# Home Haunt Insurance? Liability?



## lewlew (Mar 15, 2006)

I apologize if this topic is discussed elsewhere on the forum. I did a search but didn't find much discussion on the subject.

Was talking with our insurance agent last night and the subject of liability insurance for our haunt came up. We only run our home haunt (Road's End) on Halloween night for a few hours and we don't accept money but have toyed with the idea of a donation jar.

He advised us that our current homeowner's policy is more than adequate to cover us as long as we don't charge for the haunt. He was a little 'iffy' about the idea of donations and whether or not we would still be covered.

Do any of you carry extra insurance for your home events? Have any of you had any bad experiences with liability issues? An additional insurance ryder isn't that expensive ($55.00 or so) but is it really necessary?

Ideas? Comments? Thanks!


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

We don't. Well also never put out a donation box. But if folks handed me money, I did take it.


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## HrdHeaded1 (Sep 20, 2007)

Ummm we don't here either.. and we don't have a donation box.. have tinkered with the idea..


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

*Risk Management*



lewlew said:


> Do any of you carry extra insurance for your home events? Have any of you had any bad experiences with liability issues? An additional insurance ryder isn't that expensive ($55.00 or so) but is it really necessary?
> 
> Ideas? Comments? Thanks!


Obviously there's always a potential liability issue when someone is on your property, but you have to assess the risk. I mean if you're really worried then don't allow trick or treaters because if they get hurt on your propery while getting their candy -you can get sued. Cripes, our sue happy society is scarier than any haunted attraction I've been to.

This topic has been discussed on other forums and the best advice I've heard is to minimize your risk by making your event safe and avoiding potential hazards. For instance, remove tripping hazards, avoid stairs, don't run electrical cords all over the place etc. The more nights, the more people, the more risk.

I have been running a walkthrough home haunt for 7 years on multiple nights, with as many as 600 people per night. We have had a couple of incidents, (panic attack, freak out) but overall nothing note worthy. We are very concerned with providing a safe environment. My experience has been that for the most part - people who come to a free (donation or no donation)home haunt are appreciative of the effort and not interested in how they can take advantage of you.

What's really interesting to me is that people who have home haunts also have Halloween Parties, but never consider insurance for those. Man, you are more likely to lose your house (especially when serving alcohol) as a result of the party. I wonder how many people had an insurance ryder for their Superbowl parties last night?


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## ZombieLoveme (Jul 6, 2007)

Most home insurance policies have neglligence coverage for invitees and tresspassers, i.e., people on your property for THEIR benefit, and you typically select the coverage. Read your policy or call your agent and have them point it out to you. It won't cover willfullness and might not cover recklessness, though, so you still have to do your best to reduce the risk of foreseeable harm. You should also determine whether the policy covers licensees, i.e., people on you your property for YOUR benefit, aka, paying customers to a home haunt.


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## lewlew (Mar 15, 2006)

GraveStalker said:


> Obviously there's always a potential liability issue when someone is on your property, but you have to assess the risk. I mean if you're really worried then don't allow trick or treaters because if they get hurt on your propery while getting their candy -you can get sued. Cripes, our sue happy society is scarier than any haunted attraction I've been to.
> 
> My experience has been that for the most part - people who come to a free (donation or no donation)home haunt are appreciative of the effort and not interested in how they can take advantage of you.


First, thank you all for your responses. I guess I always knew that there wasn't blanket protection or a silver bullet to completely protect a home haunter.

However, Gravestalker your comments have brought up two interesting points:

1. That people, for the most part, come to these events to have fun and are not interested in as you say 'taking advantage of you'.

BUT

2. In today's litigous society those same people having fun does not proclude them from suing the pants off you should they feel like it.

Although we are as careful as we can be and ALL potential hazards are minimized as much as possible, there is always that remote chance something could go wrong.

As ZL also points out there is a difference between tresspassers and invitees. We're inviting ToTer's onto the property. Despite this, our insurance agent suggests we are sufficiently covered without an additional rider. As I said before, I guess there is no perfect coverage, we just wanted the best possible. Thanks everyone for weighing in. That's what makes this place so great!


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

*Proper Context*



lewlew said:


> First, thank you all for your responses. I guess I always knew that there wasn't blanket protection or a silver bullet to completely protect a home haunter.
> 
> However, Gravestalker your comments have brought up two interesting points:
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you and want to be clear: I would not let the fact that people are there for a good time (in any way) discourage you from being properly covered/protecting yourself. When we had Halloween parties with friends and family, I was worried about the legal ramifications if someone got hurt - Especially, with alcohol involved. My point was more toward assessing risk.

Obviously, there's always a chance something can go wrong and by scaring/startling people you are increasing that risk. But, you can help minimize this risk by not scaring them in locations where they're likely to get hurt. (ie on stairs, slippery/muddy areas)

Insurance is critical, but planning your event safely is equally important.


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

From another angle, Get an LLC. Buy all your props and stuff through it (tax write off). If they sue, they will go after your LLC that is broke. Not a lawyer but I know this is how a lot of other business setup. Ask around....In Nevada, you can do it yourself online. You may want to check your state standards.


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## lewlew (Mar 15, 2006)

tonquesandwich said:


> From another angle, Get an LLC. Buy all your props and stuff through it (tax write off). If they sue, they will go after your LLC that is broke. Not a lawyer but I know this is how a lot of other business setup. Ask around....In Nevada, you can do it yourself online. You may want to check your state standards.


The only problem with an LLC is that here in Pennsylvania we have a franchise tax. It's based on the revenue invested into the LLC. The more in the more you pay out.:finger::zombie: I'm no lawyer either, but it looks like without the franchise tax that might be the way to go.


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

*Llc*

This is true about an LLC, but I believe that the property owner is still liable and will be the next one on the sue list.


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

If the homeowner is the LLC....? I don't think you can go after personal property, the whole idea of a LLC. I know that many lawyers hate LLC's and won't even consider the case. Again I am not lawyer. I have 2 LLC for my fitness companies and I will make a third for the haunting end by Halloween. My neighbor buys apartment complexes and for every 3 she gets, she gets a new LLC. She also uses a PO Box for the LLCs so if she does get served it is a beast for anyone to do it. Many folks used to do Corp S, until the LLC laws came out. The protection from Liability seems to be very popular over the tax benefits of the S. Again, this is not my area.... but it maybe something to look at.


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

Nevada does not have that tax and we don't have a state tax....so I may be way off base for you in other states.


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

tonguesandwich said:


> If the homeowner is the LLC....? I don't think you can go after personal property, the whole idea of a LLC. I know that many lawyers hate LLC's and won't even consider the case. Again I am not lawyer. I have 2 LLC for my fitness companies and I will make a third for the haunting end by Halloween. My neighbor buys apartment complexes and for every 3 she gets, she gets a new LLC. She also uses a PO Box for the LLCs so if she does get served it is a beast for anyone to do it. Many folks used to do Corp S, until the LLC laws came out. The protection from Liability seems to be very popular over the tax benefits of the S. Again, this is not my area.... but it maybe something to look at.


I'm certainly no expert. I am not a lawyer or insurance agent either, but I do operate a LLC. I agree the LLC creates seperation between business and person/owner, but I think the tricky part is that the property you are operating on is the person's and therefore; can be liable. I would check with an attorney to be sure.

Also, I think by considering your home haunt a business you will now become subject to business permits, rules and regs.

Here in CT we pay a flat "existence tax" $300/yr for the LLC which is better than what PA has but not as nice as NV.


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

You would be very surprised how many businesses in Nevada do not have business licenses, even in commercial zones. My old job, we didn't even ask or care. We did close one because the person set up a Mexican restaurant in his very small apartment.....D'OH! It was packed.
I guess I have gotten off topic.....yikes!
Nevada is a different world....


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

Man, are you lucky! In CT, they'll bust you for selling flowers on the side of the road without license/tax reg. 

The thought of a Mexican joint operating in an apartment -cracks me up!!!:googly:


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## beelce (Jul 21, 2007)

I have a six acre haunt/party...we have about 200 friends and family show up for the one night blow out. I always worry myself sick about making things safe, but I don't worry about extra insurance. Just got to hope that my attendies will be careful and not come after me if something goes wrong. 

As far as an LLC goes I would think that it may ad a layer of protection, but it's not a superman cape.


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