# Mass produced props...



## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

I just saw a glue gun web shooter being mass produced now...

I have mixed feelings.  I mean it's nice that this is offered as a complete system I guess - and if I had money I might even buy it due to time constraints... but my frustration goes further than that...it's just that it seems whenever home haunters get creative ideas and pass it around between themselves, the mass producing companies get their hands on it, copy it and turn it into some money making toy available to the general public so it isn't special anymore...

This is in no way aimed at the stores selling the products. Heck, they have to make a living and keep ahead of others. It's just that...ah heck...even FCG's are now being massed produced in crappy quantities.

Does this bother anyone else? Is this a good thing?


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Actually, the one that I'm selling, is being produced by a family.
One dad and 2 sons. They decided to invest on a chance to put one on the store shelf.
They seem to be really nice folks.

It sure doesn't stop anyone from making their own by any means.
Heck i don't own one. Really don't see any need.
I've been using a gun and compressor since '99. Actually it's more convenient to have them separate.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Jeff, my post is not meant to disrespect you or your business. In fact, you are what I consider a concientious (sp?) seller, meaning you don't try to suck us out of every last penny by overpricing stuff and you actually try to _help _the haunter. 

I'm sure the family team that is doing the webgun are very nice people and I am a little relieved to know it isn't on store shelves yet.

I guess I kind of look at haunting as a type of magic. Once people know the secrets and it becomes general knowledge through toys, it isn't special anymore.

That with the added frustration of letting legitamate haunters work out the bugs of a prop, seeing it become popular and then having the companies decide that there's money to be made in it.

I guess I can't stop progress though, huh?


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## Troy (Oct 14, 2006)

Sickie Ickie said:


> Jeff, my post is not meant to disrespect you or your business. *In fact, you are what I consider a concientious (sp?) seller*, meaning you don't try to suck us out of every last penny by overpricing stuff and you actually try to _help _the haunter.
> 
> I'm sure the family team that is doing the webgun are very nice people and I am a little relieved to know it isn't on store shelves yet.
> 
> ...


No he's not, he held back a Boris that I could have had..j/k


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

No problem Sickie and I didn't take it that way.
I was just pointing out about these particular folks.
And the thing about progress, well you have to keep on top of your game! lol
I have to do it every year with different packages. If it works, someone else will copy it the following week...
And thanks for the compliment, now would you kindly hand over your Credit Card! LOL


Sickie Ickie said:


> Jeff, my post is not meant to disrespect you or your business. In fact, you are what I consider a concientious (sp?) seller, meaning you don't try to suck us out of every last penny by overpricing stuff and you actually try to _help _the haunter.
> 
> I'm sure the family team that is doing the webgun are very nice people and I am a little relieved to know it isn't on store shelves yet.
> 
> ...


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Troy said:


> No he's not, he held back a Boris that I could have had..j/k


He'll be yours Troy if I ever find his skull cap and screws!!


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## ScareFX (Aug 18, 2004)

There was a similar thread last fall with some nice observations.
http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=3630


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

ScareFX said:


> There was a similar thread last fall with some nice observations.
> http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=3630


I remember that.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Sickie Ickie said:


> I guess I kind of look at haunting as a type of magic. Once people know the secrets and it becomes general knowledge through toys, it isn't special anymore.


Agreed, SI. I make virtually everything in my yard haunt and the kids love it. Their parents comment that they haven't seen anything like my props before, and want to know where I got them. I point to the garage.


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## strange1 (Mar 12, 2006)

To me having a father and his sons make web shooters is great, but a company mass producing them is another.

If the "Tricks of the trade" are put out on shelves for everyone to see, will it take away some of the magic.
To me its like a magician showing how his illusion is done, it takes the magic out of it if everyone knows how it is done.
Its the not knowing that captures the imagation.(sp)

I'm not too worried though, I have seen a lot of props on this and the other site that would put the store bought stuff to shame.


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## BuriedAlive (Jun 8, 2006)

Yeah, the whole magician revealing his tricks analogy is accurate. If you know how something is done, the mysticism is gone. But the same can be said to any of us here. I know when I go into haunted houses I'm not only enjoying the moment, but also thinking..."I know how that props works..." or "I wonder how they did that" while most people not into prop building just take an animated prop at face value.
As for the mass marketing, it's inevitable. Anytime something grows in popularity, or somebody proposes an idea that is enjoying some form of cult following, it gets packaged and shipped to the mainstream. I recall being in Party City last year and seeing a "Flying Crank Ghost" boxed and on the shelves. It was no Phantasmechanics rig by any means, but rather a cutesy, weak powered, watered down version. If the prop had any other name I probably wouldn't have minded so much, but the fact that the company actually named it the Flying Crank Ghost left me rather annoyed. To us, there is only one FCG, no matter how many different ways by different prop builders it's built by. It is the original! But I'd hate to think at some point in the future I may be talking to somebody and mention my Flying Crank Ghost and have them reply with "Oh yeah, I was going to buy that same one at Party City".


OK, I'm stepping off the soapbox now.


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## randyaz (May 26, 2006)

...My turn

I guess its a sword that cuts both ways. A few years ago there were discussions on a forum where alot of the big dogs of pro prop makers shared their creations...to a degree. 

Seems some of them got very upset when their creations were seen at tradeshows and then turned up on the internet...reverse engineered by home haunters. 

Members were chastised and treated badly for revealing prop mechanisms... like a magician revealing how a trick is preformed. You dont see those guys around on the net anymore. They are being innovative and guarding their methods so they can produce and make a living.

Most all of the props we make are "copies" of others inginuity. We just apply our own twist. I dont think its a bad thing or that we should feel bad for figuring out how they did it and making our homegrown version. We love to tinker and make what we see in our minds eye. 

Just as we are not likely to buy a pro prop there are those who are not likely to make anything for themselves. At least these folks are buying the off the shelf stuff and keeping halloween alive...


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## IshWitch (May 31, 2006)

Sickie Ickie said:


> I guess I kind of look at haunting as a type of magic. Once people know the secrets and it becomes general knowledge through toys, it isn't special anymore.


You have gotten in my head! That is so how I think and feel about it!


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Isn't that why MoM went private?


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

It's a relief to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way...


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Dr Morbius said:


> Isn't that why MoM went private?


I was wondering why there seemed to be no recent posts over there. Did MoM go "pro only" or something like that?

PS - Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, just curious.


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Otaku said:


> I was wondering why there seemed to be no recent posts over there. Did MoM go "pro only" or something like that?
> 
> PS - Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, just curious.


I was just on the phone to someone about this the other day.
I'll see if I can find it in my favorites folder and then i'll post it.

Steve Hickman started it all over.


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Wow, a couple of hot topics going on here I agree that once a prop or effect goes "Mainstream" it's over for me. As an example, I bought a few changing portraits when they first came out. Everybody was amazed, loved them. Now 3 years later you can buy them at Walmart. I'll never buy a changing portrait of any kind again for my haunt. The magic is gone. I am always amazed when I see people posting how they wish they could buy better props at local stores. Why? you won't be buying anything special. 
Yeah it's more work to find props and such on line. To hunt down good props at an affordable price. You are paying more than you would at a local store and it's a bit of work but at least you have something that is unique.

I have heard that there were some issues between certain pro prop companies and some of us that were reverse engineering the workings of animations. I never had any trouble. My opinion is this, if someone has the tools to cut, drill and weld steel, the ability to use those tools, a working knowledge of pneumatics and controllers. That person is simply not going to buy animation. Hiding the mechanism won't matter. If I can build it, I am never going to buy it. It's the same with every haunter on every level. If you can do it yourself, you will. We buy what we can't make ourselves. We use our talents to build what we can, and only part with money for the things we just can't make ourselves.

As for the MoM forum, It didn't go pro. I know a lot of what happened there. The idea was that there are a million forums for beginner and intermediate prop building. The people who own and run the original Methodz wanted a forum for advanced prop building discussions. The reason was not to be snooty or shut people out, it was to raise the bar even higher and create better and more amazing things. A lot of people got angry about it and didn't like the idea of restricting posting only to people who have attained a certain level. I can see how it would seem like it is keeping people out. Actually, it isn't the case. A lot of us talk off list about various designs and such. Really, I could chat with a half dozen people I know privately and get any info. I need. I guess I am saying, that if they wanted to keep people out, they could have just started an underground forum. But that would not attract new people with new ideas. Anyway, Steve Hickman started MoM but didn't own it, run it or as far as I could see, even participate in it. He caught wind of the proposed changes and started a second forum. The original forum has since suffered from severe neglect. It has been months since some of the moderators have logged on, some people seem to have disappeared. I can tell you that there are some extremely talented prop makers who used to post there. I can't find them anywhere now. I wish that the changes would have worked. Having an exclusively advanced forum would have been interesting and would have been a great creative stage we all would benefit from. I guess we will have to see if it will be ressurected.

Man I am really putting it out there for the new guy around here, hope I'm not talking too much!


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Not at all Jim.
Speaking of some awesome talents, did you see Joe Stone or Brent Ross a few weekends ago. My time as short and I missed quite a few folks, including you!


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey Jeff! I was unable to attend TW because of work and family obligations. I have not heard from Joe in quite some time. I will likely try to email him soon.
I am looking forward to attending other gatherings/shows this year since I missed TW. which would you recommend? I am considering HauntCon, Midwest haunters, IronStock......


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

All good choices. Depends on what you want from the shows. They all have their niche.
I'll be going to all 3, but likely vendoring at MidWest and IronStock.
BTW, do you have the link to Steve's forum?

And if you haven't check the build contest yet, you should take a look.
You just need to get your posts up and then toss your hat into the ring!


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Steve's forum is at
http://www.methodzofmadness.org/
It's a very good forum for prop building. I have lots of friends there, some who I actually get together with in the off season to do projects, kick ideas around, have a few beers or all of the above.

For haunt shows, I would be most interested in vendors like Unit-70 and such. Also meeting more people from this and other forums, less interested in seminars but I might take in one or two.

what build contest is that? which topic is it under?


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

He's refering to the current 20dollar prop challenge:
http://www.hauntforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40
There is usually a build contest going on here. Check out the archive!:
http://www.hauntforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the links! I'll have to check out the contests. What a great idea.


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## GraveDiggerGreg (Nov 12, 2006)

on cheap knock offs at the store... I love it... how else would I get the tear into a $5 fogger from walmart instead of a $400 buck pro model? or corpes a buckly? have a thunder flashing lightening, that walmat lightening made a great hearbeat.light in a prop , Heck even the security motion sensor is a knock off from something that was expensive and only offered to professionals. I coud keep going, but the knock off stuff, has given me access to tons of technology (audicity) to improve on which I never would have had before. 

I might even consider a prop1 a cheap knock off of a dedicated computer... HMMM...


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

I don't think electronics is the same thing. It isn't a haunted house/Halloween exclusive product. Cheap foggers are ok. I bought a fogger a couple years before they were available everywhere. It cost me about $115.00, not $400.00. It lasted much longer than the $50.00 dept. store models.

You can corpse a Blucky and make it better, sure. It won't resemble at all what it looked like when you bought it. My point is not that I am against cheaper products. My point is that if my haunt looks like the Halloween isle at wal-mart it's not going to impress anyone. Even if the props look great, everyone will have seen them 50 times already before they come to my haunt. I would rather buy things that the average person has never seen, whether it's an expensive prop or a cheap prop.
I think the discussion was more about haunt props and effects going mainstream, not about the price.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Correct, Brckee1. I think the only way to stay ahead of the knockoffs is to keep coming up with new ideas..so they can copy them...oh the circle of hell is complete.


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## slimy (Jul 12, 2006)

Speaking of reverse engineering and knock offs, Brckee, your job is to reverse engineer your plant monster prop and be able to have me reproduce it for $20.

That way you would win the contest and I could own one. See, everybody wins.


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