# My 3 axis skull



## spinman1949

Well it isn't pretty but I promised a video. Need work on the VSA.

My goal was to create a 3 axis skull that would meet the following goals.

1. No components are connected to the skull.
2. The mechanism is removable as one unit, including the eyes. ( Still working on them)
3. Range of motion that mimics actual human. Got close on this, but tall order.
4. Sturdy and bullet proof. So far so good.

Anyway here it is so far.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6w5obJNc_Y[/nomedia]


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## Dr Morbius

Cool! Range of motion is better than mine...care to show the guts?


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## Lunatic

Wow, I'm impressed Spinman. Nice job! Did you build it from scratch?


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## spinman1949

Dr Morbius said:


> Cool! Range of motion is better than mine...care to show the guts?


Well Doc !

Your work and others inspired me. Let me think on the guts. It isn't like anything I have seen so far, so I am wondering if I should go for a patent.

I actually have an even better design in mind that will reduce the amount of skull removal.

I am working on a new eye design which is pretty much kicking my butt so far, but if I get it to work, it will be really cool.


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## spinman1949

*Scratch ?*



Lunatic said:


> Wow, I'm impressed Spinman. Nice job! Did you build it from scratch?


Boy can you say that. The only component similiar to most designs are the servo's.


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## diecastman71

You all are pushing me to try one of these. They are so cool. Let me see Nov. 1 should be my new start date for Halloween 2010.


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## Lunatic

Scratch? What I meant is did you use an electronic kit or create it from the ground up?


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## hpropman

Really nice work Spinman!


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## spinman1949

*My Design.*



Lunatic said:


> Scratch? What I meant is did you use an electronic kit or create it from the ground up?


Ground up. Totally hand made.

Ok I guess I can forget the patent. Too much fun to share. I will post a video of the works sometime soon.

Oh and wait until you see my eye design. Anyone care to figure out how to control 2 axis eyes with only one control arm ? I have the mechanism set, now I just need to mount the servo's.


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## Mr_Chicken

I'm REALLY curious about this


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## spinman1949

*Posting video to YouTube right now.*

The video will be up soon. Hope you like the design. It is different.


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## Dr Morbius

I await with baited breath...oh wait, that's my breath. It smells like bait. (Had a fish taco...The TORTILLA KIND!! Jeesh.)


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## spinman1949

*Taking forever.*

I looped the VSA so I could show different angles. I think the video is too large. I may have to take again.

Oh I intend I removing quite a bit of weight which should reduce the bounce.

I am also considering mounting a leaf spring under the nod mechanism. Like a heavy feeler guage. When you see the video you will see where I intend on placing it. There is a heavy brace that will work well as as pressure point.

I am going to go do the video again.


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## spinman1949

*Here is video.*

Definetly going to work on the bounce.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oNqv_-rzbM[/nomedia]


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## Dr Morbius

Wow! Original design, I've never seen one like it. Very innovative!


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## fritz42_male

Looks to me as if you started with the premise that unlike the other kits you didn't want to build it INTO the skull but to get the motion right and then make sure you could fit the skull around it?

Whatever you did it's VERY impressive!

Are those 1/4 scale servos for the main axis movements?


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## turtle2778

Excellent!! You should really think about patenting that. You can still share it, but at least you wont get ripped off when the Gemmy people see and it and incorporate it into something stupid.


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## spinman1949

*Just 425BB*



fritz42_male said:


> Looks to me as if you started with the premise that unlike the other kits you didn't want to build it INTO the skull but to get the motion right and then make sure you could fit the skull around it?
> 
> Whatever you did it's VERY impressive!
> 
> Are those 1/4 scale servos for the main axis movements?


Exactly the premise. I wanted the unit to be a complete mechanism without the skull being part of the design.

I did use a 77BB Hitec for the rotation servo to keep the profile lower, but the tilt is a 425 BB I do have a 475HB, just in case.


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## fritz42_male

spinman1949 said:


> Exactly the premise. I wanted the unit to be a complete mechanism without the skull being part of the design.


Of course this means that you aren't just stuck with a skull - you can use rubber masks or whatever as well!


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## spinman1949

*Add on*



fritz42_male said:


> Of course this means that you aren't just stuck with a skull - you can use rubber masks or whatever as well!


My thoughts exactly.

Make a mechanism that allows for modules to be added if necessary, and make it adaptable.

My next design will hopefully reduce the imbalance and cut down on the amount of material that must be removed from the base of the skull to allow for the range of motion I engineered into the mechanism.


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## hpropman

Very Cool! I love the design very creative


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## spinman1949

*Thx*



hpropman said:


> Very Cool! I love the design very creative


I appreciate the recognition.


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## DarkLore

spinman1949 said:


> Ground up. Totally hand made.
> 
> Ok I guess I can forget the patent. Too much fun to share. I will post a video of the works sometime soon.
> 
> Oh and wait until you see my eye design. Anyone care to figure out how to control 2 axis eyes with only one control arm ? I have the mechanism set, now I just need to mount the servo's.


I think the patent thing goes out the window when you throw images into the public domain (forum).

Nice movement and range. Looks great.


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## spinman1949

*Patent*

Oh I could still apply, but TBQH it really is not my thing. Too much work. I would rather spend the time figuring out how to do stuff in new and innovative ways. Much more fun to share and see who can improve on my ideas. Or for that matter how I can improve on others ideas as well. That is why I like this forum. Now the people who make a living at this? I can understand protecting their work. Maybe when I retire I will do some business as a prop builder. Still have to convince the wife I need that lathe and mill though.


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## spinman1949

*2 axis eyes*

Ok

Still working on my 2 axis eyes. I have the mechanism now designed to my satisfaction. I honestly think this is a design that may warrant a patent.

Here are the features.

1. Overall depth including eyes and servos. 2.25 inches.
2. Unit is self contained. A module that could be mounted in many applications.
3. Smooth and even motion.
4. 90 degree up / down and left / right range of motion.
5. Single arm motion control. 
6. Inexpensive to produce. Uses Dial Deodorant balls, but other eyes could be used.
7. Led's could be added to eyes.
8. One negative. Design pretty much rules out eyelids.

So here is my dilemna. I am terrible at writing and all the crud you need to do to apply for a patent. So if anyone is interested in helping me, then I will be happy to share the patent. Naturally this time around I will not be showing the mechanism. Once I get it completed I will show a video with the mechanism hidden.

So anyone want to help me ?


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## DarkLore

I don't need any share of a patent. But, I'll help you diagram, draw, and detail the project.


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## spinman1949

*Thx*



DarkLore said:


> I don't need any share of a patent. But, I'll help you diagram, draw, and detail the project.


That is very nice of you to offer. Once I have the complete unit done, I will do an open forum video with the mechanism hidden. If it is received with interest, then I will work with you on providing the details of the design. TBQH it is actually pretty simple in design. The idea came to me in the most unexpected place.


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## spinman1949

*2 axis eye video*

As promised here is a video of my 2 axis eye design mounted in the skull. Hopefully with Darklore help I can apply for a patent. Once that is pending I will release the design. It is built entirely with Dial Roll on Deodorant and Acrylic sheet. Of course there are a few special parts involved. Next maybe not this year, I will try to mount led's for the eyes. The unit is independant of the balance of my 3 axis design although it does mount to the jaw plate and is adjustable to deal with the odd eye levels these skulls provide. In this video the eyes are a bit low in the socket. Oh and the eyes are a bit off center and a tad high at neutral. All very adjustable via mechanical or program adjustment. I also can get a bit more side to side motion with some minor mods.


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## Mr_Chicken

impressive range of motion! I certainly hope this clears the patent office soon, as I'd really like to see your mechanism...might be something I'd like to integrate into my 3-axis Frankenstein or zombie next year


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## spinman1949

*Thx Chicken*

Just completed it today, so next I need to hook up with Darklore. Likely after Halloween. I have never applied for a patent before. I have been working on a cool portable bike for years. Someday I hope to complete it as well.


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## fritz42_male

Can I just throw out a word of warning. Please research any possible existing patents for this type of thing carefully and make sure your design is unique enough to withstand close scrutiny - there are lawyers out there who make a living from agressively targeting people such as yourself with false 'patent infringment' claims.

Also, document your design thoroughly and lodge it with a bank, dated and timed and signed by the bank manager. This establishes a copyright on the design as opposed to a patent. You don't have to publish it, merely the fact that it exists and has been lodged somewhere establishes copyright. 

I'm not a lawyer so it may be worth getting expert help. Darklore may have considerably more experience than me on such things.


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## spinman1949

*Thx for the advice.*



fritz42_male said:


> Can I just throw out a word of warning. Please research any possible existing patents for this type of thing carefully and make sure your design is unique enough to withstand close scrutiny - there are lawyers out there who make a living from agressively targeting people such as yourself with false 'patent infringment' claims.
> 
> Also, document your design thoroughly and lodge it with a bank, dated and timed and signed by the bank manager. This establishes a copyright on the design as opposed to a patent. You don't have to publish it, merely the fact that it exists and has been lodged somewhere establishes copyright.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer so it may be worth getting expert help. Darklore may have considerably more experience than me on such things.


What did Shakesphere say ? Kill all the Lawyers. No offense intended to any members of the bar.

It is very helpful re the copyright issue. Plus I will be deligent about the patent infirngement issue.

I appreciate any help I can get. I am kind of a gullible sole, so it helps to have folks watchin out for me.


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## spinman1949

*Little update.*

I decided to change the gear ratio on the nod servo. Now instead of 1 to 1, it is now about 1 X 2.2. This has improved the load factor on this servo, yet I still have the nearly 90 degree nod. The only other thing I am considering is placing a piano wire counter spring in the nod and the jaw. I also am going to change the gears in the jaw servo from metal to nylon in hopes it will be a bit quieter. The eye movement noise has reduced a bunch, yet one of the two servos is a growler. I may change it.


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## MonkeyBasic

Hey Spin, Very cool. Great job on this! Do you think this will fit into a Lindberg skull eventually? Keep us updated.


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## spinman1949

*3 axis or 2 axis eyes?*



MonkeyBasic said:


> Hey Spin, Very cool. Great job on this! Do you think this will fit into a Lindberg skull eventually? Keep us updated.


The current 3 axis requires a large portion of the lower skull be removed to allow for the high degree's of motion the unit provides. The actual space used internally is likely much less than the current plate designs. The only concern I have is the distance from the pivot plate to the front of the skull. My newer design under development will hopefully reduce the amount of material removed and move the pivot plate further back, which should also help the balance. If my thinking is correct I may be able to nearly achieve zero balance at horizontal position.

As far as the 2 axis eyes? Well the overall dimension of the fully working unit including eyes and mechanism is about 3 X 3 X 4 the 4 being the width of the eyes and sockets. So since I don't have a Lindberg skull, I will have to let you decide.

Oh and next year, I expect to be drawing on your knowledge and software. Hopefully I can do a multi skull and or pumpkin routine.


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## spinman1949

*Gonna show the 2 axis.*

I decided to ask the experts over at the Effects Lab. The response was low and TBQH the basic premise was that 2 axis eyes have been done a multitude of ways, and even these guys who create some pretty incredible stuff don't patent designs.

So I am shelving the patent issue and now everyone can see my design. It should be up on YouTube in a few minutes. I will post the link here.

It really is stupidly simple.


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## MonkeyBasic

Oh well. I think in the long run you'll save yourself some time, money and aggravation.

Can't wait to see!


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## spinman1949

*Here it is.*

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGs9ED6F8Sk[/nomedia]


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## MonkeyBasic

You are right. Very clean and simple... What is the white plastic piece in front from?


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## spinman1949

*Plastic*



MonkeyBasic said:


> You are right. Very clean and simple... What is the white plastic piece in front from?


It's acrylic sheet. 1.25 hole saw is perfect for the inserts from a dial roll-on deodorant. The tricky part is capturing the eyes in such a narrow area,


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## Mr_Chicken

Looks great!


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## graveyardmadness

Incredible and great job. I agree with the statement about securing a patent and "blood sucking" lawyers. I already received one letter regarding our patent on the new 3-axis design and how we may be infringing (even after a costly patent search - $2,000). I won't do it again. And the advance you received about multiple eye movement kits - over +400 designs at the patent office. The new design were working on we won't secure the patent or even attempt to copyright it.

Again, great job!!!

Joel 
www.graveyardskulls.com


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## spinman1949

graveyardmadness said:


> Incredible and great job. I agree with the statement about securing a patent and "blood sucking" lawyers. I already received one letter regarding our patent on the new 3-axis design and how we may be infringing (even after a costly patent search - $2,000). I won't do it again. And the advance you received about multiple eye movement kits - over +400 designs at the patent office. The new design were working on we won't secure the patent or even attempt to copyright it.
> 
> Again, great job!!!
> 
> Joel
> www.graveyardskulls.com


Thx for the kudo. Coming from you means a lot. It does appear that patents on these items are likely a waste of time.

I find it very interesting that your design is being challenged. And what I also find interesting. I did a patent search for 2 axis eyes and got no results. You say there are more than 400 patents for 2 axis eyes? What are they listed under?


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## hpropman

Nice and simple great job! Can we please see more of it. Can we see the back to see how the arms attach to the deodorant balls. This month's Nuts and volts magazine used the same concept to make a prop dropper. One servo (continuous) would wind up the cord back up and the other would tip it over so that the cord would fall off the spool.


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## spinman1949

hpropman said:


> Nice and simple great job! Can we please see more of it. Can we see the back to see how the arms attach to the deodorant balls. This month's Nuts and volts magazine used the same concept to make a prop dropper. One server (continuous) would wind up the cord back up and the other would tip it over so that the cord would fall off the spool.


Thx Propman,

Sure I will take more video from behind. The connection to is pretty basic. 1/4 thick aluminum tube threaded to screw into the eyeball. Then 2-56 ball links on each side spaced to increase clearance. I used the screw through type, not the pop on like you see on the actuator arm. When I tap the eyeball, I don't complete the tap all the way. This makes for a good tight fit. It's a bit tricky getting the tap straight. I figure one of you more experienced can figure out a jig to make this easier.


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## spinman1949

*More video of unit.*

Here are some more video's from different angles.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptPNnO3Ndgk[/nomedia]

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efY825d6Zi0[/nomedia]

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxtILHDjGEU[/nomedia]

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrPxHvjt-sU[/nomedia]

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z37Iqyczsak[/nomedia]


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## Dr Morbius

What did or how did you make that eye bracket? That thing, the whole mech, is a work of art!


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## fritz42_male

What are the kits likely to cost? I'd like to get some for next years projects


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## hpropman

very nice thanks for the update!


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## spinman1949

*Many thanks.*



Dr Morbius said:


> What did or how did you make that eye bracket? That thing, the whole mech, is a work of art!


Doc,

You honor me Sir !

The eye bracket is acrylic sheet. I used a 1.25 inch hole saw that I ground the circumference just a tad. This then perfectly fits the dial roll on. I used nylon 4/40 screws to locate the eyebaLL just past the high point of the eyeball. That is how I got it so narrow. The entire unit is made out of acrylic. Lots of nasty and dusty grinding. My wife is getting just a tad tired of all the plastic dust I keep tracking back into the house. LOL !!

Fritz,

As far as a kit? Well hopefully I can hook up with Artist early next year and we can CNC the parts. I will be working on improving the design in the meantime. If I can get enough articulation in the ball joint, I may be able to lower the servos, which will allow me to reduce the depth of the unit. I built this entirely with a drill press, scroll saw and a whole bunch of grinding. It is the grinding I hope to escape. The center unit is made of Delrin. This stuff is not easy to work with. I may use acrylic instead. The Delrin does have low friction, but a brass insert would probably do just as well. After Halloween, I will take the unit apart and take pictures so everyone can see how it is constructed. I like the idea of the kit though. Also I plan on doing a version for paintings. This version will have the servos mounted above and reversed with a longer control arm. I hope the longer arrm will not cause problems. Got a feeling it will have to be titanium to reduce mass.


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## fritz42_male

As regards the Delrin have you thought of using Nylon chopping boards? easy to get, almost as easy as acrylic to cut and very cheap as well as nice n slick.


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## spinman1949

*Thx good idea !*

Nylon will work just as well.

I'll keep you posted on the kit idea.


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## Systematic Chaos

I bought the skulls for to make one of these a while back. I'm seriously finding it hard to fight the temptation to try my hand at one. Marvelous Job!!!


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## spinman1949

*Thx*



Systematic Chaos said:


> I bought the skulls for to make one of these a while back. I'm seriously finding it hard to fight the temptation to try my hand at one. Marvelous Job!!!


By all means build one.

I wanted to do something a bit different. I am really pleased with the 2 axis eye mechanism I designed.

I have mixed emotions about my 3 axis. I like the design, but it has some bugs I need to work out. One thing is it is very nose heavy. Plus while I like the jaw design because it is very clean, I don't like the feed back and bounce. No time to mess with it now, but I think I will experiment with a dampener on the nod servo to reduce this.

Regardless,

The joy in building a 3 axis skull regardless of the design is well worth it, so go for it and keep us posted on your progress please.


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## 5artist5

That is looking great spinman! I also like the idea about the paintings version. 
Where are you doing the grinding that you are looking to avoid?
I actually like working with delrin, it machines great.


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## Spooky1

Great job, the movement and motion is excellent.


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## spinman1949

5artist5 said:


> That is looking great spinman! I also like the idea about the paintings version.
> Where are you doing the grinding that you are looking to avoid?
> I actually like working with delrin, it machines great.


Well you and I are gonna be pals if you like Delrin. I had a heck of a time trying to cut the stuff. Course using a chop saw or a table saw always has risks. The heat warps the material. Once again the right tool helps.

As far as grinding ? Just about every piece of the pivot plate, jaw plate, and 2 axis eye mechanism is ground to the resulting shape to cut down on weight. CNC would make short order of this. I am hoping you will want to partner with me. I am not looking to make a bunch of money by the way. If you are willling we can do the kits for the cost of the material. I would need you to do the basic parts including holes. I can do the tapping and the custom hardware work including the eye sockets. Maybe a small charge for our time?

What I would like to tackle first is the 2 axis eye mechanism. I think it will be a big hit for all kinds of props. As you can see the servo's can be mounted just about anywhere. Above would work well for a painting. May have to design a bit different actuator pivot. I have ideas re that.


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## Atom058

Spinman - First, that is truly an awesome job. I am very impressed and you should be very proud of your work! Second, have you considered having your parts laser-cut? I build a lot of prototype equipment and found someone (an engraver) locally who had a laser-cutter. I just draw my parts using a cad program, email the drawing to him and he calls me when the parts are ready (less than a day turn-around). Look in your phone book for engraving businesses and see if they use a laser-engraver. It will cut most plastics up to 1/2" thick. I use TurboCAD (Ebay for < $20) for my drawings, save them as DXF's, and they import them into CorelDraw for their cutter. Works great! If I can help out, just let me know. Again, great work!!! Jeff


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## Dr Morbius

spinman1949 said:


> I have mixed emotions about my 3 axis. I like the design, but it has some bugs I need to work out. One thing is it is very nose heavy. Plus while I like the jaw design because it is very clean, I don't like the feed back and bounce. No time to mess with it now, but I think I will experiment with a dampener on the nod servo to reduce this.


Spinman, have you tried using a spring in the back of the mech near the neck? I have used them and they work great for counter balancing. I find a whole selection of specialty springs in the hardware store and find type C29 to be the perfect temper.


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## spinman1949

Atom058 said:


> Spinman - First, that is truly an awesome job. I am very impressed and you should be very proud of your work! Second, have you considered having your parts laser-cut? I build a lot of prototype equipment and found someone (an engraver) locally who had a laser-cutter. I just draw my parts using a cad program, email the drawing to him and he calls me when the parts are ready (less than a day turn-around). Look in your phone book for engraving businesses and see if they use a laser-engraver. It will cut most plastics up to 1/2" thick. I use TurboCAD (Ebay for < $20) for my drawings, save them as DXF's, and they import them into CorelDraw for their cutter. Works great! If I can help out, just let me know. Again, great work!!! Jeff


When I start on the next design, you can be sure I will happily accept any help I can get. My next idea will hopefully reduce the amount of material removel from the base of the skull.


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## spinman1949

*Design cahllenge*



Dr Morbius said:


> Spinman, have you tried using a spring in the back of the mech near the neck? I have used them and they work great for counter balancing. I find a whole selection of specialty springs in the hardware store and find type C29 to be the perfect temper.


Thx Doc,

One thing I discovered with my design, is that it has it's own built in restrictions. For instance, if you notice the nod movement, the travel is considerable. What I am thinking of trying is a coil of piano wire around the pivot shaft. One end captured in the rotation plate and the other in a nylon insert in the tilt servo plate. I should be able to set the tension so it is light at full upwards nod and at it's highest at full downward nod. Another idea was to place a leaf spring. Likely made from a feeler guage in the middle of the pivit area. A coil spring would work as well, but I just cant find the room to put it.


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## spinman1949

*The Greeter Ghoul is done !!*

Here is a video of this labor of love and a fair amount of frustration. All in all we are pretty happy with the results.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k46YWncEP8o[/nomedia]


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## Dr Morbius

HA! looks great!


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## fritz42_male

Both the skull and eye movements are superb - best I've seen.

However if I may offer some constructive criticism, the colour changing eyes detract from the whole thing and make it seem really fake - dare I say cheap n nasty.


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## spinman1949

fritz42_male said:


> Both the skull and eye movements are superb - best I've seen.
> 
> However if I may offer some constructive criticism, the colour changing eyes detract from the whole thing and make it seem really fake - dare I say cheap n nasty.


Fritz,

Like Doc, I used the 3 color led units that come with the skull. Doc I believe uses only one and likely provides a more even and overall color change compared to my nearly headlight approach with each eye receiving its own unit. I totally agree with you. I thought the effect would be cool, but it actually reduces the effect. If I have time I may replace the multi color with one color and clear. I am thinking red or yellow. What do you think?


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## spinman1949

*Led pro's*

Oh and if anyone is out there that can help. The 3 color led units appear to have led's that are clear yet they put out three different colors. So is this controlled by the logic in the circuit? I have some static clear units I can adapt. Not a lot of room, but I might be able to put a colored lense over them. They are 12 volt units and are even pretty bright on 7.2 volts.


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## fritz42_male

As a Terry Pratchett fan, I would have to say that an actinic blue/white would be the correct way to go but for me I think a subtle red glow would be best. I power my cheap foam skulls with ordinary red LEDs at 3V - they are meant to run at 4.5 so the output is less than normal and really good in a moderately dark environment. I hot glued over mine so the output is diffuse but your eyes would do the same as they are.

As far as the colour changing is concerned, if there are only 2 wires to the LED then the colour change logic is built into the LED itself so to stop the colour change, you will have to swap out the LEDs.


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## samhayne

Look awesome !!


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## spinman1949

fritz42_male said:


> As a Terry Pratchett fan, I would have to say that an actinic blue/white would be the correct way to go but for me I think a subtle red glow would be best. I power my cheap foam skulls with ordinary red LEDs at 3V - they are meant to run at 4.5 so the output is less than normal and really good in a moderately dark environment. I hot glued over mine so the output is diffuse but your eyes would do the same as they are.
> 
> As far as the colour changing is concerned, if there are only 2 wires to the LED then the colour change logic is built into the LED itself so to stop the colour change, you will have to swap out the LEDs.


Thx Fritz,

I will pick up some led's today. Hoipefully I can get to Fry's. Better selection than the Shack.

I can do the white easy. Also thinking yellow or red as you stated.

The led's that come witrh this skull have a chip that swaps between three led's. So I am still unclear as to how they end up different colors. Likely you are correct. Perhaps each reponds to a different bias voltage and the chip provides this. Anyway running out of time so I will do the best I can.

I think I will do some mods to the routine to cut down on some of the more sudden tilt movement. Think it will look more real if I do.


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## diecastman71

The multi color leds are driven by logic. They operate by sending different voltage neg and pos to make the color change.


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## HomeyDaClown

*Love the work*

Great approach in your designs. It would be great to see a how-to on the 3 axix mech you have. I've been using the same setup for my eye mech only I use doll eyes and not roll-ons. I found that the micro servos make a nice little pan/tilt bundle.

Those Leds are commonly referred to as Rainbow Leds and have varying integral logic to change or fade colors in sequence. Not much you can do to change the logic. You may just want to get some RGB Leds to play with, then you can select the color you want and see what you like best.

I wanted to be able to change eye color and intensity via VSA without the expense of DMX so I built my own controller to run 6 servos and 2 RGB leds. It took a bit of programming but was worth the effort. It's about the size of a flash drive and runs off a USB port.


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## spinman1949

HomeyDaClown said:


> Great approach in your designs. It would be great to see a how-to on the 3 axix mech you have. I've been using the same setup for my eye mech only I use doll eyes and not roll-ons. I found that the micro servos make a nice little pan/tilt bundle.
> 
> Those Leds are commonly referred to as Rainbow Leds and have varying integral logic to change or fade colors in sequence. Not much you can do to change the logic. You may just want to get some RGB Leds to play with, then you can select the color you want and see what you like best.
> 
> I wanted to be able to change eye color and intensity via VSA without the expense of DMX so I built my own controller to run 6 servos and 2 RGB leds. It took a bit of programming but was worth the effort. It's about the size of a flash drive and runs off a USB port.


Can you show your eye mechanism ? I honestly did not think anyone had ever designed a single arm actuation unit like mine. I apologize if my claim to a first was inaccurate.


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## HomeyDaClown

spinman1949 said:


> Can you show your eye mechanism ? I honestly did not think anyone had ever designed a single arm actuation unit like mine. I apologize if my claim to a first was inaccurate.


No apologies needed, you have a unique idea there and your mech is well thought out and gives more than adequate rotation in both axes. I spent over two years researching and trying just about every variation out there from universal joints to parallelogram mechs, even an 8 wire setup to mimic real eye muscles. I just focused on simplifying the basic E bar setup. I ended up epoxying two micros together and using doll half eyes (I like the way they look) with threaded rods. My trick is in mounting the eye rods, I heat and bend ball swivel shafts to 45 degrees to allow the eyes to rotate up and back.


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## spinman1949

*No problem.*



HomeyDaClown said:


> No apologies needed, you have a unique idea there and your mech is well thought out and gives more than adequate rotation in both axes. I spent over two years researching and trying just about every variation out there from universal joints to parallelogram mechs, even an 8 wire setup to mimic real eye muscles. I just focused on simplifying the basic E bar setup. I ended up epoxying two micros together and using doll half eyes (I like the way they look) with threaded rods. My trick is in mounting the eye rods, I heat and bend ball swivel shafts to 45 degrees to allow the eyes to rotate up and back.


I thought about gluing the servos together, but I wanted to be able to replace one if necessary. The other thing I figured out fairly early in my design concept is what you elluded too. The limitation of mechanical joints. Especially ball joints. I found that I needed to get the X and Y axis in a horizontal position to be as close as possible to the same plane. This is the key to my design. It allows the actuator arm to travel in a nearly perfect arc. The further I got away from parallel planes, the further the articulation of the ball joint. In my improved design I intend on drilling the adjustments rods at a slight angle to gain some clearance for the ball socket pivot arms. This will require a bit more travel from the actuator arm, but I still have about 20 degrees to work with. All in all there is a lot of geometry involved which certainly taxed my brain. LOL !!!!


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## HomeyDaClown

spinman1949 said:


> I thought about gluing the servos together, but I wanted to be able to replace one if necessary. The other thing I figured out fairly early in my design concept is what you elluded too. The limitation of mechanical joints. Especially ball joints. I found that I needed to get the X and Y axis in a horizontal position to be as close as possible to the same plane. This is the key to my design. It allows the actuator arm to travel in a nearly perfect arc. The further I got away from parallel planes, the further the articulation of the ball joint. In my improved design I intend on drilling the adjustments rods at a slight angle to gain some clearance for the ball socket pivot arms. This will require a bit more travel from the actuator arm, but I still have about 20 degrees to work with. All in all there is a lot of geometry involved which certainly taxed my brain. LOL !!!!


Yeah, ask my wife about it.... Just as mentioned over at the FX Lab, once you finally get it working fine, you never stop improving the design...it's a madness. But we are all mad scientists anyway.


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## spinman1949

*Constantly improving.*

Yes I have the mental distraction of never being satisfied with anything I design. Right now I am once again trying to improve on my small pulley Axworthy. I use sliding glass door rollers and 200 lb nylon fishing line. I can use such small rollers because of the high tension I place on the line. The part that fails is the drive. Up to now I have used a small pulley with a hard reinforced rubber ring. The ring is a compression seal for plumbing. The problem has and continues to be the small amount of friction area the ring provides. So now I am trying a friction drive to a larger pulley. I thought I had the perfect pulley, but the rubber ring on it is too soft. Now I am struggling on whether to go back to the small direct drive ring or to find a hard rubber ring for the larger pulley. It's off to the famous Marshalls I go.


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## HomeyDaClown

spinman1949 said:


> Yes I have the mental distraction of never being satisfied with anything I design. Right now I am once again trying to improve on my small pulley Axworthy. I use sliding glass door rollers and 200 lb nylon fishing line. I can use such small rollers because of the high tension I place on the line. The part that fails is the drive. Up to now I have used a small pulley with a hard reinforced rubber ring. The ring is a compression seal for plumbing. The problem has and continues to be the small amount of friction area the ring provides. So now I am trying a friction drive to a larger pulley. I thought I had the perfect pulley, but the rubber ring on it is too soft. Now I am struggling on whether to go back to the small direct drive ring or to find a hard rubber ring for the larger pulley. It's off to the famous Marshalls I go.


Yep the ol Axworthy dilemma.... I know it well. My drive motor is offset and I use a sweeper belt to drive the main pulley on two smaller nylon pulleys. My main is a 12" aluminum v-belt pulley with an aluminum platter attached to act as a lip to keep the line from popping off. I've changed out my remote pulleys to boat trailer bow rollers. I found some 4" diameter ones on ebay with a deep v groove. Using bow rollers I can mount them with a small steel bar & axle & a bungee cord to just about any place.


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## Lunatic

Handsome design. Very impressive movements. That mechanical head would be the perfect addition to any prop!


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## spinman1949

*Thx*



Lunatic said:


> Handsome design. Very impressive movements. That mechanical head would be the perfect addition to any prop!


Thank you for your comment.

I have just modified the jaw with a torsion spring on the shaft and it has improved the jaw motion and effect on the balance of the prop a great deal. I believe I can fit the same kind of spring in the nod pivot as well. At some point I will do a how to, and next year I may be able to put together a relatively inexpensive kit for both the 3 axis and the eye kit.

Please offer any constructive criticism or possible design needs you can see.


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## Lunatic

Offering a kit for retail would be great. I'm sure many people here would be interested in that, including me. Sounds like a good way to help pay for your conceptual R&D.


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## spinman1949

*Final result.*

After Fritz felt the colored eyes were a bit goofy and corny, I decided to change to a single color. Actually I used some 4 led array of clear's. I cut a pill bottle and made colored lenses to turn the light yellow. The only down side is these array are actually for a car and are 12 volt based. So the lights dim and even blink out as the servos pull current. I ran out of time. I like the effect except for when they dim out completely with multiple servo movement.

Here is a video with my lighting. I used the same 4 led arrays powered by 9 volt batteries and made mini spots.

http://www.youtube.com/user/spinman1949#p/a/u/0/Y17j1IV-9wc


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## fritz42_male

That's right, blame poor old overworked underpaid Fritz!



Just wire a nice big ol' electrolytic capacitor across the positive and negative feeds to the LED's, at the very least this will give you a nice smooth fade. I use 2200uF 24V on my Cave Eyes but you may have to go bigger/higher voltage.

Nice effect though


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## spinman1949

*Thx Fritz*

I never thought of a capacitor. I was going to wire another battery in parallel to compensate, but now I see that that would not help. It was the lack of available current that causes the dimming, so a capacitor should smooth out the fade as you say.

Oh and lets not be going the poor old route. I still have a few years on you.


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## spinman1949

*2 axis eye close ups.*

Posted these for other forum.

Figured only fair to post here as well.


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## fritz42_male

spinman1949 said:


> I never thought of a capacitor. I was going to wire another battery in parallel to compensate, but now I see that that would not help. It was the lack of available current that causes the dimming, so a capacitor should smooth out the fade as you say.
> 
> Oh and lets not be going the poor old route. I still have a few years on you.


Lol - true but only 10 years

Re the capacitor - sometimes simple solutions get missed


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## spinman1949

fritz42_male said:


> Lol - true but only 10 years
> 
> Re the capacitor - sometimes simple solutions get missed


Fritz,

Turns out the trace on the piggyback board for the RJ45 connector was part of the problem. Too small. Finally failed. After I bypassed with some 22 guage wire, the LED's barely flicker, even when multiple servo's are moving at the same time. So all along the entire skull was being starved for current.


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## fritz42_male

Yeah, servos sure seem to sink a lot of current. I was running the head turning servo on a reaper greeter off batteries then switched it to a 1.5A supply (got some dirt cheap off dealextreme - meant for driving a PSP). The movement became a lot quicker and smoother.

I saw your post the the piggyback board. Good solution - I'll have to bear such things in mind for 2010.


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## HalloweenZombie

Inspiring! I'll be making a 3-axis skull at the next MA Make and Take. If mine works half as well as yours I'll be a happy man.


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## spinman1949

*It will work !!*

A 3 axis design and the approach is limitless. However you decide to design it, just keep in mind the following.

1. Anatomy. Try to design to mimic anatomy. IE keep your axis planes close. Your head pivots, nods, and tilts on one plane. Of course the actual movement is distrubuted over a number of vertebre.

2. Weight distribution. Be prepared to counter weight in some manner. If you can design your mechanism to be balanced on all axis, then all the better. Again think of your own head. Neck muscles are stronger in back than in the front.

3. Adaptable. Allow for modification to your design. Consider additional options. Like eyes and jaw action.

4. Have fun with your design. Bottom line. If it works, then you have achieved your goal and that is best feeling of all.

Good luck and good designing.

Feel free to bounce any ideas of of myself as well as others. We all learn from each other.


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## Dr Morbius

Spinman, do you have any closeup pics of your neck mech? I'd like to try your design myself (NOT for selling), but for my own use.


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## spinman1949

*No problem Doc.*

I'll PM you.


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## SPOOKY J

This looks really good. Keep at it. I'd love to see a kit.


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## spinman1949

*Kit*

Working on it. Stay tuned.


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## Dead Things

Hey Spinman, I'm a bit of a Johnny come lately to this thread so the videos you had posted have been removed but I loved the 3 axis on your youtube channel. Would love to see the design of the neck. I am going to build a neck for a witch mask that I have and have checked out a couple of designs, one is Dave Corr of Halloween2go and the other is skygodtj on youtube and he apparently got his from halloweenbob. Both quite different in their designs. I saw another by a fellow who was building a badger animatronic, quite intriguing as well.


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## Dead Things

Oops, I guess Halloween Bob is Graveyardsulls Halloween Bob. Doh!!!


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