# How far is TOO far?



## Mcnab (Oct 13, 2010)

I was in my local spirit store and saw a lot of gory props and gross-out lawn figurines. My mom accompanied me and kept commenting on how Halloween was so much less satanic than it is nowadays.

I see all of the gore and blood and think to myself... "is this really good for little kids?" But i shove it off until I found something that just downright disgusted me, it was a thing which you attached to your stomach that would make a zombified fetus pop out and scream.

And so I think to myself... "WTF IS THIS S***!!! This isn't fun at all! This is just offensive and horrible!" 

But hey that was just me.

Tell me what you think just steps the thin border of holiday fun and disgusting and offensive.


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## goneferal (Sep 8, 2010)

*A good scare...*

... shouldn't be cheap IMHO. Loud noise scares and gory scares take away from the really fun scary stuff which is the unknown and the unseen. They are O.K. in moderation. Best is to leave the scare up to the imagination. I don't want to repulse the TOTs, I want to make their hair stand up on the back of their necks at the prospect of something unknown, ambiguous, and _potentially_ evil.

BTW, I see real gore on a daily basis, and the body parts and guts and whatever you saw- I've seen for real. The things in the stores are goofy looking in comparison.

The real scare behind Halloween in the human fear of death. Period. I happen to like to toy with the idea rather than hide from it. Why the hell not, we only live once, right?


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## Mcnab (Oct 13, 2010)

Holy hell what do YOU do for a living?


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## TeddyMadison (Oct 14, 2010)

Strictly ghosts, bats, spiders, and ghouls here. Nothing bloody. I wan't to spook the ToTs, not terrorize them. The unseen and the imagination is truly the driver here. I have had years that something like a pile of leaves was freaking them out more than the actual props lol. that tells me I'm doing it right.


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## SKAustin (Dec 12, 2009)

I think the problem here is the desensitization of our younger generations. They've been subjected to so much death, gore, and evil through their video games, television/movies and real life that it has little if any effect on them anymore. The classic halloween just isn't scary anymore. It leaves the halloween industry looking for things with more "shock value". 

I believe a well thought out haunt with a classic theme can still deliver an effective scare, it's just not as easy as it used to be. Perhaps it's like fashion, and some day in the near future, the classic images of halloween will become so forgotten that they regain some of their "creep factor" back.


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## joker (Sep 25, 2007)

At The Asylum we have very little blood and body parts. To me gore isn't scary at all. Every year we get a new person in the group that just wants to cover a room in blood or do this or that with blood. My response is usually why? They're like that would be so cool. But is it scary I'd ask? And they'd usually reply with a dumbfounded look and an uhm or two and so no. The only time blood scares me if its mine and I'm not sure where its coming from.

We use a lot of phobias in our haunt, leave more to the imagination and utilize misdirection really well. On a scale of 1 to 10 our guests consistently give us a 9.5. We must be doing something right.


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## slightlymad (May 25, 2006)

SKAustin said:


> I think the problem here is the desensitization of our younger generations. They've been subjected to so much death, gore, and evil through their video games, television/movies and real life that it has little if any effect on them anymore. The classic halloween just isn't scary anymore. It leaves the halloween industry looking for things with more "shock value".
> 
> I believe a well thought out haunt with a classic theme can still deliver an effective scare, it's just not as easy as it used to be. Perhaps it's like fashion, and some day in the near future, the classic images of halloween will become so forgotten that they regain some of their "creep factor" back.


Ditto


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

Was it a zombified fetus or a parasitic twin? Cause that would make a difference to me.

I think blood and gore can be fun but I agree that it's overdone.


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## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Not personally a huge fan of extreme gore, at least in my own haunts. I saw the tummy buster zombie baby shirt thing you mentioned. It wasn't THAT bad, I actually found it rather amusing and considered buying it for use but it just didn't fit the theme.

But I agree, its because of how desensitized we've become as a society. It's not how my tastes run but seems to be for most. Fear alone doesn't seem to cut it anymore, even in horror films. The fright industry as a whole has shifted more to extreme gore, splatter, and sheer shock. It's much more of a gross out fest than a fear fest.

Its why films like Saw are more popular than films like The Ring.

Here's the shirt: http://www.spirithalloween.com/product/md-belly-buster/


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## Mcnab (Oct 13, 2010)

I liked The Ring more than SAW I can tell you that much.

But I guess I agree with everyone here, I've actually never experienced true phycological terror like you guys are implementing but would love to see the effects.


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## Bone Dancer (Oct 7, 2005)

I totally agree with the idea of desensitized society. What we take for granted on TV right now wouldn't have been allowed ten or fifteen years ago. Gore has it's place depending on the theme of the haunt, but more is not better or scarier, just grosser. Maybe that is what the people that do gore are aiming for. I prefer the classical Halloween of skeletons, witches, ghost and goblins. And since I don't do a haunt persay, but a private party, I am more concerned about the artistry of the props. 
There is one thing that worries me and thats those that say, "if they don't like it, screw'em". Yes it is your haunt and you should be free to do it as you want to. But you should remember you are a representitive of Halloween , be as scary as you want to, but I don't think being totally gross helps the image of the holiday.


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## jaege (Aug 23, 2009)

SKAustin said:


> I think the problem here is the desensitization of our younger generations. They've been subjected to so much death, gore, and evil through their video games, television/movies and real life that it has little if any effect on them anymore. The classic halloween just isn't scary anymore. It leaves the halloween industry looking for things with more "shock value".
> 
> I believe a well thought out haunt with a classic theme can still deliver an effective scare, it's just not as easy as it used to be. Perhaps it's like fashion, and some day in the near future, the classic images of halloween will become so forgotten that they regain some of their "creep factor" back.


That does not mean that we have to stop using classic style props. Contrary to what seems to be common belief here, Halloween is not about being scared or scaring someone. It is about those spooky things out there that "could" scare us. Bats, rats snakes, spiders, darkness, fog etc. Blood and gore is cheap, easy and require no imagination on the part of the haunter or the haunted. I assume that most haunters view Disney's Haunted Mansion as an ultimate haunt. There is no blood or gore there.


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## Jan (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm always surprised that some parents will bring small children with them when checking out (what I find are) gory decorations at Halloween/party stores, but when I watch the reactions of the kids, they rarely seem bothered. I even saw one child (probably younger than 2 years) in a stroller point at a zombie baby who was eye level with him, and he said, "Baby!" All the adults who heard it (including me) chuckled in an awkward kind of way, and the mom tried to clarify that it was a monster baby or something like that. Maybe really little kids just don't have the frame of reference to get what the prop represents? 

Anyway, as for how far is too far, I like when something is left to the imagination. I find often less is more.


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## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

@Jan: funny you should mention kids. My sister-in-law is pretty strict with her daughter who's around that age. Earlier this year she wanted to test her reaction to my work since they come over every 1031. The child actually kissed one of my creepier characters. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with it. It's one thing to desensitize but totally another not to face your fears or hide things from kids because we're afraid of traumatizing them. It's all a really fine line. 

We shouldn't fear death (nor should we be going around thinking we're immortal either) but respect it. And deep down I feel thats exactly what Halloween teaches us - to defy and mock death in a safe fantasy setting. We learn to respect it instead of fear it.


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## Jan (Sep 21, 2010)

Terrormaster, you made many good points--thanks. (Perhaps that's why you're the Terrormaster!) I can imagine it'd be healthier for children if not too big of a deal is made of the creepy stuff. The kids probably pick up on how the adults are responding, and if the adults take it in stride and have fun with it, maybe the kids follow their lead.


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## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Jan said:


> I can imagine it'd be healthier for children if not too big of a deal is made of the creepy stuff. The kids probably pick up on how the adults are responding, and if the adults take it in stride and have fun with it, maybe the kids follow their lead.


Exactly!


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## austenandrews (Aug 22, 2010)

Nostalgia will always be part of Halloween. That's why we have so many witches and black cats and Jacob's ladders and electric chairs - stuff that hasn't been actively scary for decades if not centuries. But for me, Halloween also encompasses a healthy dose of pushing boundaries. Creeping out the previous generation is perfectly in line with that. Since I'm of a previous generation myself, I wouldn't be surprised to see something that I felt was too much. (Of course I'm a sick bastard from a previous generation, so it hasn't happened yet. ) Personally I don't do gore and corpses in my setup. But for all I know my great-grandkids will have inflatable slaughterhouses where they play tug-of-war with squishy foam gore, and eat anatomically precise cake-people with strawberry blood and hardened sugar bones.

...

Come to think of it, why should we wait on that stuff?


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## scareme (Aug 29, 2006)

I picked up the parasitic twin one for my son to wear. He has always wanted a brother. It's more for a laugh than a scare.


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## GothicCandle (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm not a fan of gore, I don't find it scary at all, just silly. Subtle horror is much better and shocking someone really isn't that interesting to me. For my haunt I keep it creepy but it's not scary. I have small children that come and I don't want to give them nightmares. In any case though I don't see the point of horrible disgusting gore, it's not scary at all, like what SKAustin said the classic stuff isn't scary to a lot of people I guess, but the unknown is still the number one human fear. As far as being offensive I don't think gore is ether though, not sure why it would be offensive.... Offensive is being judgmental, rude, and refusing to see how silly and fun Halloween can be when viewed properly. It's not satanic and never has been. Some weirdos who are nuts may do bad things and use it as an excuse but they are just as crazy on any other day of the year. I'm tired of people coming up with these lame excuses for bad behavior. Halloween is about over coming fear, the beginning of the autumn season and starting off the year with a positive attitude. About Diving into the unknown, the strange, and the unexplainable and coming up again ready to take whatever life comes at you. Really, it's quite a empowering holiday.


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## Smexiigirlygrl (Aug 5, 2010)

It also depends on your crowd you're scaring. Where I live there are blocks where teens only go and a block where little kids go. The teens seem to like the blood and gore while the kids like the witches and classical stuff. Personally as a teen myself I like to have a mixture just so everyone is happy. I don't have a lot of gory props though. But if you based your house off of SAW then that may go a bit far. Universal Studios based a lot of their mazes off of SAW and that's what kept me from going. While Knott's Scary Farm I was fine because I had the choice to not go through the gory mazes and when through the more classical ones. Theme parks are usually pretty smart on advertising to the correct audiences. Overall, there is a limit but it's really up to who you are and who you are scaring.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I've never seen any of the Saw movies. Basically, because I find gore for gores sake shocking and distasteful, not scary.

I build my props more for the enjoyment of the teens and my adult friends. Last year, I used no blood or guts and my friends comments that it wasn't Halloween enough without blood. So this year, I made a point of purposefully add blood stains...if for no other reason then to add color.


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## jdubbya (Nov 6, 2005)

Bone Dancer said:


> There is one thing that worries me and thats those that say, "if they don't like it, screw'em". Yes it is your haunt and you should be free to do it as you want to. But you should remember you are a representitive of Halloween , be as scary as you want to, but I don't think being totally gross helps the image of the holiday.


Perfectly stated BD! Halloween, IMO, is seeing a slow but steady decline. There are multiple reasons for sure but I can't help but think it's become a turnoff for a lot of people, particularly parents of TOT age kids who don't want to expose them to a lot of gore or violent themes. I remember seeing a YouTube video of some guys home "haunt". He and a bunch of his big bellied friends were dressed up as various slashers or serial killers and were chasing kids into the street with chain saws! Now if I was taking my kid on TOT rounds and appoached his garage only to have some idiot come flying out from behind a door wielding a chainsaw and chasing me, you can bet I'd never go back to his house. If a young child was traumatized by such an event, it's likely that Halloween would beconme something he/she disliked. We are all representatives and hopefully ambassadors of Halloween. If we want this holiday to be viable for years to come, then maybe we all have a stake in keeping it within some type of parameters. A home haunt doesn't have to be "Disney-fied" but creating a violent/gory theme or atmosphere doesn't appeal to many people.


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## Roach McKrackin (Oct 17, 2010)

I just want to jump in here and point out that from a sociological standpoint, people kill each other in much more moderation than ever before, so when people say that "things are worse than they've ever been" it's just not true... Of course, we can only perceive the times we live in, and everything is relative... Just some food for thought...


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

Very good point Roach.
It's like when you're grandparents watch the news, "back in my day........". They always think we're going straight to hell in a hand basket and when I'm that age I'll probably think the same thing.

This better be the last Saw movie they make or I'm burning down the film studio!!!


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## hauntedyardofdoom (Nov 6, 2008)

Roach McKrackin said:


> I just want to jump in here and point out that from a sociological standpoint, people kill each other in much more moderation than ever before, so when people say that "things are worse than they've ever been" it's just not true... Of course, we can only perceive the times we live in, and everything is relative... Just some food for thought...


It's only because we have so much access to information - videos and live reports from every corner of the world. 100 years ago most Americans would probably have no idea what was really going on in the world. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.


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## remylass (Sep 18, 2008)

I usually don't do gore, but this year, I do have a teensy bit. I have a yard full of zombies. There is one carrying an arm around with him. My werewolves aren't gory, though. Kids love the werewolves. Parents love the zombies.


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

I think a little gore (if it helps to tell your story or further your theme) is more than ok. I always have enough to put a smile on my face and kids of all ages always get a kick out of it. Just got to know where that line is for ToTs, I guess.


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## MorbidMariah (Mar 28, 2009)

I totally agree with you, sickNtwisted.

The first year I did a haunt it was WAY gorey. Because that's just EASY. Then I started trying to develope the atmosphere and realized that it was much more fun and challenging to do "spooky". So that's what I go for now. But there are a few spots here and there in my display that require a little blood to get the storyline across. I just find extreme amounts of blood and gore to be tiresome and overdone. Much more skill is required to spook people out.



sickNtwisted said:


> I think a little gore (if it helps to tell your story or further your theme) is more than ok. I always have enough to put a smile on my face and kids of all ages always get a kick out of it. Just got to know where that line is for ToTs, I guess.


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## Death's Door (Mar 22, 2006)

I remember going to a professional haunt and in the swamp they had place a cooler with a leg hanging out of it. This was around the same time that the trial of Ann Marie Fahey who was killed and dumped into the Atlantic ocean by Thomas Capano (made national headlines and even a 2-part movie about the murder and trial). Even though I didn't complain, it did take me by surprise as why someone would do this considering the factual circumstances around it. Other people on the hayride found that distasteful and even complained to the managers. 

Anyhoo, it's your haunt and if you like to push the envelope, then by all means. But as some of the members have said, we represent the spirit of Halloween. Halloween does get it's fair share of negative publicity around this time of year from the media and bible thumpers. 

For me is not the blood and gore that get me all prickly - it's the creep factor. Even a lot of the horror movies today fail in that department because they are all about the blood and gore or use too many special effects and don't leave anything to the imagination.


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

@Da Weiner - That's right in line with people who wear Charles Manson t-shirts and Ed Gein bbq aprons.


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## Regions Beyond (Sep 14, 2010)

To be a voice of dissent here (and my personal haunt is hardly gore-drenched, Western-themed and classic skeletons and cemetery type)...I believe firmly that gore has a place if well used, and enjoy such. A lot of gory type movies are very bad and not interesting, but it can be done both in films and haunts, dare I say it, with purpose and "taste". I've seen some very nice and involving professional haunts with quite morbid themes and gross gags...a Jack the Ripper/Victorian London one comes to mind at Knott's Scary Farm..that mixes gore, atmosphere, creepiness and all the rest well. 

Of course there is a difference between a film like Poltergeist or The Changeling, a classic ghost film that is genuinely creepy, and something like Saw and it's ilk. But I can enjoy both, truly...a well-made splatter film that either has a good story or is fun in terms of being inventive or going over the top for pure exuberance reasons is truly enjoyable to see, for me. 

Just as an example...if gore is all you do, just like entirely clowns or chainsaws or whatever, and it is simple and based on a room filled with that one element..it is less succesfull. Gore has it's place and I enjoy seeing it used well, and firmly believe it can be used to great effect and support a theme and creepy haunt. Count me in favor of gore, and not one who sees it solely as a shock tactic for today's disenfranchised and jaded youth


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

Regions Beyond, you said it better than I ever could.

Who doesn't enjoy some good old Savini style gore?


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## Johnmonster (Sep 4, 2009)

The Haunt I work at has its share of gore, but most of it is to satisfy the expectations of the patrons. My room, actually, is the goriest, since I'm the Butcher.

I've made a fair number of gory props, and definitely they have a place in the scheme of the haunt. But, I'd draw the line at something like an aborted baby on a dissection tray. Fine in a movie, sure. But not in a haunt.

What I find scary is props or costumes that evoke the natural world, but a darker, hidden aspect of it. Creatures hidden among the brambles, lurking in the vines and roots, ready to slough off their coat of fallen leaves and shamble behind the unwary to drag them into the darkness between the trees. That creeps me out far more than jello brains and rubber body parts.

The parasitic twin shirt sounds pretty neat, though I'd be expecting it to say "Quaid, start the reactor!"


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## MistressWitch (Feb 20, 2010)

For me- blood, guts, gore doesn't do anything for me. I can take it- leave it- doesn't much matter one way or the other. It's the "that could really happen" factor that scares the crap out of me and that's why I don't do haunted houses, scarry movies, and the like. Our rubber zombies that we got from SoH freak me out- even the pics on the boxes freak me out. I'm the one that found them at the store and insisted on getting them- but they terrify me. 
As for our haunt, if you could call it that, we have the zombies, tombstones, fog, a hanging demon & some other odds and ends- It scares the kids and some of them (even teen age kids) are leery of coming to get their candy, though I don't understand why because nothing jumps out, nothing is animated at all and we don't have any "live actors"- just me sitting in my chair by the fire waiting for kids to show up. This will be the first year we have fog in the cemetary so that hasn't even been creepy. Perhaps the unknown is what scares them and the anticipation that something or someone will jump out and go boo. 
I do hope to work towards a butcher or morgue scene but that will be in a year or two. There won't be much blood and gore other than blood running off the table into a bucket. The whole reason I want to do the scene is to build the prop and the only scene that particular prop would make sence is a butcher or morgue- but that will be the only "gore" other than a few static spatters here and there. The scene itself will be off the direct path to the candy so the wee ones won't see it unless a parent takes them to see it.
I think gore tollerance really depends on the individual. I have 4 kids 24-15, and 1 of them can't handle anything blood, guts, gore at all. Not on tv, not in movies, not in real life, not in any way shape or form. In Kindergarden he got a microscopic paper cut that turned red, never really blead at all, and he nearly passed out. We took all the kids to the Body Worlds exhibit (a must see in my opinion- see it if you get the chance) and he was in the corner on the floor ready to vomit while the rest of us were up close and personal with the bodies to see how our parts really look & are connected. 
I think it's a matter of opinion and personal taste and what our individual brains are hardwired to think & react to.


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