# I'm so lost. Help please. :D



## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

So I want to make my coffin lid go up and down like a monster in a box this year. This is my first time working with pneumatics, and I'm already overwhelmed. 1/8", 1/4", flow control valves, exhaust valves, 3 way, 4 way solenoids. Single acting, double acting. Hoping you guys can help me out here. I've been looking at pneumatics @ Fright Props. I think I'm going to go with a 1 1/16" bore, maybe 4" stroke. Not sure if I need single or double acting. Also, what size connectors/air lines are best for this? The lid probably weighs 10lbs. It's kind of heavy. Please help.


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## bfjou812 (Aug 15, 2008)

If you are going to use the Fright Props kit ,I would get the Lid Opening kit. It seems to have everything you need to get your prop going and at what I consider a very reasonable price. There are several tutorials on pneumatics on this forum. I think there is one at the beginning of this section. http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=32052 Hope this helps.


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## kprimm (Mar 14, 2009)

First thing I would consider is, is the lid going to open and close steady to look like something in there opening it? Or does it need to open and stay open for like a body popping out or something? Using pneumatics to just rock the lid up and down is way more work and expense than is needed, in which case a wiper motor set up would be much better, if it needs to open quickly or for a particular scare, then pneumatics will be great. To control the open and close aspect you will want a double acting air cylinder, meaning you control the cylinder in both directions. Single acting will go in one direction with a spring acting as the return to position until air is triggered again. If going double acting you will want a 5 port/ 4 way solenoid, giving you the air inlet and the other 2 valves for directional control of the cylinder in both directions.Flow control valves are very helpful for controlling the speed of the cylinder travel, allows you to fine tune the travel. and exhaust valves help to control your return and also quiet the cylinder a bit. 1 1/16" would be way more than enough power for the lid and I would think a cheaper 3/4" would handle that chore easily, choice is your here, either would work.The video from 2 scary guys helped me out tremendously when learning pneumatics, and I highly recommend it.
http://scaryguys.com/dvdpneumatics.html


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

A 3/4 or 1 inch cylinder would be fine, depending on where you mount the connection to the lid. A 4 inch stroke may not be enough, though. I would measure the depth of the coffin, and get the longest that would fit. A 4 inch would need to be mounted very close to the hinge side, and take a lot of force to open, the 1 pound of lid thats 16 inches away from the cylinder mount is going to weigh a ton as far as that cylinder is concerned. If you can do a longer cylinder stroke, you can get the lid mount out toward the middle (dont worry, it will pivot as it opens and be right at the side of the coffin and out of sight), and use a smaller cylinder bore.

Keep in mind that none of the lid opener kits include a controller. It may be in the picture, on whatever's vendor website you are on, but the price shown does not include the controller. 60 bucks or so for the controller option.

I'm 100% with kprimm. If you can do it with something else, it will be cheaper. The nice thing about the pneumatics setup is that when you get bored with that prop, you can use the solenoids, cylinders, and controller to do many more things than a wiper motor mech will do, and once you have the basic knowledge, you can build on that to make props at a fraction of the cost a vendor has to charge.

By the way, as nice as the cemetery looks, you are going to want a nice effect for the coffin. 

For a pneumatic setup you need:

A 6 inch or 8 inch stroke, 1 inch bore (or more), double acting cylinder. (with fittings for 1/4 inch airline)

A 5 port, 4 way 1/4 inch solenoid, with a 12VDC coil.

3, 1/4 inch push-in, 1/4 thread male fittings. (for the solenoid).

2, 1/8th male thread speed control mufflers. (possibly G thread, or British, ask your vendor to match to the solenoid).

10 to 20 feet of 1/4 airline, polyurethane is the best for tight bends, but the most expensive.

A compressor, for the lid opener, even a small 3 gallon would do, but remember you need enough airline to run to it, and the 1/4 inch airline from a vendor is MUCH cheaper than a hardware store rubber air hose, per foot.

A box to silence the compressor, or enough airline to get it out of easily audible range. Pro haunts will have central compressors, with hard piped air that branches out to the lines for each room.

A 1/4 inch Quick Disconnect female compressor fitting, mated to a 1/4 inch push-in, 1/4 inch male thread fitting.

You may want a 1/4 1/4 push-in shutoff valve. I wouldn't worry about condensation in the compressor messing up the solenoid with the amount of airline you will need, but I would retrofit the compressor with a ball valve pressure release on the bottom, rather than the crappy petcock valve. Run an elbow, then about 10 inches of straight pipe so the ball valve can just be kicked with your foot. Keeps it nice and dry if you do it once every day.

It seems like a lot, and I'm sure people are using less, but that's a nice setup to get you started for growth over a few years.


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for the great responses guys. Very much appreciated. I decided to go at it myself instead of buying the kit. I'm going for more of a monster in a box effect vs the lid opening way up. I do want the ToT's to see the guy in the box, but not have it open too far. So I went with a 1 1/16" double acting 4" stroke cylinder. He will be hooked to the lid so he will be moving up and down in there also. 

I purchased the cylinders, fittings, 1/4" tubing, flow control valves, etc from automationdirect from the recommendation in the sticky. But I did get the solenoids from Frightprops since autodirect only had 24 volt and the controllers I bought are 12v.

I picked up a picaboo, and also a raw brain controller. I wanted to try each one out and see which I like better. 

Hippofeet, you are right. It gets expensive real quick, but what hobby doesn't?  I've wanted to venture into pneumatics for a while now but kept shying away after looking into it. Not this year. Going for a coffin banger, and a casa fear ground breaker. Thanks again for your help guys!


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## mudbugntx (Oct 7, 2013)

Keep us updated on how you like the controllers. I am curious.


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

So I already stole my 4" stroke cylinder for another prop. Looks like I will have to get another one for the coffin. 
I've always wanted to put this guy on a pop up ever since I bought him years ago. So I built a pop up mech tonight out of 3/4" pvc. Please disregard the tape, and wood dowel.  This was only a test. Still trying to figure out the best way to mount him to the pvc frame.

He will just be triggered manually via a wireless remote. Not sure if I will have sound or not.


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## Joe_31st (Aug 20, 2013)

That's a pretty decent PVC mechanism you have going there. Nice job!


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

mudbugntx said:


> Keep us updated on how you like the controllers. I am curious.


Well after playing with the two controllers here are some thoughts about them.

Picaboo: I like that the board is mostly encased/protected. Labeling, and instructions. I like the built in amp, but wish the sound quality was better. I like the removable connectors. Cost, cheap(compared to the raw brain)

Raw Brain 2: Excellent sound. Much better than the picaboo. I'm not too thrilled about the sound from the picaboo. Love the sd card setup for the audio files. Much better than having to record each sound on the picaboo. A delay dial. Lot's of options to delay triggering the prop again. You can delay on the picaboo. But if you are using an ambient sound, which I am. There will be silence for however long you record your delay. I don't like that the controller isn't in a case of some sort. It feels super fragile when I handle it. The picaboo is much better in that regard. Of course with all the pros for this controller, you pay for it. $40 more than the picaboo.


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## Joe_31st (Aug 20, 2013)

skid_68 said:


> Well after playing with the two controllers here are some thoughts about them.
> 
> Picaboo: I like that the board is mostly encased/protected. Labeling, and instructions. I like the built in amp, but wish the sound quality was better. I like the removable connectors. Cost, cheap(compared to the raw brain)
> 
> Raw Brain 2: Excellent sound. Much better than the picaboo. I'm not too thrilled about the sound from the picaboo. Love the sd card setup for the audio files. Much better than having to record each sound on the picaboo. A delay dial. Lot's of options to delay triggering the prop again. You can delay on the picaboo. But if you are using an ambient sound, which I am. There will be silence for however long you record your delay. I don't like that the controller isn't in a case of some sort. It feels super fragile when I handle it. The picaboo is much better in that regard. Of course with all the pros for this controller, you pay for it. $40 more than the picaboo.


I agree with you on the sound. I too have a PicoBoo and the sound quality is horrible. Sounds very hollow and low quality. I never heard of the Raw Brain 2. I'll have to look it up.

This year, I'm rolling my own controller with an Arduino, relays, 20 amp, and sound board. All that still costs less than a PicoBoo.


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

Joe_31st said:


> I agree with you on the sound. I too have a PicoBoo and the sound quality is horrible. Sounds very hollow and low quality. I never heard of the Raw Brain 2. I'll have to look it up.
> 
> This year, I'm rolling my own controller with an Arduino, relays, 20 amp, and sound board. All that still costs less than a PicoBoo.


I really want to look into a lower cost alternative for next year. I need to check out the Arduino, thanks.


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## Joe_31st (Aug 20, 2013)

skid_68 said:


> I really want to look into a lower cost alternative for next year. I need to check out the Arduino, thanks.


Yes, the Arduino is a great micro controller. With that, a relay module and a PIR sensor, you can build a low cost controller. BUT, and there is a BUT...it's definitely a DIY type of project of building the circuit and you need to program the micro controller which involves programming in C which sounds hard but it's actually pretty easy.

To make things easy, there's also this thing:

http://www.hauntsoft.com/

I haven't tried it myself, but the software and sheild looks pretty neat.


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## Dead Things (Apr 4, 2009)

Picaxe is another good low cost alternative for prop control. You can purchase the individual Pic or a project board that will fill almost all your needs. Also check out scubaspook and tstraub on this (and other) forums. They offer a really inexpensive button banger with excellent sound quality.


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

Great info. Lot's to take in. I need to learn more about electronics. Thanks guys!


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## skid_68 (Sep 2, 2009)

Posted a video of the coffin monster in the showroom. I'm uploading my zombie now. 
http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?p=773836#post773836


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## Sili (Oct 14, 2013)

i can fully recommend the monstershield from hauntsoft! easy setup, easy programming (both ways), pretty good sound, 4 relays.

i like it. could be optimized with a housing but it works well!

also, support by jason is very good!


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## Joe_31st (Aug 20, 2013)

Sili said:


> i can fully recommend the monstershield from hauntsoft! easy setup, easy programming (both ways), pretty good sound, 4 relays.
> 
> i like it. could be optimized with a housing but it works well!
> 
> also, support by jason is very good!


I think I may go that route for next year. I rolled my own this year. It worked well, but it was a quite a bit of work.


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