# Using Nox Arcana music for haunt videos



## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

Does Nox Archana allow use of there music for haunt videos? I've seen their music used, and I think we've used it before, but we had a problem with Photobucket recently rejecting a video because of copywrite issues.


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## BioHazardCustoms (Aug 5, 2009)

I know that they just recently changed their use of material policy. I can't remember what site I saw the link on, though. I'll look around and see if I can find the thread.


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## Johnny Thunder (Feb 24, 2006)

Spooky1 I sent you a PM with a link.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

No, they no longer allow the use of their music unless you pay them. That is my understanding of the new policy. It is a flat fee and not based on attendance or profit status.


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Yup, what Allen said.


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## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

That's too bad. They've just lost lots of free advertising from home haunter. I'll be sticking with Midnight Syndicate for all our haunt videos.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

Dont forget about *Virgil*, *Jerry Vayne*, and *In a World* they all do great music for haunts to use.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

WRONG!

-Allen, Don't know you, have never done business with you, you never registered, so why are you answering legal questions for Nox Arcana?

-Jeff, You buy our music CDs to re-sell, but we never charged you to play music. Why are you misleading people in this?

Fact: Nox Arcana do NOT charge fees to HOME Haunts and Charity Haunts. Only to those professional haunts that sell tickets for profit, who do not help promote the band, or who do not license the music through BMI.

You want to play the music and charge $15 to $25 per ticket, then you can pay a licensing fee. Jeez. Some of the pro haunts rake in $10,000 to $70,000 in a season. What's $100 to them? It's nothing. You guys make it out like the band is trying to rip people off. Thanks a lot!

Also, there were many who did not honor their agreements for the free music use, or they were just complete jerks to work with. They were banned. We don't kiss anyone's ass. We work hard and expect honesty from those we partner with. I'm sure that's not the 'business model' anyone reads in books, but it's served us very well.

If you have a question, just email the publisher or band directly. (Make sure to include your contact info, business name, website, etc.)
http://noxarcana.com/contact.html

PS. I'm so glad I was invited to this forum so I could find out what people really think, and hopefully set things straight. But I am not active on forums, so please send an email if you have any further questions.

Christine


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## halstaff (Nov 18, 2009)

DarkQueen,
First off, welcome to the forum. I'm happy you posted and cleared this up as I know many of us love your music and use it in our home haunts. We appreciate you letting us use your music. I know I've wondered what the policy was and am happy to now know.
I hope you continue to visit the forums and I look forward to hearing what you come up with next.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

Dark Queen,

"—Allen, Don't know you, have never done business with you, you never registered, so why are you answering legal questions for Nox Arcana?"
Im not, Im answering a post on a public forum to the best of my ability- I even clearly stated that it "was my understanding" of your policy. As I work mostly with pro haunts the what I said was factual. We have done business together, but I dont expect you to keep track of everyone. 
Business is a pain in the butt, I understand that. My advice is to be active in the forums, if you are here to ask then there will be less misunderstandings on everyones part.
It is against forum policy to sign your posts, but this is adressed to an individual so im breaking the rules for courtesy's sake.
Allen Hopps.


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

With the number of people companys sell to, it's no wonder the merchants don't remember people and names, (some do). 

Just for my knowledge, who is responsible to check for useage approval of music at haunts, when the music is recognized as being used?? The band members, attorneys??
I've recognized a lot of music used at commercial haunts.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

If you are using music illegally then you could get contacted by ASCAP and or BMI. It isint my department but those are the companies involved. 
http://www.bmi.com/
http://www.ascap.com/
They may pay the fees, they may not. Its like using pirated software you could get busted and it could cost big, so it isint worth it.


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## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

ASCAP is the worse of the two. I remember many moons ago (1980s) back when I worked in the movie theater industry. The particular chain I worked for was owned by WRNO radio so of course we had the radio broadcast playing for intermission music in the auditoriums and the lobby. We were contacted and sent a C&D from ASCAP that claimed that since we charged admission to come into the theater that we were effectively charging customers to listen to the music as well and were thus in violation of the artists rights. We ended up switching to mix tapes and played them in the auditoriums only. The selection of music was limited to stuff not owned by ASCAP. 

It boggles the mind how the labels come to these crazy conclusions. While I completely respect the artists rights. Behavior such as what I wrote above amounts to nothing more than bullying and trolling by todays media standards. The RIAA needs to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

I'm ever grateful for artists like Nox Arcana who are totally open to new media and fully support the haunt industry for home and professional. The team at Monolith have been nothing but beyond exceptionally fair when it comes to the use of their music. I've seen so many fan videos and haunt videos on YouTube that have not only maintained an uninterrupted presence on YouTube but can be seen posted in numerous spots throughout the official Monolith forums. Unless you're posting an entire album or making some sort of profit off their work, the team is usually very fair and open.


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## Hauntiholik (May 17, 2006)

The original question was for the use of Nox Arcana's music in haunt videos that were uploaded to youtube and the music was stripped for copyright issues.

Can a home haunter use the music there and if so, do they need to get permission?

@Terror - any idea why one haunt video would have the music stripped over another one? Luck of the draw?


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

The issue was actually with Photobucket - uploading a slideshow of home haunt pictures to which a perfect piece of Nox Arcana music had been added. Partway through the upload, we got an error message stating that the video could not be uploaded because it contained copyrighted material.

Neither Spooky1 nor I have any problem with an artist taking steps to protect their rights to their creations. Since we had successfully used their music (which we ALWAYS credit) on other occasions for the same purpose, the question was posed so we could get a clarification from anyone who might have some insight about a change in policy.

We did try to find guidelines on their web site, but perhaps we weren't looking in the right place. We had previously gone under the assumption that they allowed noncommercial use of their music for this purpose as long as they were credited. If things have changed, we just want to be sure we aren't breaking any rules.


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## kprimm (Mar 14, 2009)

I think some of this copy right stuff is BS. If you legally purchase the music and use it for your own private use ( making a haunt video) and not selling the video, I don't see how you are violating any artist or their material. Like Darkqueen said, if you were using their music and making a ton of movie off it, then yes you should pay for it. There are too many cheap people in this world that have no issues ripping off artists and their work. You see it all the time, people copying and reselling cd's, videos, dvd's and so on.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

Allen, We have never done business with Screamspark, and your name in not anywhere in my database or emails archive. Perhaps you did business under another name.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

This in in response to Roxy. We had nothing to do with Photodisc, but some sites try to bootleg the CDs and use Photodisk to upload cd covers, so perhaps Photodisk has our images on file in some sort if image recognition software. Or perhaps they have rules about uploading music. Either way, you should ask the band for permission, then you,ll have no worries.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

Screamspark is not the Haunt I worked at, it was Screams. I doubt you have my name down- Im not a reseller, Im just a consultant- I buy from you guys every year at a trade show. The books are great by the way.


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

DarkQueen said:


> This in in response to Roxy. We had nothing to do with Photodisc, but some sites try to bootleg the CDs and use Photodisk to upload cd covers, so perhaps Photodisk has our images on file in some sort if image recognition software. Or perhaps they have rules about uploading music. Either way, you should ask the band for permission, then you,ll have no worries.


It was Photobucket, not Photodisc

Spooky1 has sent an email to the band to ask about this issue. Frankly, I don't know how a web site with some kind of recognition software is going to know you got permission to use any band's piece, which puts us back at square one.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

I meant to say Photobucket. In any case, it wasn't us who removed anything. I was only surmising. I have no clue as to how they would stop an upload halfway thru. Sounds like an upload error but maybe it displayed their usual disclaimer about not uploading copyrighted material. 

As for YouTube, anyone who asks and is only making vids for fun and not monetizing the video is given permission, and all we ask is that the song and band is credited with a link to the site, which is fair and provides the info to anyone who might wonder what the music is that's playing. I've only removed a handful of vids, mostly from rappers taking full credit for the music. One idiot was actually trying to sell a license for each song for $70 to $90 per song. So, when I do take action, it's because someone is seriously being an arse. 

Otherwise, we really are flattered that people design their Halloween themes around the albums.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

Allen H said:


> Screamspark is not the Haunt I worked at, it was Screams. I doubt you have my name down- Im not a reseller, Im just a consultant- I buy from you guys every year at a trade show. The books are great by the way.


I see. Buying CDs at a tradeshow is one thing, but you never registered your haunt, so how would I have know you? If its a pro haunt then it needs to be registered. At the very least we ask a banner be placed. But if your haunt does not want to do promotion in trade, then it's a flat fee, or BMI, which is actually a pain.

As for other companies not remembering people, I suppose that is the case with companies that have many employees, like a person to do bookings, one to do the website, another to vend shows, another for marketing... but ours is a company of two. And i do all the bookkeeping, marketing, website design, customer service, fulfillment. The only thing I don't do is the creative (maybe a teeny bit). Anyway, I know the name of every single person that's ever done business with us. I have a massive database of companies and individual customers. I may not always be able to put a name with a company in the first second, but i can look it up within five, and I do not spam our entire database every time a cd is reviewed, but I send a newsletter when there's something noteworthy to announce.

Anyway, my batteries are low, so I gotta scram and plug this stupid gizmo in for the night. So, don't be a stranger. If you have a question, send me an old fashioned email.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

"I see. Buying CDs at a tradeshow is one thing, but you never registered your haunt, so how would I have know you? "
I never said you should know me, you thought you should just because I bought from you.
"Anyway, I know the name of every single person that's ever done business with us"
Except the one who have bought at tradeshows, apparently.

"If its a pro haunt then it needs to be registered."
No it doesent, I do not use your CD's at Screams- never have. Screams also pays BMI and Ascap, I buy them because I like them, just for me.

Your material is not roaylty free- that is why photobucket and youtube will pull videos that use the music without your knowledge. I am super careful when Im shooting a video because a radio in the background will make the video unuseable.


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## IMU (Apr 8, 2009)

DarkQueen said:


> Fact: Nox Arcana do NOT charge fees to HOME Haunts and Charity Haunts. Only to those professional haunts that sell tickets for profit, who do not help promote the band, or who do not license the music through BMI.
> 
> If you have a question, just email the publisher or band directly. (Make sure to include your contact info, business name, website, etc.)
> http://noxarcana.com/contact.html
> ...


I'm glad you've cleared this up for us.

I did email awhile back and asked for permission when I put together my slideshow for my Halloween 2010 slideshow and it was nice to get a possitive response back and approval ... so Thank You! 

Maybe Spooky1 & RoxyBlue just got caught up in the photobucket "trap"???


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## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info DarkQueen. I guess my last question will be, how does getting permission from the the band allow us to use a song on Youtube or Photobucket? Would Youtube or Photobucket get some kind of notification that allows us to load a video onto their site?


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## sluggo (Jun 16, 2010)

Allen H said:


> ...that is why photobucket and youtube will pull videos that use the music without your knowledge.


Given that I can go to youtube, type in the name of just about any song, and find multiple listings that play the original studio track while displaying the album cover or some such thing, I'm really skeptical this happens on a regular basis.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

Allen H said:


> I never said you should know me...





Allen H said:


> "We have done business together, but I dont expect you to keep track of everyone."


I bought a dress at Macy's yesterday, but I would not say (in regards to Macy's) that "we have done business together." I think your wording (and the guilt-inducing comment about not expecting me to "keep track" of everyone) completely gave the wrong impression.

By "doing business together" it implies at the very least the two parties have exchanged names and contact info and have come to some sort of mutual business agreement, even if it's just a verbal one.

When you stated that you're a consultant for this and that haunt, you gave the impression you use the music in a professional capacity, hence my response about registering.

If you paid cash at a tradeshow, did not leave a business card, did not leave any form of contact such as email, name, etc., then there would be no possible way that I would know you, much less "keep track". You made a purchase, and I appreciate that. But the same could be said if you purchased a mask from a costume maker, or any other retailer at a show.

So basically, getting back to the entire start of this whole discussion; you really had no actual business arrangements with our company, you did not leave any form of contact with our representative, and you had no idea what our policies were regarding licensing because you never actually licensed or even inquired about licensing.

Whew. Glad I cleared that up cuz, I really started to worry that I actually might have forgotten a person with whom I did business with, corresponded with, and all that. And I would feel really bad if that were the case, as it would be a first. But I sure will remember you.


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

Sluggo-
Im a youtube partner and I have to be pretty familiar with the policies. Yes there are legal ways to have music on videos- one way does display the album. Monetized videos (that have ads or are for a business) cant use copywritten music without permission- we actually have to post that we have permission every time we post. I have a non monetized video of my dogs playing in the snow that I put a sound track to for my family- because there is copywritten music on it, its banned from viewing in Germany. Its only viewable to about 10 of my family members, but if they go to Germany then they cant watch it lol.

Dark Queen- Never meant to make you feel guilty- I honestly didnt expect you to remember everyone. 
Also we have a different concept of business, to me I purchased from you so we have done business. It is irrelevant to this thread however and seems to be a big issue for you that you dont know me- so I will go to your website and register.
I never intended to upset you, never intended to make you feel guilty. I accept your sardonic wrath and agree that I am completly at fault. My appologies.
Allen H
(courtesy dictates I must sign an apology, moderators please understand)


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

Allen, thank you for taking the high road. You are always a gentleman here and it's appreciated.

I would appreciate it if everyone else posting on this thread would also take the high road and stick to the topic (which was a question about Nox Arcana's policy for use of their music for a noncommercial video). I believe it has mostly been answered, and Spooky1 has also contacted the band directly for clarification, as suggested by DarkQueen.


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## DarkQueen (Oct 1, 2006)

No need to register if your haunt doesn't play the music. But thanks.


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