# Torso Swivel Question



## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

_I'm sure folks have done this before....but I don't have any links to similar projects._

I'm working on a standing werewolf that is built with a wooden frame/armature. (2x4 legs, 2x2 arms, planks etc for torso. I can post images later if needed.) The torso, arm, and everything above the waste has been built as a single structure. This torso will connect to the lower half via a metal swivel.










I've built the full body structure, and now I'm ready to mount the two together. If it works as I plan, the swivel will allow the top portion of the werewolf to pivot. I want to use a deer motor or servo to control the movement, so he can turn left or the right, toward the tot.

So...my question is...what methods could I consider to control the pivot to move both left and right? A deer motor typically moves in one direction. I believe changing the polarity will change the rotation. Though this probably isn't very good for the motor, I see this as one of the cheapest solutions. I believe the swivel (which I don't have yet) has a hole in the middle. This should allow me to control the pivot through that area. Or I could use a linkage like a leering prop.

I'd really do not want to use servos or pneumatics. I've considered attaching a spring to the top and bottom with some kind of piston or motor that would engage to move...and release to reset to zero position. But I'm not familiar with an electrical motor that will engage and release like a pneumatic.

I considered a wiper motor but I don't have faith in reliably reversing the motor. I'm not great with descriptions...pictures, links, sketches would help. Any other ideas?


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

Reversing the polarity of a D.C. motor is fine - they don't care which way they turn. Most "deer" motors have a reversing circuit built in, but I think it's more of a fail-safe - not sure of the reliability of it if it's used constantly.

There was a thread on here a while back about reversing polarity using a couple of micro switches. If you could build a mechanism that had stops at the limits of travel, you could put the switches on the stops and have the torso turn back and forth constantly.

If you want to control it yourself, a couple of releays can be used to reverse polarity pretty easily.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

This is actually what I am planning on doing with my half torso. I have a prop-1 controlling it.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

How fast do you want it to pivot? I used a 30 cycle/min flasher timer and a 12VDC pull solenoid to pivot a foam groundbreaker. I used the same lazy susan bearing that you have, mounted on an 18" plywood round. The motion is more of a back-and-forth twist motion than an oscillation. If you want it to move in one direction only and hold that position until the power is cut, this may work for you.

GDBRKR.flv video by Otaku1031 - [email protected]@[email protected]@http://vid73.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/Otaku1031/[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@i231/Otaku1031/GDBRKR


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## Doc Doom (Aug 28, 2008)

Here's a quick sketch of a simple linkage that will work. You don't need to start/stop/reverse the motor. You can control the amount of movement simply by the length of the arm.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Mine is actually going back and forth. Hopfully it won't be as bad.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I was afraid nobody would understand my explanation - nor reply quick enough for me. Thanks for the great responses. Obviously...ya'll understand exactly what I'm looking for.

Doc Doom - your drawing matches my theory. Using what I called a deer motor (actually a 12vdc black gear motor), I plan to fix the motor to one structure, to turn the other - through the hole.










DeathTouch - yes, it's like moving your torso. Only my base is a set of fixed 2x4 legs with a flat board on the top.

I was thinking that I'd prefer not to use a prop controller, and make this interactive instead. Where I can casually sit at a distance, have a beer, and point the werewolf at kids as they approach.

Hedg - I wasn't thinking about relays. I'll have to wrap my head around that to understand what you are telling me. Thanks for the graphic.

I was in fact thinking about switches on both sides...but not to where the thing would just go back and forth non-stop. I was thinking of engaging it to move until it bumped a NC/NO switch on either side...which would stop the movement so he doesn't spin like a music box ballerina. But I don't have a design figured out to do this.

In the best scenario...it would be nice to have a motor control that would let me sync a dial so when I turn the dial, he'd move accordingly. But that might be excessive.

Otaku...based on your use of that turntable (lazy susan)...I know it supports 500 lbs. But...do you think a black gear motor be able to turn him back and forth without burning up? The top half of my werewolf is going to be a bit heavier than your dude.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Hedg acutally has it setup kind of what I am doing. Since mine isn't going side to side, and needs to go forward and back, the relays will switch the connectors on the motor to make it go forward and when they switch again the motor will go in reverse. If you see the picture that I posted, it shows the motor contacts. The relays will switch polarity on each of the motors contacts. I think that is what he is showing you. That is where my prop-1 comes in. I have a switch in the postion I want the motor to stop. The prop-1 picks this up and switches the motor.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Darklord, I actually bought the motors last year and this year that you show on your last response. They are tough little motors. I love them.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

If you want to control it the way you are describing it sounds like you need a servo. This is most likely too much for a servo, but if you search this forum you should find where Doc Morbius added device to a wiper motor to turn it into a high power servo, you should also be able to add the same thing to the Auto A.C. motor you have. It essentially uses a potentiometer to let you turn the motor until it is facing in the direction you want.

I like those motors also, just ordered 10 of em.



DarkLore said:


> I was afraid nobody would understand my explanation - nor reply quick enough for me. Thanks for the great responses. Obviously...ya'll understand exactly what I'm looking for.
> 
> Doc Doom - your drawing matches my theory. Using what I called a deer motor (actually a 12vdc black gear motor), I plan to fix the motor to one structure, to turn the other - through the hole.
> 
> ...


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## Doc Doom (Aug 28, 2008)

Those little black motors are pretty good but do have limits. I've had to provide counter springs and weights just to lift an arm. See my Bob the butcher post. As long as you have the lazy Susan swivel level it should work fine.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Doc Doom said:


> Those little black motors are pretty good but do have limits. I've had to provide counter springs and weights just to lift an arm. See my Bob the butcher post. As long as you have the lazy Susan swivel level it should work fine.


Yeah I just read the post closer, and he does say the upper half will not be light. Even with the lazy susan level, there will be stress starting and stopping the motion. I am starting to think wiper motor.

Or he MAY be able to use your linkage with a spring at the end of the linkage which would relieve some of the stress when the motion starts, or changes direction.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

If the swivel bears the weight that I expect it to, the black gear motor should work fine. It shouldn't end up being extremely heavy...but I have to figure it won't be as light as a standing zombie, since I'm not using pcv and a headform/mask. 

A wiper motor poses problems with weight, mounting, size, etc. And...yes...it's level.

It's not so much the motor that's a question....as it is the control of the motor.


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

If the top is fairly well balanced I'd imagine the little black motor would work OK. If you're wanting to operate the prop manually, just build the relay circuit I posted, & push one button to turn it to the left, and the other to turn it right. You could also probably get away with just using a double pole, double throw, center off toggle (or rocker) switch. I'd imagine you could find a switch that could handle the current.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I mounted the top and bottom to the lazy susan. It moves beautifully...just like a spice tray in a kitchen cabinet. This photo is prior to connecting the pieces to the lazy susan (inside the plastic bag).










I have a couple of those relays, sockets, and switches to build a control. But the next step will be deciding how the motor arm will move the torso. A bolt driven through the spindle to act as the center point to an arm extension would probably unscrew itself. Therefore, I'll probably try direct drive.


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

Dunno why but your pic had me singing this track in my head:






Great job so far!


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

Apologies for the images. I don't have any editing software on this PC. I mounted the gear motor by building a holder which is screwed underneath the primary platform. The wood has a cut out...which is hard to distinguish in the image. This brings the motor almost flush with the platform wood.










Through a center hole, I screwed an eyebolt down the middle. The hole is only slightly bigger than the eyebolt. As the motor spins, so will the eyebolt.










On the base of the torso, I screwed a piece of wood to fix the moving torso to the eyebolt.










I chose this method because it is secure, easy to fix, leaves very little exposed, and will prevent inquisitive little fingers from being pinched. This will also allow 360 degree movement, although I've no reason to spin him that far around.

Later, I'll do a mad science prop with a full rotation...using the same design. It's very clean and easy to do. Compare this implementation to a wiper motor method and you should see why I opted for a gear motor. I might mount a speak insider for sound and I'm pondering putting a small video camera in there as well.


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## Doc Doom (Aug 28, 2008)

Make sure you turn it the right way (counter clockwise looking down) or all you'll do is unscrew the eyebolt.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

It will spin quite nicely in both directions. The eyebolt is quite secure in the motor spindle. The second photo shows it prior to being screwed down. The amount of force required to unscrew the bolt would indicate someone was purposefully assaulting the prop.

(If there was a problem with it unscrewing, a horizonal pin can be run through the eyebolt and securing wood piece. I could have used a thicker piece of wood and carved a groove for the eyebolt.)


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm wiring a two button, relay controller....basically because I have the parts and very little patience for reading. I recall the wiper servo thread...but I can't find a simple drawing or how-to of it. It would probably work for the black gear motor as well.

Here's a link to the wiper motor discussion....Wiper Motor Servo.

Dr Morbius, if there's a better link, please pm it to me.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

DL, just get the Hbridge power servo card from Lynxmotion.com and wire it as per this diagram. It really is as simple as that.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I built the controller using two buttons and two relays. The switches on the front are non-functional...just to dress it up.










A 12vdc adapter plugs into the back. Two blues wires out the back, connect via wire nuts to wires hooked up on the prop. I used a length of wire about 10 feet long and controlled the werewolf without problem.










I like the thought of direct control. I'll investigate that on another prop. This thing really was easy to make. I'm sure it won't be the only prop I build around this structure. The control wasn't dificult, thanks to the drawing hedg provide, but it actually took longer to put together than the armiture did.

{ps - thanks for the help}


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

Pics aren't showing up. Glad it works!


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

As far as I can tell...the photos are there. I've uploaded them into an album on my profile. If you can't see the ones on the thread, try viewing my album.


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

They're there now - could have been on my end. Looks great!


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey Darklore, any chance you could post the dimensions you used for your werewolf structure? I like the proportions, & this would work well for my "Candy Man" I'm aiming for this year.


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## Evil Bob (Sep 1, 2005)

Here is the armature from one of my pirate bandmembers. It uses a slow RPM motor and a four-bar linkage to have a pivoting waist action


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## halstaff (Nov 18, 2009)

Evil Bob said:


> Here is the armature from one of my pirate bandmembers. It uses a slow RPM motor and a four-bar linkage to have a pivoting waist action
> 
> YouTube- Pirate xylophonist armature


Do you have any close ups of the mechanics on this? I am preparing to make up my piano player and much prefer the look of yours to what I had in mind.
Thanks.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

hedg12 said:


> Hey Darklore, any chance you could post the dimensions you used for your werewolf structure? I like the proportions, & this would work well for my "Candy Man" I'm aiming for this year.


Sure hedg. I'll try to measure the structure as soon as I get a chance.

Nice movement Bob. The linkage looks very clean. What did you use?


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## Evil Bob (Sep 1, 2005)

halstaff said:


> Do you have any close ups of the mechanics on this? I am preparing to make up my piano player and much prefer the look of yours to what I had in mind.
> Thanks.


Apparently not! However, I based it on Scarry Terry's kicking leg prop,
http://www.scary-terry.com/kicklegs/kicklegs.htm

That's for the arm motion. The waist pivot is just a simple 4-bar linkage.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

hedg12 said:


> Hey Darklore, any chance you could post the dimensions you used for your werewolf structure? I like the proportions, & this would work well for my "Candy Man" I'm aiming for this year.


I originally figured I'd make him my height...5'9". So I simply measured wood along side my body. But after the structure was screwed together (with #6 screws), I decided he wasn't a good height for kids or photos...so I cut the lengths of the wood where ever was easiest. The structure shown in the photo is approx 53". With the full shoulder/head werewolf mask sitting atop the structure...he'll stand around 5'5".










A few comments...

His legs are farther apart then normal. I expect to have to unscrew the legs to put pants on him. So there's no glue on it anywhere.

Due to the positioning of the wood, he can stand on his own even while turning. However, I intend to screw him onto a ground base to make sure people don't knock him over on Halloween.

I used spare wood planks that were laying around my garage. I'd consider making the wood at the waist/torso larger than the one at the legs. That way, an untucked shirt or coat could spin freely without tangling at the beltline. I didn't do this because I was lazy.


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks Darklore. Do you think this turns freely enough to support a moving arm mechanism similar to Evil Bobs?


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

hedg12 said:


> Thanks Darklore. Do you think this turns freely enough to support a moving arm mechanism similar to Evil Bobs?


Yes, the structure moves quite easily.

(The motor in Evil Bob's clip appears to be a bit stronger and faster than the $5 black gear motor I'm using. I would recommend a better motor.)


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

Cool. I don't need much speed or movement, so I may try the little black gear motors anyway ( I already have a couple.)


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

[_I'm attaching the following photos to this thread, so folks considering the movement will see an alternate way I've built the body._]

I created a similar structure for my lab monster (ie. Frankenstein). He'll be taller than my werewolf (ending up around 6.5" I'd guess), but no torso movement. This design uses a black gear motor to pivot the head with a side to side leering movement.










The mounting of the arms is quite different because they are pneumatically controlled.


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## The Watcher (Sep 13, 2008)

Darklore that is a nice looking set up. Do you think if you were using heavy weight. You could add a Lazy Susan type of brace? I have seen some that are hollow in the middle. So I was wondering if you thought the motor could mount there. But still have enough room to get this to work. I think the inside hole was about 9 inches on the one Ace.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

Hopefully I understand your post/question properly. You can add a lazy susan, even if it is supporting more weight. The lazy susan should move without a problem. The lazy susan on the werewolf prop has an internal ring of 4"...which could be fully cut out. You mentioned a 9" hole...that would be a significantly larger bracket.

A couple things to consider. If you offset the weight (tilt), the brace will bind a little. Although it doesn't prevent pivoting, it does hinder it. A wiper motor or stronger would be needed. For example...if I extend an arm on the werewolf structure causing it to be heavier on one side...the tension on the lazy susan will cause my little gear motor to be unable to rotate the prop 360 degrees.

If you mount the motor in the upper area, it becomes part of the weight to be moved. The power wires would pivot along with the torso area. This would hinder/prevent 360 degree movement since the wires would twist if extended too far. But, yes, I could have mounted a motor in the hollow space instead of underneath.


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## The Watcher (Sep 13, 2008)

You hit the nail on the head. The weight shift was the reason I was why I have been thinking about the LS. I had also been considering using a air cylinder. But would rather use a motor. Thank you.


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