# Alternate pump



## Hippofeet

I had some time today, so I built up a 400 watt frankenfogger with an adjustable speed, reversible peristaltic DC pump. I thought it would be nice to have the reverse, since the pump can run dry no problems, you can just reverse and pump the intake tube right back into the tank when it's time to store it. I have it running off a cheapo 3 prong generic timer ( and it was interesting to rewire the fogger to use that timer, I can see how many foggers would never work off it) so I can adjust duration of fog, interval, force and output.

Its ugly, but I am going to let it run for a few days, just cycling cheap fog fluid, see how things go.

One thing I noticed, contrary to what I thought would be the case, it's better to have a longer silicon tube running through the pump head, the shorter length swells on the pump output side, expanding the tubing, and causing a pulse in the fog output. The longer tubing doesn't have that problem, it expands just a little all along the length, and its a much more even flow.

When I get it cleaned up in a nice case, I will post some vid.

Pumps should never die!


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## Tokwik

A man with a mission. 
I know we will all benefit from your experiments. 



:cheers:


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## Hippofeet

I hope so. The pump is LESS or the SAME cost as a solenoid pump, the tubing is rated for 800 hours, the motor for 20,000 (at less than 200 degrees, so I will need to have some airflow) and i can't find anything like ratings or lifespan on a solenoid pump, I think because if you run it dry for 10 seconds, all bets are off. A solenoid replacement pump from china can be had for less than 20 bucks, but shipping is going to sting, and it's a crapshoot whether it works, or even gets to you in a reasonable time. Ive seen them sold as coffee machine pumps, for 50 bucks! Not for a 40 dollar fogger! And, it doesn't solve the basic problem just buying a new one. I just repaired two foggers, both had bad fluid level sensors (float type), so the fogger thought it was always empty, and the tanks are not made to have the sensor replaced, its a new tank, or jump the sensor out of the circuit. The tank with sensor can be half the cost of the fogger new.

So yeah. Maybe this will start a trend. Foggers that can run dry without damage, and can have the fluid pumped out of the heat exchanger easily during storage. I'm trying to cost it out as the same price (or close) for a 400 watt, although unlike others, if you hook mine up to a watt meter, its pulling 700 to 900 watts. I intentionaly want to underate them lol. Just to be different. I posted a little rant a week or so ago, you could actually build the same fogger from that rant... =)


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## spinman1949

*Good Info*

This could fix a lot if issues with foggers.

Please provide the pump and data on the pump. How are you providing DC to the pump/


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## Hippofeet

I have a 1 amp 12vdc transformer, the ones that look like a metal frame, usually have some colored tape around the windings. I could go look at the number, but really, anything will do, it only powers the pump, my pump has 80ma draw.

Hmmm. Looking at this post, its not very specific. I will get out the paperwork, and track my last orders tomorrow. Get better links.

The pump is a 12vdc peristaltic dosing pump, I have some on order, but I got the one I am using from here

http://www.robotshop.com/en/perista...google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=GoogleUSA

then I ordered two from overseas, not a very scientific sample, but gives me an idea of the manufacturers quality, and if they can get something shipped. It was fast, like way fast, for coming from overseas. The overseas ones come out the same pricewise, unless you can get free shipping.

I looked for the exact place I got the info on the lifespan, I cant find it right now. But it's right, or at least, its what is advertised as the lifespan. I will dredge it back up.

There is a pretty good selection of them out there. There are even AC one's that are sort of close in price, that would be almost a drop in replacement. Once I get the perfect fittings (I want a better connection from the metal heater inlet tube to the pvc tube from the pump.) Its not popping or anything, or leaking, but its jury rigged right now, just heated the plastic tubing, and shoved it over the metal.

Oh, I should say, it changes the fogger a bit. The stroke on the solenoid pump is short, like 1/8 inch, and fast, so the flow is smoother. The peristaltic stroke (equivalent) is almost 3/8 inch. At a straight 12vdc, if your peristaltic has a high rpm, it will pressurize and blow the line. They are surprisingly gutsy. I have a 12vdc "dimmer" on mine, cranking down the voltage to just above 6 volts, then the timer sets duration and interval, and I dont have to worry.

The reason the timers only work on some foggers (they are advertised as universal for three prong timer plug foggers) is that on some foggers the wiring is different. So what should be AC hot into the timer, is neutral, or on what should be the out signal from the timer. Theres no way for me to know, without buying one of every model of 400 watt fogger, and going through the wiring on every one.

I'm not going to do that, lol.

Anyway, on the finished version, there will be a power switch, and a plug for a universal timer, and a switch to ignore the timer plug, and go straight to a pre-set on/off, basically a fancy 555 timer. On the dual heat exchanger ones, there will be a switch that jumps it to continuous running. I'm sooo close, stupid tubing sizes.


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## Hippofeet

*pump in, rewired timer 900 watt on watt meter*

Got the pump installed (nicely) the 900 watt fogger is on a real time watt meter, and show how to rewire a generic 3 prong plug timer to work with different machines.


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## Lunatic

The research you're doing Hippofeet is very useful to many of us. I appreciate it!

BTW, I noticed that your video appears to be a mirrored image as the words and numbers are backwards. Please tell me this is true or I just found out I'm dyslexic.


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## Hippofeet

Hahaha

It's not you, it's the laptop. I don't why that happens, I think it would be better if the laptop had a cam on the lid, like my Ipad has a cam on the back, but no such luck.

I actually like my crappy vids.

So I ran the fogger all day, and I will be running it everyday for a while, and cleaning it with fogger cleaner, and vinegar, and other stuff to see if anything hurts the pump. It won't, or shouldn't. The tubing is silicon tubing, it should be just fine for a wide range of chemicals, the pump doesn't require any lubrication, there is only one area I am really keeping an eye on, and that is temperature. The temp range on the pump maxes out at 40 deg. C, or 104 deg. F. It is hitting 120 ish. So, I need to see if that shortens the lifespan of the pump, but there are many ways to fix that if it seems to be happening.

So, now I have 12vdc in the fogger running the DC pump, which means I can easily add LED's, I can run multiple colors and a small timer/controller to alternate the colors and color the fog to get a red effect for say a chimney or train stack...

I just thought of something that would maybe be really cool. Need to talk to the boss.


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## RoxyBlue

HF, you are the GeekMeister of Foggers, and I mean that as a compliment You have such a driving curiosity about how things work and how to make them better. It's very refreshing to know there are still folks like that.


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## Hippofeet

Thanks Roxy!

lol, I like this stuff, that's for sure.


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## Lunatic

I love your crappy videos, too! Lol! 
Definitely not crappy videos...showing people helps simplify it more than just words. Thanks for that!


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## bourno

Most of my foggers work off the timer remotes, but I do have a 1000 watt Eliminator that didn't. I may have to swap around one of the timers and its wires. And then mark it for that fogger.

Good info and thanks for the tinkering around.


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## Hippofeet

Your welcome!

Kinda awesome I can help someone out.


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## Hippofeet

So I have been running this thing almost daily. I have used straight propylene glycol (well, 90 percent, so, close) to lug down the motor. Generally abusing it, letting it run dry for an hour or so every now and then. No problems so far. I'm going to use this pump, or similar, in other fog machines. 

It will be a while before I reach that 800 hour lifespan on the silicon tubing, lol. But even so, it's really easy to change the tubing with the head of the pump exposed on the outside of the machine, and the tubing is super cheap.

I need to get some vid of the 90% percent propylene glycol fog. It's very, very thick!


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## Hippofeet




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## jdsteel82

Really interested in this as I am sick of all the fog machines lately lasting only a year! I have a chauvet 1300 that has had a pump die on it, and now it only spurts little puffs. Need to clean the HE. But I would rather ditch the store bought units all together


Any chance of re-uploading the vids? also for the truck bed tool box fogger?


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## [email protected]

I'm also interested. I've only used my fogger for one year, but I haven't stored it lovingly so who knows if it's going to work. I need to know how to revive it if necessary!


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## jdsteel82

[email protected] said:


> I'm also interested. I've only used my fogger for one year, but I haven't stored it lovingly so who knows if it's going to work. I need to know how to revive it if necessary!


They are finicky machines...even if you treat them with the most love and care they can break just by looking at them wrong.


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## jabberwocky

Not to hijack the thread, but wanted to share this.

http://www.dx.com/p/33dsb-pressure-...ne-magnetic-pump-90-110ml-303147#.VGXOeNq9KSM

Found this on a site that I frequent for electrical goods.
Never thought to look there for this til now.
Voltage is 220v, but should be simple enough to convert over.


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