# I think I am nuts...pro question.



## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

OK…reality check (wrong people). I am really, really good at showing people how to make money from home through weight loss. I am clueless on the haunt industry. I have been in correspondence with some of the pro’s… registered for all the seminars in Vegas. The wise choice would be to make a two year business plan. Setup an interest earning cash reserve. In two years get a building and props. My problem is I absolutely love this stuff and am having a hard time with what I should do. To solve this problem, I was thinking about buying a large prop every 2 months while working on my own. Have some major kick ass parties, over the next 2 seasons. My dilemma is, will a quality pro prop (1k-20K) last over a 2 year span with very limited use. My biggest concern is the latex.

Roaming thought number 2-
Group purchase
What if I rented a storage space purchased large amounts of the stuff we want to build with. Charge a club due to any one who wanted to buy from the club to cover cost. Prices will be the lowest. Would the vendors kill me? Would this do more harm than good?

I do not need to make money from haunting.:googly:


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## GraveStalker (Apr 19, 2006)

*Storage Conditions*

I have heard that if you keep latex masks/props in a cool, dry, dark place it will last for a long time. I personally have latex props that have lasted 6-7 years without deteriorating.


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## Liam (Mar 23, 2007)

You obviously have plenty of knowledge about running your own business, which is a great place to start. Check out Kelly Allen's book "So You Want To Be A Haunt Entrepreneur," it's a great place to start. Beyond that, make friends with the big guys at Transworld, as many of them are willing to share at least some ideas.

Let us know what you end up doing, it sounds like the gears of creativity truly are spinning...


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks for the pointer...I will order it!
The only things slowing me down... I just bid on another house. It is hard in Vegas to find a nice house not in a homeowners. Thats what I am running from. The bank is down from 900K to 679...buyers big time market. 650 is the magic number. Houses here are still way over price. I also just bid on one of CountryWides office space, since they went down the tubes...looks like I got that one(have partners on that).
If my projected income continues over the next two years...this is a thought. Pick like my favorite 5 home haunters who are game. Give them a weekend here. Give each a budget to do a room in a haunt following a theme...that would be a kick. The creativity that exists in here, with these members, is sure to produce some amazing stuff!...and it would be a hell of a party!


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Sounds great...hope it works out!


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

OK...I will slow down. Get well armed then attack. I almost bought the sleeping giant....next year will bring new beast.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

you will be able to make your hard earned dollar go a hell of a lot further if you make the props verses buy them retail - the sleeping giant (which is def a cl prop) itself for instance cost more than my "pro" haunt last year. if you dont want t buid everything yourself, you could always get someone who can to build you some custom stuff for probably cheaper than the big guys are selling it - im sure many members here would be able to use their talent for that. good luck with everything!!!


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## Liam (Mar 23, 2007)

Tonguesandwich, besides the Halloween stuff, if you're interested in talking real estate with an aspiring real estate investor, shoot me a PM sometime. I haven't purchased anything yet, but think these next few years will be great for noobs like me.

Sorry for the OT, everyone.

Liam


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Not having to make money should help a whole lot. Seriously though, you should expect to lose money, or break even if you are very lucky, until at least year 3. Maybe year 5.
Aside from props, you are going to need a few hundred detailed and fire treated wall panels, costumes. masks and decor. Also sound and lighting equipment, one or two large compressors for pneumatic props. foggers and whatever other theatrical type stuff you need. Fire rated tarps if you plan to cover the haunt.

Any building needs adequate parking, bathrooms, sprinkler system, electrical service that can handle the haunt, a secure box office (or build your own). Location is extremely important.

You will need to store everything unless you own your building. The best way to do this is to use tractor trailers. this way you can easily move your haunt to a different location if needed.

Your haunt will need to be designed with adequate exits and with whatever code enforcement applies in your area. Usually smoke and/or heat detectors, emergency lighting and things like that. You also need to design it for adequate throughput. This is always a challenge.

Operational costs for my medium sized attraction runs well into 6 figures. This does not include any props or any of the cost for the actual haunt. This is labor for set up and breakdown, actors, security and box-office. Insurance, building lease, marketing costs and equipment rental. Also storage costs. Probably a bunch of stuff I am forgetting. These costs can be much higher depending.

For a new attraction in your market, you will probably have to spend between $3.00 and $5.00 in marketing for each customer you get.

Are you aware that a haunt is selling off everything near the TW show on Monday March 17? 

I totally agree that making your own stuff saves a ton of money and also helps you to be unique. Everybody else buys the same stuff every year. I would be happy to help you out in any way possible. I will be in Vegas for the show if you want to talk about things. 

You should also travel to as many haunts as possible this season and see how everyone else does their show. 

It sounds like you have a lot of business knowledge already and a pro haunt is first and foremost a business. You can make money but you can also lose a lot of money. You have to really love the business because it is more work than you can imagine.


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

Brckee1 said:


> Not having to make money should help a whole lot. Seriously though, you should expect to lose money, or break even if you are very lucky, until at least year 3. Maybe year 5.
> Aside from props, you are going to need a few hundred detailed and fire treated wall panels, costumes. masks and decor. Also sound and lighting equipment, one or two large compressors for pneumatic props. foggers and whatever other theatrical type stuff you need. Fire rated tarps if you plan to cover the haunt.
> 
> Any building needs adequate parking, bathrooms, sprinkler system, electrical service that can handle the haunt, a secure box office (or build your own). Location is extremely important.
> ...


Jim, 
You always have a way of summing things up so eloquently...

Seriously, this is some good advice/info...it is more work than you can imagine, but its very rewarding when it pays off.....work hard, get your Business lined up first and it sounds like you should be very successful....


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks, that is good info. Money won't be a huge concern, with those numbers you have, if my other business continues to grow at the pace it is. I would like to keep that in check, that is why I am looking at two years before jumping in. 
I would like to fly out to a haunt and check out the setup and opening. I just need to confirm some dates ( I am on an advisory board for a mega infomercial company). Once I get those dates down, if anyone wants to invite me, for a few days, I will work for free.
As a pro ...do you lose your passion?


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

"Do you lose your passion?" 

In my honest opinion, I would have to say yes and no. I mean when you spend countless hours working business plans, marketing strategies, sponsorship campaigns, working with city officials, it always makes me lose sight of the fun that we used to have as a "home haunter"....but then opening night comes and goes and you remember why you went through those hours of business planning.
I am still as passionate about the season as I have ever been, but it is really easy lose sight of what brought you to this point to begin with. Focus on getting open and it all works out in the end...


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

I haven't lost any passion at all as a pro. As Buggybuilder points out, there are things you need to deal with as a pro that are no fun.

I love the off season, planning and building scares, rooms and sets. Designing the big projects and bringing them to life. All that is really great. Running the haunt is also really fun most of the time. Dealing with an injury or vandals or other idiots sucks. This is pretty rare but I get some of each every year. Occasional technical troubles can be a little stressful but for me, they add to the excitement. People having a great time and being scared, amazed or really entertained really makes it worth while. It's nice when they take the time to find me and tell me how much fun they had.

Between the off season and being operational is the part that I don't like. Constructing 15,000 sq.ft. of haunt in 3 to 5 weeks. Finding and keeping qualified help. Inspections, insurance, city and town officials. Planning and buying marketing is like buying a used car. Several used cars actually. You deal with salesmen who don't give a crap if you lose your shirt and they tell you everything you want to hear but no guarantees of coarse. They want the most amount of money and they want to do the least amount of work. With only 4 to 5 weekends to make money, you absolutlely have to open on time. There are always setbacks and problems that cost time and money. I work 7 days a week, 12 to 16 hours a day. Next you need to hire and train staff. Arrange for security and EMT's. And of coarse payroll, taxes and normal paper work like any other business. It's very physically and mentally demanding. There is nothing fun about those few weeks.

But then I open and the fun starts. Overall I love haunting at this level. I am planning on adding a third attraction this year. I can't wait for TW and I hope to make it to one or two other shows.


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## tonguesandwich (Oct 13, 2006)

You guys are inspiring!


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

couldnt have said it any better myself Jim. just as Jim and john have said - the work load is INSANE. like you cant even imagine it - putting last years haunt together, granted i did not have a paid staff so this means a lot of the manual labor came from a small group of us, was more work than i have ever done in my life - minus tear down which is a whole other monster itself. there are just so many little things that you dont think of - things that you think in the back of your mind will take very little time - end up taking a week to fully get done properly - dont sell yourself short on time cause i gurantee you will be wanting more the day before you open no matter how well you prepare. it is definitely good to have a solid buisness plan before diving in - i got extremely lucky after hearing all the stats from other pro haunts - i broke even on my first year on a haunt that i didn't even have a floor plan/location or a single wall panel built for until late august - - i would defintley NOT advise to go that route lol.

i second that from these guys that the financial and political **** is a real pain in the ass - but that hasn't made me lose any part of my passion at all - rather on the contrary i think its heightened it - granted that my "pro" haunt is very feeble in comparison with the big dogs, it really does feel great to be in the same ballpark with them - just as a little boy has a passion for baseball in little league - it only gets better as he goes through highschool college and maybe if hes lucky the bigs. and another good thing (or bad thing if you dont want to hear criticisms) people are HONEST when they tell you how they liked you haunted house. this is different than home haunts because unless someone is a really big asshole - there not really gonna give you a bad critique of a homehaunt that you do out of the goodness of your heart for your neighborhood. but on the other hand - as soon as the people place that money in the ticket takers hand - you better entertain them or you will hear about it - thats what makes me really appreciate compliments for my pro haunt so much more than when i just had a home haunt - if people pay for your ticket and were happy enough with your efforts to entertain and scare them that they actually let you know you did a good job, THEN you can rest your head easy that night knowing your work is complete.

if i could give any advice - - it would be advice that jim gave me last year in about june - its gonna be a long hard road - but you just gotta jump in there and do it - if you have a passion for it - you can make it happen


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