# Don't know why they're turned off



## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

I just got a call from a magazine that would like to do a story on our haunt. I started answering some of her questions and then I mentioned we were a home haunt with just over 2100 sq. ft of space. Her comment then was "Ok thanks" and hung up.

Why is it that when you mention you're a "home Haunt" the whole perception is changed.

I was messaged earlier from a gentleman of a "Professional Haunt" who will be touring haunts in our area with a convention, he asked if we were a "Home Haunt or a Professional Haunt" I mentioned we were a home haunt and haven't heard back from him.

I think our haunt is pretty good based on what we have visited. I have built my own animatronics and props, with electronics and sounds and lighting.

So back to my question again, Why is it that a home haunt gets the bad raps that they do??


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

I think think that for many, they tend to see home haunts as all being small and unsophisticated, and not worth the time to investigate.
As to the reporter hanging up on you, that was plain rude, she should at least have explained exactly what she was looking for or expecting. On her side of things, she may have been looking for a story on someone who is making money in the haunt industry, but no matter what, she should have shown you some courtesy.


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

fontgeek said:


> I think think that for many, they tend to see home haunts as all being small and unsophisticated, and not worth the time to investigate.
> As to the reporter hanging up on you, that was plain rude, she should at least have explained exactly what she was looking for or expecting. On her side of things, she may have been looking for a story on someone who is making money in the haunt industry, but no matter what, she should have shown you some courtesy.


I agree. An explanation would have been nice. It left me asking questions.

We enjoy doing our haunt and have made generous donations to our charity choice "Inspiring Hearts for Autism" over the last few years.

Our local paper did a nice article last year and many of the patrons commented on it. But, this lady had me wondering why she didn't want to continue with the questions. LOL, even if they decide not to do a story on us, make it seem like you are going to and just say the editor didn't like it.


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## kprimm (Mar 14, 2009)

I much prefer the home haunt over the Pro haunt. Anyone can spend alot of money and have a haunted house. Ordering a bunch of already made props and setting them up is not that hard to do. Now don't get me wrong, I love them all, but if I had 50,000 to spend on pro props, it's easy to set up a haunt. In my opinion I have really grown to love the yard haunt more. To see your every day person designing and building their own stuff and making something awesome on their own, is much more impressive to me. I get turned on by seeing yard haunts and all the work and original ideas in them. Now alot of the pro haunts are awesome too, but different. When you watch videos of them, you see a lot of the same props and scares that everyone else has. I guess I love the originality of the home haunt over the commercial, just go out and buy the props you like of the more pro haunts.This is my opinion. I absolutely love and respect each one, and I wholeheartedly support each one. It's just all in what you are drawn too. I do feel that they are missing out on some wonderful stuff and wonderful people by trying to snub the Yard Haunter.I say heck with them Darkmaster, you can show off your work on the Hauntforum dvd and the Davis graveyard dvd sets, and there you will see some truly original and impressive work.


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the encouragement kprimm.
My biggest problem with the haunt is getting people to volunteer. Haven't found the secret yet. I think the volunteering is the problem.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol: DarkMaster, I will put it to you in the simplest way that I know how. If someone brings you a meal that they went out and bought from a store...you say, thanks, but if someone brings you a meal that they cooked themselves and prepared by hand for you, you are a little awestruck. Anyone can throw money at a situation...only great people throw themselves....just my opinion.

P.S. Just a little equestrian truth...throw your heart over, and your horse will follow......

(also I don't know why you can't get volunteers...I have a huge family....and I swindle them in....)


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## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

I think it sounds like some folks don't understand what some home haunts can be. It's true you can have home haunts that are simple or mostly inexpensive store bought props, but some are fantastic. I've seen props posted here that put many "professional" props to shame. Some pro haunts are mostly actors with limited props, if that's what they want then fine.

It sounds like your caller needs some lessons in manners. It's rude to just hang up like that. I'd understand if they wanted to see some pictures of your haunt before they decide, but to just write off a home haunt, tells me they need to educate themselves about home haunts.


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## QueenRuby2002 (Oct 23, 2011)

Darkmaster said:


> Thanks for the encouragement kprimm.
> My biggest problem with the haunt is getting people to volunteer. Haven't found the secret yet. I think the volunteering is the problem.


We haven't had that problem yet. We just called our freinds and said 'hey want to scare the poo out of some kids and when they go home drink some beer around the fire?" We had more volunteers then we needed.


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## Screaming Demons (Jul 12, 2009)

I would assume the convention tour is part of the Midwest Haunters Convention, which takes place in early June. It was probably figured that since you are a home haunt you wouldn't be set up that early.


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## Night-Mares Haunt (Jan 27, 2012)

I would like to put a perspective on this, as a I am a "pro" haunter, own two haunted attractions, and have been in the industry for about 10 years.

First, I would like to start by saying that I personally LOVE the work that home haunters do. The props, lighting, set design, many times I would even consider them to be on par or even better than some pro haunts. But, before I throw my own industry under the bus, I think it's fair to say the following in regards to that:

Pro haunts often have a great deal of space to contend with, and lots of red tape to deal with in regards to the town in question. Lots of inspections, permits, extra work in fire proofing, alarming, putting up emergency lighting, exit lights, permenantly wiring electric, adding sub panels to an existing building to be in compliance with the International Building Code that states that the haunt electric must be on its own separate isolated panel from the building, and must be deactivated automatically when the fire alarm is initiated. And that's just the beginning. Then there is the advertising, promoting, hiring of your actors, training your actors, purchasing or creating costumes for them, make up, prosthetics, and I believe one majorly overlooked difference between home haunts and pro haunts is "through-put". Im sure most are familiar with what that means, but basically, that's the control of the flow of customers through your haunt. And some pro haunts bring in upwards of 10,000-20,000 people for the month of October. When you are dealing with those kinds of numbers, flow now becomes important and there is a great deal of time and effort spent not only on making sure the design of the haunt is proper so that the people do not bottle neck (it is going to happen anyway!) but that the actors are trained to push the people forward. Its not as easy as one would think. I do not share the opinion that the difference between a home haunt and pro haunt is simply the money. There is knowledge that must be gained in the business that many have learned the hard way. 

With all these increased demands placed on the owners of pro haunts, its no wonder that we dont often have time to make many of our own pieces. For those of us who have a permenant location and do not have to tear down, we can add to our haunts little at a time but with 4000-20,000 square feet to fill, it would take countless props to fill the area in order to be acceptable "eye candy" for most people (this is not only always the case and I dont want to turn my post into a debate about wall to wall props with lots of lighting vs dark haunts). So it simply becomes more convenient to purchase props due to the other aspects of the business that take up so much time. 

Still, that doesnt mean that pro haunters dont respect home haunters in their ability and passion for haunting and for prop building, etc. I know I personally do. But I am sensing a bit of a simplistic sense for what it takes to run a pro haunt. I assure you, its not all peaches and cream. For example, if I built 4 static zombies and a zombie walker, and a few props that move with motors, perhaps a monster crate, etc, I would be covering approx 1 room and one area of one hallway out of the 30+ rooms I have in my one haunt Brighton Asylum in Passaic, NJ. 

Still, I take prop building advice from home haunters and I apply it whenever possible. One of your seasoned board members here worked for me last year and she was fantastic! Not only as an actor, but as a seasoned prop builder (and home haunter herself) and I asked her advice on a few different props. I have no shame whatsoever in asking home haunters about props, their methods for sound, lighting, etc, as the way I see it, the home haunter simply has more to give in these areas since they are able to put the time in. Pro Haunters do not often have the time. Some do. Some are able to do the business end AND add every bit of detail to their haunt. God bless them! But some of us have to do it a little at a time. 

Anyway, I think I wrote on here for quite enough time. I just wanted to make sure I got across that running a pro haunt is not simply a home haunter who now just got a trust fund. If the person operating the haunt does not understand the business, they WILL lose their shirt. Passion and understanding of props, lighting, set design, is not enough. I hope that makes sense.

Rich


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Thanks Rich for your aspect of the industry. At this time our haunt takes up approximately 2200 sq. ft. and is left up all year long, during which I'm able to make changes and update areas. The theme this year has been changed from last year, which means new scenes to be created. Safety is always a factor in any design and change. Smoke detectors are installed through out the haunt, cameras are in many areas for monitoring the scenes and public.
I also have advertising to handle, a website to manage, actors to recruit and train, and sponsors to find to help offset the expenses incurred. Our haunt is treated as a production, so that when the people exit the haunt they will be able to tell their friends about us and come back. 

All in all, I believe we are doing the same thing of entertaining the public and scaring the @$&* out of them.

I thank you again for your comments.


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## Night-Mares Haunt (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you for your response. Im not certainly trying to split hairs, but there are still major differences. Again, I not only respect home haunters and appreciate all the fine work all of you do, and learn from many of you on projects that I just never got involved in (mainly because I either purchased said item in the past, or never learned the skill in question), but appreciate the hard work and dedication to our industry/holiday. Also, these differences are not "good vs bad" in any way shape or form. Im not suggesting that one is "better" than the other. We all love what we do and that is what is most important. But the fact still remains that there ARE major differences. You have a very lofty operation and I commend you wholeheartedly. Here is a list of things, however, you do not need to contend with that might slow down your "prop building" if you were on the pro haunt side:

1. Countless inspections - plumbing, electrical, CO inspection, fire safety, tour after tour of fire officials (not just the fire marshal but teams of firemen coming through the haunt conducting drills under your guidance, answering questions on safety on the fly, health inspection, dealing with the sewer commission (when first setting up the space), as well as dealing with zoning, code enforcement, it just goes on and on. 

2. Dealing with Voice Evacuation and fire alarm panel. This is not required in home haunts and neither are sprinkler systems. This goes way beyond smoke detectors and will eat your time and money. (and if one claims it IS required than I do not see how that individual can be classified as a "home" haunt)

3. Being open 15 or more days per month as opposed to 1-3 days (on average. I am not speaking for any particular individual). It makes a difference in the advertisement, the ability of the haunt to handle throughput, and then there comes the managerial issues that arise from this problem. Having actors in a haunt that runs 1 night or 1-3 nights requires different prep than for a haunt that runs 15 days or more. You must be prepared for unexpected absences, actors tiring out, no shows, etc. Now Im sure this happens even with 1-3 day events. But in a 15-30 day haunt, the task of keeping the actors controlled is much more time consuming and the pre-prep is extremely vital. Again, not minimizing what needs to be done in prepping for a home haunt version, its daunting. I realize. Im simply stating that one needs to prepare beyond the usual means for an extended event. 

4. The fire alarm itself is very complicated. All the electric in the haunt must run through a relay that connects to a separate sub panel (independent of your space). This way, when the fire alarm trips, all "confusing sights and sounds" cease and the emergency lighting (plus the voice evac) all come on automatically. Its a pain in the royal backside and it took MONTHS to get the electrition and alarm company finished with it not to mention the process of getting the alarm approved with the town. This will eat a lot of your time and money. Depending on the size of your event, you could be looking at $30,000-$50,000 or more just for your electric, sub panel, alarm, and labor. Our alarm and labor alone was 10k just to put this into perspective. With that kind of money shelled out, it actually becomes almost a necessity to get inventive with props, which again is one of many reasons why I LOVE home haunters. You guys come up with great ways of making cheap props that look fantastic! Heck, even some "pro" props are "cheap", but they sell "expensive" because of who they are marketing to.

5. a home haunt, to my knowledge, has to deal mainly with the fire marshall. There might be other permits to fill out but I do not believe there are other inspections required unless there is MAJOR work being done (and this is being repeated from what home haunters have told me in the past, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but nobody to my knowledge is putting a fire alarm, sprinkler system, subpanel, or voice evac in their house so the only inspection SHOULD be the fire marshal. I have seen fire marshalls ask for exit signs, which are not too bad. The plastic signs, externally lit work just fine). With a pro haunt, you are going to have plumbing, fire, fire sub code, CO inspection, electrical, zoning, zoning approval, and if there is a problem with zoning then there is the variations you have to start filling out. Then of course all the tax liabilities and paperwork regarding that once the season is over. Im still dealing with taxes/state paperwork from 2011. There is simply no comparison with having a commercial space and setting it up for a haunt and doing a haunt out of your home, no matter how passionate you are. And I mean that 100% respectfully. I for one appreciate the dedication and passion that ALL haunters have, pro or home. However, the differences are still stark. Home haunters who finally make the jump to pro (if that is their wish) finally realize all the things they had no idea they would ever have to go through. They dont realize that the health department is going to come in and check to make sure you have hot water running, and if you arent, you cant sell even packaged goods. Or if your commercial space doesnt have enough toilets or sinks, you might not even be allowed to have the event at all (even though porta poty's are perfectly acceptable. Some towns just dont like them, and will give you nonsense about them. We were told we needed 9 porta poties, and we had to pay $1500 just to get the PERMISSION to use them lol. They called it a "variation". our occupancy load also started at almost 900, then it was lowered to 540, then it was lowered again to 300. Its just the way it goes. You have to roll with the punches. The town may come in and dictate how many employees you must have, or dictate that you MUST have an on-site fire watch (at YOUR expense of course lol) or police patrol at $70.00 per hour. 

So although home haunters certainly can and do have their hands full in some situations, especially if they have a lofty operation like you, it can certainly be a WHOLE lot more hectic, leaving little to virtually no time to build even a single prop. you spend your time filling out permits, on the phone with inspectors, meeting inspectors (which you wait from 10am-2pm and they show up at 2:30), dealing with architects (I forgot to mention that one), and going before the town council. There is so much more Im sure I have forgotten in my novel here lol. Again, this is not meant as a "pro haunts are better, home haunts are bad" sort of thing. Heck no!! as I have already stated, my hat is already off to the entire home haunter movement. The talent, dedication, passion, and commitment simply cannot be matched. But the differences ARE stark, and some are just not aware of what it takes to put on a month long show when you are up against the "code" as I say. The requirements are so stiff now in New Jersey, its a miracle we can even get open. Im wheelchair accessible, my fire alarm is state of the art, I have a separate sub panel just for the electric (with all the electric running along top of the panels). Its amazing to see after all the work has been done, but make no mistake about it, if its your first time putting together a pro haunt, your entire first year is spent simply building walls, setting up your infrastructure, dealing with "safety", and the ins and outs of the town. If you have a HUGE crew you may get to do props and detail but you need a crew for that. You cant be a lone warrior and expect to get that done. It wont happen. Not year 1. I also forgot to mention that once you have all your safety in place, then you have to go back and spray every square inch of your haunt with a class A fire retardant. We have 13,000 square feet so it took about 2 weeks to accomplish this with 3 people doing it. We taped it and sent it to the fire department as proof. I have photos of all the tours the fire departments did coming through the haunt (2 separate towns mind you, as we are on a border). We of course do it in the name of safety and it must be done, but the point is, there is no time for props and detail when you are dealing with that and the hoops you go through simply must be seen to be believed. But again, I do it because I love it just as you all do what you do. We all have our piece of the haunting pie, and regardless of where we fall, there is enough for everyone to enjoy!

And I rambled again lol.


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

If it's publicity you are looking for, hook yourself up to a good charity. You can then send press releases to local tv & newspaper sources who are always looking for a seasonal & 'feel good" story. Just like you eventually learn in kindergarten, not everyone will like you or be your friend; if they don't want to do a story on you, screw 'em. Consider yourself master of your own destiny & seek out the publicity you desire through avenues and people who will appreciate your hard work and creativity!


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Nightmares haunt, I totally agree with you that doing a pro haunt is more involved than some people think. Some of the haunts I been through, I don't think they have had to deal with those things, just judging by their haunt and setup.
But, is that still the reason home haunters are dist as far as TV and/or magazines? I believe there is a misconceived notion here, that home haunts are not worth the time.
Our local paper did enjoy the tour we gave him and he did a nice write up on our haunt and charity. There is hope! LOL


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## Night-Mares Haunt (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh, I agree with you 100% that from the media's standpoint (maybe the public too, I am not sure about that one), home haunts are largely considered "not worth it" when put up against their "pro haunt" counterparts. I completely disagree with that notion. Everyone is looking for someone different from their haunting experience and personally, i find that those who will go to a pro haunt will also go to a home haunt if not for the "eye candy" that so many home haunters put into their overall presentation. I dont have an answer as to why the media simply shuns them, as there is most definitely a story to each and every one. Heck, I have sent out press releases, media invites, etc, and in cases have been ignored myself. I think it depends on the media source involved. 

But I like the suggestion that just came in about the charity. The media will certainly respond more effectively to a charity than to a 'for profit' haunt. That's certainly worth trying. 

Thanks for the continued conversation

Rich


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

I have noticed on the other forum there is a site organizing a home haunt directory. They are looking for submisions for their listings.It's called http://www.betterhauntsandgardens.com/


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Don't let it bother you. I did a 2000 sq Home Haunt, put almost 2000 people through (with no advertising, which was real close to what some of the close pro haunts were doing) and with the folks that went to them prior to coming to mine rated us as "awesome" and "blew them outta the water"....be proud to be a Home Haunt!


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Frighteners Entertainment said:


> Don't let it bother you. I did a 2000 sq Home Haunt, put almost 2000 people through (with no advertising, which was real close to what some of the close pro haunts were doing) and with the folks that went to them prior to coming to mine rated us as "awesome" and "blew them outta the water"....be proud to be a Home Haunt!


I agree with you. Some of the people that did go through, ended up telling us the same thing.


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## remylass (Sep 18, 2008)

I wouldn't take it personal. I think people just don't have an idea of how much work goes into a home haunt. The woman doing the article was just plain rude. As for the people from the conference, they probably just assumed you wouldn't have actors and be all set up for it. I decided a long time ago to just be proud of what I do. It is my hobby, and it makes me happy. If it isn't good enough for others, well, they can go do their own hobby.


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## Deadlands (Jun 13, 2011)

You have less than 30 seconds to impress these people. It's like fishing; you have to toss a tasty worm out there for them to want to bite. Hook them quick and reel them in. We did just that a couple of years ago and got featured in the LA Times. Not only that, but the columnist came out and spent hours photographing our build for the article, and brought his family back on Halloween! And it all happened because we sold it to him in less than 30 seconds over the phone.


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Deadlands said:


> You have less than 30 seconds to impress these people. It's like fishing; you have to toss a tasty worm out there for them to want to bite. Hook them quick and reel them in. We did just that a couple of years ago and got featured in the LA Times. Not only that, but the columnist came out and spent hours photographing our build for the article, and brought his family back on Halloween! And it all happened because we sold it to him in less than 30 seconds over the phone.


Wow, you want to represent us!! LOL
Congrats to you!


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## Deadlands (Jun 13, 2011)

Try not to mention that you're a home haunt until the end. Don't pretend to be pro or anything, just conveniently leave that fact out. What we were able to build off of was a rather large showing of ToT's the year before. We mentioned that we had people from all over Southern California coming together to volunteer for this thing, and how we were all just crazy passionate about providing free entertainment to the city.

So then he asks, "Wait... is this one of those home things?"

And without missing a beat, we replied, "Oh no. No home. The maze _completely surrounds_ the home. You can't even see it from the street."

Dead silence.

"And you do this for free?"

"Yup."

"And you don't have any sponsors?"

"Nope."

How many people did you say you had go through last year?"

"450-500."

Another long silence.

"Would you mind if I come out tomorrow morning to check it out?"

We were lucky. Southern California has been pretty accepting of home haunts. They're practically a part of our culture. So papers here aren't as snooty about it, but it is super hard to get a feature, especially over some of the absolutely insane home haunt talent we've had out here. I think it's because we've all had to learn how to compete with Knott's Scary Farm.


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Good going there Deadlands. We did great last year and I'm anticipating this year to be equal if not better. 
I love how our haunt has turned out for this year and I'll try to  promote it in any. 

We have heard from people that haven't even visited us and found out that they were aware of our haunt. So, we are doing something right to promote our haunt.


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