# What makes a zombie?



## Eldritch_Horror (Jul 27, 2008)

Dunno if this type of thread has been posted before or not. My apologies if it has.

There are many movies out there, dealing with zombies, that have their own definition of what makes a zombie. Some movies have zombies that run fast, others have movies where zombies think or evolve, still others have zombies that talk. Some are undead, others are just diseased individuals.

So, I ask you... What makes a zombie? What movies have done a good job portraying them and why? How would you take an existing formula from a movie and make it better?

I have my opinions, I'd like to hear yours. :zombie:


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

Originally, a "zombie" was someone killed and raised from the dead to use as a slave. After NOTLD, it came to mean any animated corpse. Now it seems people have stretched the term wide open to include anything where people don't behave like themselves anymore and try to bite people. That being said... I need to get this off my chest, I'm sorry...

28 Days Later is NOT a zombie movie!!!

No one dies and comes back to life. They're not the undead, they're people who are rabid and enraged. Note in the movie they're not referred to as "zombies" or "the undead" or "ghouls", they are THE INFECTED. They bear resemblance to Romero's work, yes, but NOT his Living Dead movies... 28DL is like a remake of his movie "The Crazies", where a virus turned people into raving lunatics. Sorry to tangent off on one movie here but I just gotta. If he's still alive, he ain't a zombie. I know definitions change in popular meaning over time but c'mon, gotta draw the line somewhere.

To me, a zombie would be any reanimated dead person without higher cognitive function/self awareness/identity. This would technically exclude things like revenants that are still in posession of their will and identity. A Zombie has no free will. I guess for haunt purposes the term would still be more of a visual description referring to any obviously dead/rotting animated body. But in anything with a story, I would put the "aware" undead just in a catchall group "undead" and describe them as whatever they are.

I guess that's how I see them. Anyone else?


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## Sinister (Apr 18, 2004)

I agree that *28 Days Later* isn't a zombie flick. But I have to wonder about it's sequel though. It seems to me they were going for more of the 2004 *Dawn of the Dead *effect as opposed to the original idea of it's predecessor.

I basically believe that any film where someone was once alive, and are re-animated to sort of a living status qualifies as a zombie flick, at least by the modern interpretation of the creature. I would put in this category *White Zombie* (Humans raised, or drugged into doing an evil shaman's bidding.) *Frankenstein* (The Monster is always referred to this way, or as the Creature, but he's a re-animated corpse for all intents and purposes, with a killing rage toward others. You tell me.) then there's Romero's Dead (Undead corpses with a taste for human flesh.) all of them, to a corpse, are zombies.

Hope this was in some small way helpful. If not, just throwing in my tarnished two pennies as it were. :zombie:


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

A new comedy movie recently made this distinction. A zombie is unthinking and eats human flesh.


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## Sinister (Apr 18, 2004)

Well, a few of us have thrown our opinion into the arena. Anyone else?


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## Eldritch_Horror (Jul 27, 2008)

Revenant said:


> 28 Days Later is NOT a zombie movie!!!


THANK YOU!!! I knew I had come into my own with this forum! 

So far, you've all pretty much mirrored my opinions on the subject.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Since Haitian voodoo priests first created zombies using drugs or poison to control living people, the pure definition of a zombie is NOT a reanimated corpse at all. A reanaimated corpes is just that..It's just been called a zombie by pop-culture, where (and I may be wrong I'd have to go back and watch it again) Romero's NOTLD did not refer them as zombies. If anyone knows which film first called reanimated corpses "zombies" I'd like to know. SO, that being said, the infected people of 28 Days Later can be called zombies as they are more truely related to the original definition.
More accurately it can be said then, that _28 Days Later is NOT a reanimated corpse movie!!!_

Edited....I almost forgot, Romero himself doesn't call his creatures zombies, but rather "ghouls".


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

This may answer your question:

http://horror.about.com/od/horrormoviesubgenres/a/zombies.htm


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## RavenLunatic (Jan 3, 2006)

*I agree with Revenant. I'm not a zombie lol. that being said, I too prefer to think of the slower moving, flesh eaters as zombies. the others just aren't the same. I am a fan of the infected movies also. i just don't think they fall into the same category. *


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Sickie Ickie said:


> This may answer your question:
> 
> http://horror.about.com/od/horrormoviesubgenres/a/zombies.htm


That article is inaccurate, Sickie, in that Haitian Voodoo does not reanimate a dead corpse, and never has. It was used to wipe free will to turn LIVING people into slaves by the use of poisons. They were called Zombi, and is where we get the word "Zombie". A zombie never was a reanimated corpse, and no "zombie" flick that I know of (again please correct me) calls the walking dead "zombies". We call the movie characters, portrayed as undead, "Zombies" but it really is an inaccurate term. Nevertheless, it is fully ingrained in pop culture to call the undead Zombies now, so any reference to them may be taken as such for the purposes of discussion within the realm of so called "Zombie Flicks" to describe those characters. Given that, I can't understand why ANY film depicting the ravaging of free will and the flesh eating acts of previously normal people can't be called a zombie film. Like I said before, it would be more accurate to call them Undead characters, or Non Romero-in flesheaters or the like.

The article also refers to Bela's White Zombie movie, but is misleading. Although the movies does refer to the characters as "Zombies",The movie never refers to them as reanimated in any way.


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## Sinister (Apr 18, 2004)

> A zombie never was a reanimated corpse, and no "zombie" flick that I know of (again please correct me) calls the walking dead "zombies".


Check out the original *Dawn of the Dead*, Doc. There's the part where the bikers invade the mall, and Peter gets on the walkie-talkie with Flyboy and basically tells him, and understand this is not an exact quote: "Let them get in. With the doors open, there's going to be a a thousand zombies in here." And this is in one of Romero's own films.

Another instance I can recall right off the top of my head is in *Return of the Living Dead 2. *The surviving occupants are in an ambulance and have just evaded being killed by soldiers at a blockade. Dr. Mandel says, "What an interesting dilemma: Soldiers in the front, Zombies in the back...think we can stop off for a drink somewhere?"

In *Land of the Dead* (One of the worst Horror films ever made) Dennis Hopper's character says, "Zombies, man. They creep me out."

Three instances right there, and if I think hard enough, I'm sure I can come up with a few more.

I think the reason why you don't ever hear the word bandied about too much is because the living characters are all in a state of denial. They never want to believe something like the dead are getting up and attacking the living. Anything that shakes up one's idea of the so-called norm, will always have a blind eye turned to it, even when the hard evidence is right there ready to tear out your throat.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Sinister said:


> Check out the original *Dawn of the Dead*, Doc. There's the part where the bikers invade the mall, and Peter gets on the walkie-talkie with Flyboy and basically tells him, and understand this is not an exact quote: "Let them get in. With the doors open, there's going to be a a thousand zombies in here." And this is in one of Romero's own films.
> 
> Another instance I can recall right off the top of my head is in *Return of the Living Dead 2. *The surviving occupants are in an ambulance and have just evaded being killed by soldiers at a blockade. Dr. Mandel says, "What an interesting dilemma: Soldiers in the front, Zombies in the back...think we can stop off for a drink somewhere?"
> 
> ...


Cool! I knew you would be the one to know, thanks. 
I still think the word Zombie has mutated though and I stand by my original statement that any previously normal person robbed of thier free will and and eats the flesh of the living can be considered a zombie. But yes, your knowledge ROCKS and I have always respected it. Thanks for the corrections!


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## Eldritch_Horror (Jul 27, 2008)

Actually, they called them 'Zombies' in Shaun of the Dead. "Don't use the zed word!"


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

Using the actual Haitian practice of poisoning people and making them think they're dead so they have no will has been used in almost no movies. The folkloric and religious interpretation of this, that the people are actually killed and resurrected, makes for more interesting horror movies. Most people don't even know that the Haitian poisoning ritual stuff was even real; they think it's all folklore. Thus, when a question about zombies is posed using movies as a frame of reference, I don't even acknowledge the "real" stuff. The topic is movies. I stand by my answer.

Since the "hordes of raveners" type movies are a pretty recent development, I think they might as well come up with their own term for the swarms of psychos instead of muscling in on the moniker of a well-established class of monsters. Zombies were, in folklore, reanimated dead. In the movies they came to mean reanimated dead. The eating people association is mostly a result of the Romero movies; the main theme of the movie was the dead are coming back and killing. And those they kill, if they're not eaten, will also come back. Those films presented the death/undeath cycle as a disease vector, yes, but the dying part was a critical part of that cycle. They'd keep attacking and moving around until they rotted away. Ask anyone to draw a picture of a zombie and most will draw them as decaying. Because zombies are dead.

So , 28DL: If an infected bites someone and they become infected, that new infected doesn't die and come back. He recoils in pain and terror, his eyes glaze with rage, and he becomes a murdering mindless animal. Calling them something like "Rabids" or "Mad Dogs" would be a more logical choice than Zombies... because they never died.

So call me quaint, antiquated, unhip, behind the times, whatever -- zombies are dead. Or were. And now they're undead.


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## Eldritch_Horror (Jul 27, 2008)

Rev, get outta my head! Seriously, as I was getting ready to go to sleep last night, I was planning on writing a similar post in the morning. Especially the part about the Hatian zombies not being a big focus in American folklore.

I do give a nod to it's origins, though. I was well aware of it's beginnings in Haiti (and current areas of practice, both actual and fantasy) At one time, I toyed with a story idea where the floods from Katrina washed out the contents of a warehouse. People who lost their lives in the flooding began popping up as (current version) zombies. I decided not to write it because I thought it may be in bad taste.

Truth be told, when I began this thread, I did in fact have the undead zombie genre in mind. I get so tired of what passes as a zombie these days, I just thought it'd be neat to hear everyone's opinion on the subject. So far, it's been very entertaining, and I appreciate everyone's input.


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## Doomsday Cult Leader (Mar 21, 2007)

look people, we can spend days discussing the origins and definitions, but what I want to know, is it legal for me to shoot the "zombie, reanimated dead, infected semi-dead thing" that wandered into my garage two months ago?

I've left the door open, but it just won't leave. What the Hell!?! Now it's trying to start my mini-bike! I gotta go! Damn zombies...


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

Apparently they can be controlled with festive music. I just got back from Archon, and there was a "Zombiez!" entry in the masquerade. A girl darted out on the stage, terrified, as 6 bloody zombies came staggering out in a swarm and surrounded her... she pulled out a maraca and gave it a couple of shakes, and the zombies all snapped upright. Then the rumba music started, and she danced offstage shaking the maraca to the music as the zombies formed a makeshift conga line and lurched off in single file bobbing (somewhat) to the beat. Very rudimentary costumes and doofy premise but it was a good one-off visual joke and the audience loved it.

Sorry, completely off topic, but I thought of it the moment I came back and saw this thread.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Revenant said:


> Most people don't even know that the Haitian poisoning ritual stuff was even real; they think it's all folklore. Thus, when a question about zombies is posed using movies as a frame of reference, I don't even acknowledge the "real" stuff. The topic is movies. I stand by my answer.
> 
> Since the "hordes of raveners" type movies are a pretty recent development, I think they might as well come up with their own term for the swarms of psychos instead of muscling in on the moniker of a well-established class of monsters. Zombies were, in folklore, reanimated dead. In the movies they came to mean reanimated dead. The eating people association is mostly a result of the Romero movies; the main theme of the movie was the dead are coming back and killing. And those they kill, if they're not eaten, will also come back. Those films presented the death/undeath cycle as a disease vector, yes, but the dying part was a critical part of that cycle. They'd keep attacking and moving around until they rotted away. Ask anyone to draw a picture of a zombie and most will draw them as decaying. Because zombies are dead.
> 
> ...


I thougt the topic was "What makes a Zombie?" I was throwing in the true definition. Whether or not movies use the term incorrectly or rather innacurrately, is irrelevent to what a Zombie is. Calling a duck a goose doesn't make it so, no matter how many movies do it. True zombies are not dead, regardless of folklore. They are not undead. They are poisoned live people, that's a fact and I stand by my answer.


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## Doomsday Cult Leader (Mar 21, 2007)

So I guess I shouldn't shoot it... 
Now where did I leave my maracas?


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I think there's something missing in that depiction. Ravaging free will could also be caused by bewitching....which does not necessarily qualify in my opinion as a zombie. Consider the Harry Potter movie where Krum is in the maze and bewitched. Was he a zombie? If he wasn't.....then what if he tried to eat Harry's flesh, would he then be considered a zombie?

I'm in agreement with Revenant. 

Isn't the fact that something becomes fully ingrained in pop culture, one of the defining factors to create a definition? (I say a definition...not necessarily the only definition.)


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## Haunted Bayou (Feb 16, 2007)

_28 Days Later is NOT a GHOUL movie!!!_

It is about _"THE INFECTED"_

Hmmmm, zombies are dead people who aren't really alive but somehow walk around, have a great appetite and know there own kind.
I guess I'll go with re-animated body. But wait...why does taking out their brain kill them then???? I see some holes in the whole zombie thing.
I choose to ignore that cuz I luvz me zombie moveez!










DarkLore has a good point. There is more than one definition at least for movies anyway, and Sickie has a great link that explains the history of the movie zombie.


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## Draik41895 (Oct 25, 2008)

I realize this about opinions,but you should just see this: http://www.cracked.com/funny-38-zombies/
And also this: http://www.cracked.com/article_1564...-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html


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## Haunted Bayou (Feb 16, 2007)

"Hey, did we mention that half the human population on Earth is infected with toxoplasmosa, and don't know it? Hey, maybe you're one of them. Flip a coin." 

LOL Draik, thanks for the link.


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## Draik41895 (Oct 25, 2008)

always a pleasure


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## Gothic Nightmare (Jul 19, 2007)

One thing to consider that I didn't see mentioned is the fact that the VooDoo ritual / poisoning resulted in the _apparent_ death of the victim. The pufferfish poison used slows down heart rate to the point of non-detection. These victims were then buried and then dug back up by the one that did the poisoning. That is where the "undead" zombie myth originates.

And I agree that viruses do not make zombies, unless the virus does cause death and re-animates the body. Which as I think about it has been used as a premise as well as things like comets spreading radiation, etc.

Fun thread.


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