# LED Lighting



## niblique71

Here is my version of home-made LED lighting. These are pics of the unpainted final version. The entire unit will be painted flat black using cottenballs in the face to keep the paint off of the LED's. The LEDS were installed into 2-liter bottle caps, then soldered with the resister, and then slid into the thin-wall PVC pipe without glue so the can be adjusted (Focused) or serviced. Note that the same bottle caps are installed first and slid all the way inside the PVC to form a "bottom" and give the small self-tapping "Adjuster" screw a little more "Beef" to screw into. The "stems" are the hangers for hanging ceilings. They are fully adjustable without tools and relatively cheap to build. Many thanks to the NJ/PA group for their inspiration and a "Group LED buy" that made these rediculously cheap to build.

UPDATE: I started a Tutorial for these lights HERE. It includes several modifications and updates from the original design seen in this thread. As I improve the design and experiment with other LED's, I'll Update the Tutorial to include any favorable improvements.





































I took these pics during the daytime to show some details. Even during the day the LED's were strong enough to cast a nice pattern on the wall. I'm using a computer power supply (12V outputs) to run them all. I plan on having at least 20 of these made by Halloween as well as many overhead spots.


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## fritz42_male

Nice job - like the use of the ceiling hangers!


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## sharpobject

Great job Greg. You'll have to bring them on the 10th for "show and tell". I really like the finished look that the 2nd bottlecap gives them.


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## The Archivist

Nice and simple with so many possiblities! Heck, just lighting up something off season would be cool.


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## madmomma

Great job, Greg. As for the power pack, how many amps is the 12V? My neighbor has a few different ones and needs to know the exact power info needed for these LED's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Very nice meeting you yesterday, BTW )


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## hpropman

Hey I like that idea. That is another idea that I am going to steal (ahem - I mean borrow) from you. Can you still turn them left and right? Also the screw that attaches the tube to the hanger is it a sheet metal screw or a nut and bolt? As you have said before it is great to see the free flow of ideas from a single theme project on this forum!


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## niblique71

Mad, With VERY few exceptions, any computer power supply will work. All computer power supplies have 3 different voltage connections inside them to run various parts of a computer (3V, 5V, and 12V). Amperage doesn't matter unless you are running a massive amount of lights, or rocking granny's. But power supplies are relatively cheap, so if you exceed the required amperage (too many lights for example), the supply will (usually) safely kick itself off. Just get a second one to suppliment your power needs (Run separately). You won't blow your LEDS with a computer power supply since we have built them just for that purpose. That little resistor you installed with your lights was calibrated just for 12V. We'll show you what wires to connect everything to in your power supply when you see us next time. IT was GREAT Meeting you too, we all hope you can make a lot of our meetings  and thanks for the compliment on the lights.

Fritz, Sharp, and Archive, Thanks for the great comments. Much appreciated.


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## niblique71

Joe, The Hangers swing left to right at just the right tension due to the fact that I used a slightly oversized drill bit to predrill the holes. The screw I used was a 8-18 X 1/2" self-tapping (automotive sheet metal) screw that also penatrated into the Bottom bottle cap for a little extra "Grip". Time will tell if they remain viable for a long term solution.... BUT my initial feeling is that they will last a very long time. Besides, a quick fix if the screw "dethreaded" would be to add a new bottom bottle cap or crazy glue if you strip the screw out. I have some plans for banks of 4- 5 and more for various applications... this setup could also be used in trees, light poles, on houses, pop-up shelters, and inside of props where there might otherwise be issues with space or vibrations. I am really in love with the compact nature of these things and of course the instant adjustability. They do adjust L-R and Up and Down.


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## Joiseygal

I like this way of being able to mount it to different objects. Looks neat and compact. How many total lights are you going to have working on the computer power supply. Also how far in between are you going to distance the three set of lights from the other set? I was curious because I want to set up my lights before the next make and take so I can be shown how to hook it up to the computer power supply.


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## niblique71

Joisey, First off I hope your feeling better... we missed you. My solution for connecting all of the lights is to use those "Malibu type connectors" used for landscape lighting. They are also called "Vampire connectors" because they pierce the 12 guage landscape wire with 2 little metal teeth to make a very reliable yet temporary/movable connection. My whole Idea was to create a very flexible design to adapt and evolve with my haunt. So in a nutshell.... Set up your haunt. Buy 100' (or more) of 12 gage landscape lighting wire. Set your fixtures where you think you want them... run the landscape lighting wire to each LED fixture, connect your hookups for this season and your done... In My case I'll have several "Main Runs" of wire in different directions towards multiple fixtures. If you looked down at my setup from the air it would look like a multi-spoked wheel with the power supply being in the center, and the spokes being the "Main runs"of landscape wire All of my fixtures will be attached to the various "Main runs". Of course they aren't straight like spokes. Each run can zig-zag around to accomadate your haunt and avoid tripping hazards. Some runs might be 20' and some night be 125'. Now, I know that 12 gage landscape lighting wire isn't the cheapest... but it allows for such flexibility because as a professional landscape lighting installer, this system allows for you to change your setup every year and still use the main run wire for several years before it corrodes. The piercing effect of the connectors does allow for the main wire to corrode over time, but if it's dedicated to halloween and only used for a few weeks a year it should last for a long long time.
To answer your other question, My pictures represent a bank of 3 lights... I will probably run 20-30 of these and probably 30 individual spots. so between 90 and 120 individual light fixtures.


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## Joiseygal

I like the mount you have for the light, but I would have 1 to 3 lights on each mount. I figure I wouldn't need 3 lights per mount because I will be spacing out my props. I also would only be using the lights for Halloween so would I be able to get away with the 22 gauge since I already bought that? I wasn't sure if you were the one that said they were going to make the lights yearly for landscaping, but I would really love to see pictures of your setup when your done. Anyway very nice setup and thanks for answering my questions. The electrical part of Halloween I'm still clueless, but I really want to learn as much as I can. I told Joe I'm going to purchase a book from Radio Shack called: Getting Started in Electronics. I'm hoping that will teach me the basics so I will be able to hook up these motors and lights to power sources by myself.


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## Vlad

Looks good Greg, a little flat black paint and you're all done.


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## Allen H

Neat solution to LED's I designed my own last hant season using prewired LED's from Ebay. I was really happy with the results, I love the rich colors they give.


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## hpropman

niblique71 said:


> Joisey, First off I hope your feeling better... we missed you. My solution for connecting all of the lights is to use those "Malibu type connectors" used for landscape lighting. They are also called "Vampire connectors" because they pierce the 12 guage landscape wire with 2 little metal teeth to make a very reliable yet temporary/movable connection. My whole Idea was to create a very flexible design to adapt and evolve with my haunt. So in a nutshell.... Set up your haunt. Buy 100' (or more) of 12 gage landscape lighting wire. Set your fixtures where you think you want them... run the landscape lighting wire to each LED fixture, connect your hookups for this season and your done... In My case I'll have several "Main Runs" of wire in different directions towards multiple fixtures. If you looked down at my setup from the air it would look like a multi-spoked wheel with the power supply being in the center, and the spokes being the "Main runs"of landscape wire All of my fixtures will be attached to the various "Main runs". Of course they aren't straight like spokes. Each run can zig-zag around to accomadate your haunt and avoid tripping hazards. Some runs might be 20' and some night be 125'. Now, I know that 12 gage landscape lighting wire isn't the cheapest... but it allows for such flexibility because as a professional landscape lighting installer, this system allows for you to change your setup every year and still use the main run wire for several years before it corrodes. The piercing effect of the connectors does allow for the main wire to corrode over time, but if it's dedicated to halloween and only used for a few weeks a year it should last for a long long time.
> To answer your other question, My pictures represent a bank of 3 lights... I will probably run 20-30 of these and probably 30 individual spots. so between 90 and 120 individual light fixtures.


Greg can you please bring a sample of the landscape wire and the Malibu connectors to the next meeting as a demonstration? I will not be able to make it to that meeting and since you have them already.


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## wAkethedeAd

that is simple yet great lighting, great post!!


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## The Archivist

"Vampire Connectors". Snort, if there was ever an electrical thingamajig that was designed for us... 

Can you attach a gobo to these lights or are they too small to bother with?


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## niblique71

The Archivist said:


> "Vampire Connectors". Snort, if there was ever an electrical thingamajig that was designed for us...
> 
> Can you attach a gobo to these lights or are they too small to bother with?


Forgive my ignorance... What is a Gobo??


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## hpropman

Gobos may be used, in connection with projectors and simpler light sources, to create lighting scenes in a theatrical application. this page will explain and show some examples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobo_%28lighting%29

It is like putting a lens over the light with an image that you want to project like a slide projector.


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## niblique71

I did notice that my hand made very clear/sharp shadows. But as far as a gobos, HP, feel free to answer that question in here.


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## niblique71

*Connectors CHEAP*

The one concern since I made these lights was how to connect them quickly, reliably, and with a lot of flexability year to year. As a landscape light installer, I immediately thought about those malibu connectors, but they are VERY expensive, especially if I wanted to have 50 of them. So, I made my own based on another style connector that I often use. These connectors allow me to use one (or more) long length wires that aren't spliced at all. Did I mention that they are SUPER CHEAP and exceptionally easy to make.


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## hpropman

There you go! I knew your landscape expertise would come up with something! Nails wood and a rubber band you can't any more basic then that. You are going to have to show them how to make them at the make & take. Did you have the file the points on those nails? What type are they?


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## niblique71

The nails are copper plated weatherstrip nails (#17X 3/4") made by "crown bolt" and found at home depot in the hardware section. The copper allowed me to solder the wire EASILY to the nails, then drive them through the small pieces of "finish grade" 1/2" plywood. Here a few more support photos. I could only post 5 in the first post. Cronologically these are the first 3 pics in the build process.




























At first I was concerned that the nails would bend before I could get them all the way in the little block (Wire attached). Then, when that wasn't a problem I was afraid that they'd slide right out the back as I pushed them onto the wire. They did move a little bit, untill I used a cork to let the tips of the nails fully penatrate the wire. No filing of the nails was required. The soldering made for a clean enough connection that there's no contact on the "Head side" of the nails to short the circuit. It works way better and faster than I could have anticipated.


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## Joiseygal

This looks really easy, but if the nails are exposed to water would it be safe? I leave my display up the entire month of October, so they would be left out in extreme weather. If the kids don't get electrocuted than I would like to give this a try.


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## niblique71

This is the beauty of "Low voltage" wiring. First it's DC and not AC. It's WAY safer than household current. The exposed wires and nails will be "Hot glued" on the top in the final version for a little protection and insulation. You can also add di-electric grease and/or electrical tape to add further protection. I assume no Liability for what is shown, however, I've installed 12V landscape lighting for many years and it has proven to be very safe. I think that as long as you keep the connections out of standing water and away from Metal, you'll be fine. If anyone want's to chime in about any possible safety issues please feel free to do so in this thread.


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## Joiseygal

niblique71 said:


> This is the beauty of "Low voltage" wiring. First it's DC and not AC. It's WAY safer than household current. The exposed wires and nails will be "Hot glued" on the top in the final version for a little protection and insulation. You can also add di-electric grease and/or electrical tape to add further protection. I assume no Liability for what is shown, however, I've installed 12V landscape lighting for many years and it has proven to be very safe. I think that as long as you keep the connections out of standing water and away from Metal, you'll be fine. If anyone want's to chime in about any possible safety issues please feel free to do so in this thread.


Ok cool! I am so glad you guys know so much about this electrical stuff because I am clueless. Anyway this looks great and I'm looking forward to learning as much as I can about it. Thanks!


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## niblique71

Joiseygal said:


> I like the mount you have for the light, but I would have 1 to 3 lights on each mount. I figure I wouldn't need 3 lights per mount because I will be spacing out my props. /QUOTE]
> 
> I meant to comment on this earlier Joisey. The intention of that 3-way mount is to have all 3 lights on one tombstone or another single prop to get a blending of colors for a cool effect. The beauty of the design is that you can make whatever fixtures you want for various effects. You can have a 3-way and aim each individual spotlight at 3 different props, or aim them all at one prop to get that creepy blending effect. Or you can just make a single one as you suggested. I'm hoping my LED order comes in before the April meeting so I can get a few different clusters together for demonstration purposes. That's why I wanted to have the flexibility for the connections. I will make several clusters of 2-3-4 and a few singles. At this point I don't know what lights I want where.... If I am unhappy with a certain effect of a 3-way I can easily switch it out for a 2-way or even a single spotlight.


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## robp790

I know you are using a computer power supply to power these LED lights. I have been wondering about using the Malibu landscape lighting transformer to power a string of these, one difference they output 12V AC power. Will these LEDs operate the same or will life expectancy go down?


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## niblique71

robp790 said:


> I know you are using a computer power supply to power these LED lights. I have been wondering about using the Malibu landscape lighting transformer to power a string of these, one difference they output 12V AC power. Will these LEDs operate the same or will life expectancy go down?


I believe that your malibu transformer output is DC. That's why it's called a transformer, It "transforms" 120 AC to 12V DC so you can safely run your outdoor lights without using special cable or protective conduits. You could easily verify your output with a "meter", or just check the bulbs inside the fixtures that came with your malibu set. I'd bet they are 11w dc or 20w dc low voltage bulbs. If that is indeed the case (and I believe that it is), you can run these LED lights just fine on that transformer. Make sure to install the proper resistor for 12V based on how many lights you have in series inside each fixture. There are many LED calculators on the web to give you the proper value of the resistor you'd need to build these lights. they are VERY simple to make.


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## Aquayne

On an auction site, that will remain nameless to avoid the ire of the powers that be, there is a Malibu 12 volt 150 watt transformer. How many 3mm led's can be run on this?


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## Aquayne

Malibu 100 watt transformer picture by Aquayne - Photobucket

is the 100 watt version. I cannot find anywhere that it is DC. It only makes sense but I cannot find the actual statement or amps.


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## niblique71

*HP- Ohms law question?*



Aquayne said:


> On an auction site, that will remain nameless to avoid the ire of the powers that be, there is a Malibu 12 volt 150 watt transformer. How many 3mm led's can be run on this?


HP, or anyone else, Please assist me in answering this since I don't remember the math. We used 5mm LED's, not 3mm, but I'd guess it's well over 100, Possibly 300 individual LED's. Our group made spots with 3 LED's in each. LED's of different colors have slightly different power consumption, but you should be able to easily run 300 LED's (3-per spotlight, so 100 spotlights) with a standard computer power supply. Anyone Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


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## hpropman

the formula for current is I=V/W (I=current, V=voltage, and W=power or watts). So 12/150=12.5 amps. now each spot light uses 20-25ma (milliamps) so 10 spots will use about 250ma (I am buffering a little for safety) so 100 spots will use about 2.5 to 3 amps. I do not think that I need to take this any further do I? OK one more step. 200 - 250 spot will use about 6.5 to 7 amps. That is about the most I would use with that transformer as a general rule you do not want to push a power supply past half of its capacity. The reason that we use computer supplies is that you can usually find them at curbies or from someone getting rid of an old computer.


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## Jaybo

The Malibu light transformers are 12V AC and not DC current, as explained here in their FAQ. It's still low voltage and as safe as 12V DC, but LEDs are not designed to work with AC. The lights will probably light up, but depending on the quality of the LED they may flicker or burnout much quicker.

You will see a few drop-in LED "bulbs" that screw into regular 110V AC light sockets. These have rectifiers built in that change the AC current to DC current. This kind of defeats the purpose of running low wattage lines in the yard. You would still be running 110V AC extension cords everywhere to power these lights. They would use less energy than a standard bulb. The LED Center has good explanation on the use of rectifiers and LEDs.

I would stick with the PC power supply for large runs of home made LEDS since they can be bought for as little as $25.00 new. If you are only running a few spotlights, then a few wall warts would be fine. You don't have to run the LEDs at 12v. You could run them as low as 5 volts depending on how you wired them.

You can use the LED Center's Calculator/Wizard to help design the circuit you want to build. It will even display a wiring diagram that you can just copy. Poke around the site, it has a LOT of good information about the use of LEDS.


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## madmomma

This is such a neat idea Niblique. I'm assuming all "blocks" will be painted black to blend in. After much searching I still haven't found a photo showing how the "base" wire gets connected to the power supply and what, if anything, the power supply gets connected to. From what I can tell, power supplies have numerous wires yet only two are used to hook up the main LED spot wire. Does anyone know where I can see an actual photo of the LED spot wire connection to the computer power supply?


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## niblique71

Thanks for that info Jaybo. In fact I'll have to check if the professional grade transformers that I use do the same thing. I always assumed that all of the outdoor light transformers had 12Vdc outputs. I'll check that out and report back. 

You know what the saying is:

When you ASSUME something you make an...........Ass out of U and ME. 

LOLOL could be embarrasing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mad, I'll try to get a few pics up of the actual connection to the puter power supply in the next day or two.


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## Vlad

MadMomma, Here is a quick article explaining the color coding of power pack output wiring. http://reprap.org/wiki/PCPowerSupply I do strongly suggest however that you need to test the lines first. We've found some fairly unstable output readings with some of the power packs we've tested. Basically, you're identifying a 12v positive and a ground wire coming from the PC power pack. Then you need to wire nut and secure those to the positive and negative main wires that will run out to your spots. the PC power pack uses the same wire to plug into the wall outlet that it uses when used in a computer. This is all part of the make and take on the tenth, if you need to do it sooner and on your own, I suggest you have your neighbor show you how to test and identify the output power lines. If not, we'll show you at the make and take.


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## Aquayne

I sure wish I could get to the make and take. WV is just too far away. Thanks for the fantastic information and references.


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## Aquayne

22
0.0254
0.64516
16.14
52.9392
7
0.92
42 kHz
AWG gauge
Conductor
Diameter Inches
Conductor
Diameter mm
Ohms per 1000 ft.
Ohms per km
Maximum amps for chassis wiring
Maximum amps for 
power transmission
Maximum frequency for
100% skin depth for solid conductor copper



( when I laid this out it was in a nice graph, oh well)
As far as I can tell the most economical wire to use is security system wire. 22/2 very cheap by the spool.


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## Aquayne

I am still looking for a power supplyl. It is obvious that the computer power supply is best but I want something that I can get. I do not have access to old power supplies. I Have found 12v 6amp converter for LCD monitors. They are only $17.00 including
shipping. They do have the little plug on the end. I wonder how I could get a female and make a distribution box for the landscape central delivery wire. I could then tap into the "trunk Line" with security wire (22/2) to the led spots. The power supplies look like the ones for laptop computers. I use cookie tins as a heat sink for my power supply when I use my lap top. I just set it on top and it difuses the heat very well.


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## hpropman

Wayne you can cut the plug off and just twist the wires together with wire nuts. Just make sure that it is 12V if the adapter is more you will need a different value resistor. Usually computer power packs are what they say they are. I have a few power packs from monitors and they are 12 volts so you will prob be OK with it.


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## hpropman

for $17 dollars though for a few dollars more you can purchase a computer power supply. walk into some of mom and pop computer stores and ask them iff they have any old power supplies that they can sell you - might be cheaper. Just make sure that it can power on without a load attached. some do and some do not. Try to get one with a switch so you do not have cut the wires to make a bypass.


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## Aquayne

Why doesn't anyone use the larger high output LED's. 
I know DC cannot go great distances. Is this an issue for us using 100 feet of trunk line?
I am sure this is why the low voltage landscaping lights use AC.


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## hedg12

Aquayne said:


> Why doesn't anyone use the larger high output LED's.
> I know DC cannot go great distances. Is this an issue for us using 100 feet of trunk line?
> I am sure this is why the low voltage landscaping lights use AC.


The larger LEDs can definitely be used, as long as you take into account the current needs. I have a few of these that I've been playing with, & let me tell ya - these suckers are bright!

100 feet shouldn't be a problem for D.C. volts.


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## madmomma

THANKS for the link, Vlad. I printed it out and will show it to my neighbor who I'll be seeing over the weekend (FINALLY). This was such a big help. Now at least I know what I'm looking for. Getting this for free is definitely a plus. Will bring it to the Make & Take on the 10th! I'll try and get more if I can...


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## niblique71

Man do I feel stupid, I've been using these professional grade Landscape transformers for 15 years and always assumed that the output was 12DC. Apparently most are indeed 12V AC for the reasons described earlier in the thread. My apologies to all for that foupaugh.


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## Vlad

In our make and take in NJ we went with the more common LEDs for cost. $.08 a piece including resistors. We compared a spot with 3 standard LEDs to a spot with a single high powered LED and the three cheap LEDs over-powered it.


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## Aquayne

Makes sense. If .24 cents will do it, why go with the more expensive. BTW last night I went to Lowes and compared prices useing the CPVC fittings, as used in the original article, compared to using the PVC with two bottle caps. The CPVC fittings were tiny and quickly reached $1.00 each. The pvc/bottle cap method makes a lot of sense. Thanks for shareing your inspiration. 

Where did you get LED's with R for $.08 each. I can assume it was a group buy, but still sounds fantastic.


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## hpropman

eaby - mostly from this seller:

http://stores.ebay.com/asiaengineer

we did do a group buy but you can still get packs 0f 50 and 100 leds and share with your friends or save them for future projects.


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## Aquayne

I think the pink looks more orchid and will look great for a graveyard. I think Green, blue and pink will give the best look. What do you think? The purple looks too dim.


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## niblique71

WOW!!!! I set up a few scenes today and lit them with my new home-made LED lights..... OMG..... They are soooooo cool. It's not just that they are LED's and use 1/30the the power of other spotlights... it's not just that they emit nice pure colors and create a wonderful atmosphere.....They are SOOO EASY to hook up, adjust and store!!!

I did discover that I hate the self tapping screws. I kinda figured halfway through the project that they'd loosen up. So I went to small bolts with wing nuts and they are now a super fast and a super flexable lighting system. I'll post pics soon.... I'm pleased as punch after waiting 7 months to see them used for actual halloween stuff. WOW.... sometimes I have to pinch myself...

I used to use 400' of extension chords and many 3-way adaptors and power strips... and have a huge electric bill.... Now... Just a few continuous landscape lighting lines and I'm all set... WOW WOW WOW... so much time saved. and the lighting efffect is 100 times better than 120v stuff. Still looking for good UV LED's

I'll post pics soon...


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## hpropman

LOL Great to hear greg! Now I need to get mine finished up. Crunch time baby.


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## beelce

What a great idea niblique !!! So easy and effective.......


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## Hellspawn

niblique,

how many leds do you have in each spot? did you use standard leds or high MCD leds?

please post some pictures of your final mounting solution with the bolts and wingnuts, ive been wanting to do something like this for the past 3 years and just never got around to it, im finally ready to get this started come november.


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## hpropman

we made them at our make and take. This page will give you the basic design we used 3 leds per cap (soda cap) that fits into a 1 inch thin wall PVC pipe (not the schedule 40 stuff). The holes were drilled into the cap the leds inserted from the rear the leads twisted and then soldered. Test the leds if all light crazy glue the leds in the holes and then cover all the exposed connections in hot glue. Insert into the pipe and then follow Niblique's mounting. If you read through this thread you will have all the info you need to make these.

http://hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=20601&highlight=led+spot+lights&page=15


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## Bone To Pick

Good stuff. This will be high on my list for next year. Thanks for all the info!


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## Hellspawn

most excellent, thanks for the answers


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## niblique71

Thanks HP for answering the techincal part of the question.

As far as my mounting system, the changes I made are as follows:

1) I made the tube 4" instead of 3". This allows you to sink the Bottle cap containing the LED's deeper into the tube. This keeps the light more focused (Narrower beam) and more importantly it makes it easier to keep it out of the TOT's and neighbors eyes wlile still lighting the target. I take great care to focus (aim) my lights to not bother my neighbors or blind the TOT's (unless it's intentional for a special effect)).

2) I decided that I didn't want to carry a tool around with me to adjust the lights throughout the season. I ended up useing a #8X2" bolt with a #8 wingnut and a washer for my up and down adjustment.

3) I drilled a hole in every mounting plate so I could use a zip-tie or a screw to mount to just about anything quickly and easily.

4) I ditched the rubber bands to secure the vampire clips to the wire. The ones I bought decayed after 3 months. I found Black hair ties at the local dollar store. Hopefully that will be a longer lasting solution. Also, instead of just going around the clip I actiually go around the wire twice to help secure the pigtails to the fixtures as well as the vampire clip.

Night time pics can be seen here http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=24210

Here are some daytime pics of the finished lights.

A grouping mounted on my 150 year old oak tree









Mounted to my RR Tie wall: Note the connection to the main wire.









A ground cluster of 6 colored lights for the Gravestones, and two single white spots on the groundbreaker.









Another set mounted to my old Oak Tree. I set these up for ME to light up a frequently traveled area at nigjht as I adjust everything. On halloween I'll spin them around and aim them elsewhere. Note the wingnut on the new models.









Mounted to my new PVC Walk-through tent. Zip ties are the other tinker toy for Haunters LOL


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## Redsand187

I didn't see if you said what size pipe that is. I'm assuming it's 1" thin wall?


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## hpropman

Yes sorry 1" thin wall


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## niblique71

Redsand187 said:


> I didn't see if you said what size pipe that is. I'm assuming it's 1" thin wall?


Yes, It's 1" thin wall PVC and the caps that fit the best are the ones on "Pepsi" products. Coke changed thier bottle cap design so they won't work.


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## GhoulishCop

Argh! I put off making the vampire clips thinking I'd do it sooner or later. Well later's here and now I got to go! LOL! Glad this thread is here. Nice job, Greg. It's all very helpful.

Rich


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## GhoulishCop

Well, that wasn't difficult at all. It took me just a couple of hours to make my vampire clips for all 30 spotlights I have. But, Greg, I have a question:

You said you kept the solder off the heads of the nails because that could create a short. While I tried to do that too, I wasn't always successful. But why would that create a short? Just in case, though, I covered all the connections with hot glue.

Now I've just got to lay out my landscape lighting wire so that I can hit all my props.

Rich


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## niblique71

GhoulishCop said:


> Well, that wasn't difficult at all. It took me just a couple of hours to make my vampire clips for all 30 spotlights I have. But, Greg, I have a question:
> 
> You said you kept the solder off the heads of the nails because that could create a short. While I tried to do that too, I wasn't always successful. But why would that create a short? Just in case, though, I covered all the connections with hot glue.
> 
> Now I've just got to lay out my landscape lighting wire so that I can hit all my props.
> 
> Rich


The way I did it the heads of the nails were pretty close. A stray piece of solder could make an accidental connection. But if your observant and pay attention and inspect them as you make them it shouldn't be an issue at all.


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## niblique71

> The soldering made for a clean enough connection that there's no contact on the "Head side" of the nails to short the circuit. It works way better and faster than I could have anticipated.


Rich, I didn't think I said anything about not soldering the heads of the nails... LOL


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## GhoulishCop

Thanks Greg. I probably just misunderstood what you had written in Post #22 in this thread:

_"The soldering made for a clean enough connection that there's no contact on the "Head side" of the nails to short the circuit."_

Now I see that you were saying you just didn't want the solder connecting from one nail head to the other.

As an aside, I'm having a little difficulty pushing the nail points through the sheathing on the landscape wiring. Do I have the "wrong" type, or is that just the nature of this stuff to protect the wiring inside? But other than that, this is a really flexible means of setting up your lighting. Now I gotta test them out and make sure I connected them properly.

Oh yeah, one more thing: does it matter which wire the nail point goes into? Does the nail connected to the black wire, for instance, have to go into a specific wire in the landscape wiring or doesn't it matter? Thanks!

Rich


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## niblique71

> As an aside, I'm having a little difficulty pushing the nail points through the sheathing on the landscape wiring. Do I have the "wrong" type, or is that just the nature of this stuff to protect the wiring inside? But other than that, this is a really flexible means of setting up your lighting. Now I gotta test them out and make sure I connected them properly.
> 
> Oh yeah, one more thing: does it matter which wire the nail point goes into? Does the nail connected to the black wire, for instance, have to go into a specific wire in the landscape wiring or doesn't it matter? Thanks!


First, yes it does matter which nail goes into which wire. Check the landscape wire you are using and determine which side of your wire is connected to the positive wire of your power supply. If there's no writing on the landscape wire, feel the edges of both sides of the wire. One side will have a small ridge. I make that the positive side. Your main wire might need splices (like a tree and it's branches) to get to various scenes where your lights are. Make sure that all of those splices are all the same with the positive wire having the ridge.

Next, on some of my home-made connectors, the nail tips are too far apart to pierce each side the wire dead center. You need to turn your connector a little sideways to line up the nail tips exactly to the proper width. Some of mine are turned as much as 45 degrees. I then use a small piece of wood on the ground to use as a press-board so I can more easily push the connector into the wire. Have your power supply on as you connect each light fixture. This give you good feedback that you are making a good connection and/or have your positive wires aligned correctly. If your LED doesn't light up you can inspect the piercing holes to see if your tips missed the wire or your connector is backwards.

One last thing, I usually start with one light on the trunk line before it branches out. I make sure that I can always see that light "On" as I connect other lights. This is because it is not uncommon to create a temporary "short" by slightly missing your wires with the vampire connectors. If this happens, remove your bad connection, turn off or unplug your power supply and restart it, making sure that all of the lights you've installed to this point are still working. See post # 20 for pictures.

I hope this helps.


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## GhoulishCop

Thanks, Greg! They work great! I had one spot that kept shorting out the line but once I removed it everything worked fine. It did have me worried since I didn't know which one it was and I had to take every spot off the line and reattach them one at a time (should've done that from the beginning). 

Naturally, it was the last spot in the line. But once I swapped it out, everything worked fine. Thanks again for your help and for a great, versatile system.

Rich


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## hpropman

I decided to go a different route with my connectors I am going to use RCA jacks and plugs for the power connection I feel t is less of a hassle and will pull out id they get tripped over. Plus I can make all kinds of splitters or extensions that I may need. Off the main line I will have a female jack where I will plug in a box on a length of cable with 6 or eight jacks where the led spots will plug in. I will post some pictures as I develop this.


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## GhoulishCop

Joe,

That sounds pretty cool. I like the quick plug-in nature of that. I know that one of the benefits Greg highlighted about his method was the ability to "plug into" anywhere along the line, wherever he needed to, but with a smallish yard like mine (nice 50-ft. cookie-cutter frontages all along our block) easy, in-and-out plugs would be convenient. 

I didn't realize this was possible. I've always wondered why those types of jacks aren't used on all electronics. I mean, trying to line up the pins on an S-video connector always has me worried I'm going to bend the pins. Far easier would be a jack that just plugs right into a hole. I'm sure there are lots of technical reasons why it can't be done otherwise I'm sure it would have happened already.

Of course, you can't beat the cost of Greg's method. I think it was $2 for a box of copper nails and scrap wood. I'm not sure what connectors go for, though I can't imagine it's too expensive.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the pics. Post soon!

Rich


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## hpropman

I figured that if I space the connectors on the line at twice the distance apart as the pigtail on the power distribution box (the box with the 6 or 8 RCA jacks) then I can place led spots anywhere I want. I am mainly concerned with ease of connection and a flexible system. I can also plug a second power distribution box into the first if I need to or even just a pigtail with one or two jacks for that odd placement of spots.


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## niblique71

I agree Joe, that's a great idea for a smaller urban yard like yours. I considered using RCA, Banna plugs and a variety of other connectors. My haunt already has over 300' of wire and I am finding that I am already woefully short of lights (and I made a lot more than most of our group). Ironically, I don't need a lot more wire, I just need more lights.

BUT given that I have a lot of 3-D terrain (overhead lights, ground lights, lights in trees and on my walls and in my hoop house) this system is the most flexible that I can imagine right now. Having played with hundreds of sections of AC extension chords in the past, it's so refreshing to be able to move a light in 20 seconds without needing to "Find" that 6' lead that I had leftover. A modular RCA jack system would work great... but it's total overkill. As a musician, I've had bad experiances with corrosion, bending of the tabs,and general failure of those jacks. 

With that said, I can see the appeal of that connection system, and will consider it in the future.


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## E_Eisenheim

Very good idea. I know NOTHING about wiring/electronics, but I am really considering doing this project for next year. It seems so simple and straight forward.

Joe, do you have any pics of the RCA jacks you used for your setup? I have a small yard as well and this sounds like a good idea to me. Although, the homemade 'vampire' connectors seem like a very usable connection as well.


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## hpropman

The RCA jacks worked great I will get some pictures up as soon as I can. I will try to take some pictures tonight. I have made the power distribution nodes (as I like to call them) very flexible where you can daisy chain one to the next to create your own power grid. Each one has a 5 foot cable on it.


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## niblique71

Congratulations Joe on the success of your connection process. I do like it, yet I still prefer my vampire connectors for one reason only. I had almost 75 LED fixtures this year and I was very short of lighting. As Halloween came closer I had to make choices of which lights to relocate to optimize my lighting. Once I decided which ones to move I didn't need to relocate any wires, or look for additional connectors or junction blocks. I just simply relocated them and re-attached them to the existing wire very quickly in thier new location. My system worked flawlessley for 6 weeks of outdoor use including several changes to the lighting scheme. Upon packing everything up, I just disconnected everything and wound up the three different sets of main wires, all set for next year. Here's what I would suggest for anyoned that is considering LED's for next year. If you are planning on using 25 lights or less than Joe's system would be very simple and practical, especially if you have a solid concept of your lighting needs. If you are planning on using a lot more than 25 lights than My system might suit you better. I used close to 400' of landscape wire this year and had no loss of brightness at that distance. Changing the lights around to get the effects I was seeking was sooo fast and never required a trip back to the "Box" for extra wire or connectors. On a closing note, I am extremely grateful to have such creative minds nearby. Joe's system is a great alternitive to mine. In the end, everyone will have at least two choices of how to quickly and effectively connect thier LED lighting system.

On that note: Vlad, if you read this I need to place another order for LED's so I can begin working on at least 75- 100 more fixtures for next year. I was woefully short of lights to create my vision.


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## GhoulishCop

Greg,

The vampire clips worked like a charm. Very easy to position and reposition where necessary. The only difficulty I found was as it got closer to Halloween and the temperatures drop, it took a little extra muscle and a set of pliers to get the points into the landscape wire.

I'm also down for the next group buy too. While I had enough to light up individual props, the entire setting overall seemed very dark. So I want to build more lights, but figure I may have to go with the floods to set a general mood then highlight with individual spots.

Rich


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## hpropman

Here are the pictures of my RCA power connections.

In this first picture you can see the components. the Power distribution box and the led spots in the background both 2 and 3 spot versions and the PVC pipes are just single 10mm leds I use to fill in here and there. I also have a few battery operated ones leftover from last year but I will convert them all to RCA plugs. On Halloween not 1 minute after I connected the first few spots the wire got caught on my sneaker and the RCA Jack did exactly what it was supposed to do it pulled out without moving the spots










Each of the power boxes had 5 RCA jacks and one plug on a 5 foot cable 3 in the front and one on each side. Each spot has its own RCA plug instead of wiring them together and into one plug, I did this in case I want to swap out a color (two blues and a green for example).




























Here you can see the the first box on the left would plug in the main power line where I had female RCA Jack pigtails they could be spliced in or vampire tapped like Greg does. The double spot plugs into the front of this box. the second power box on the right plugs into the side of the first power box using one of the side jacks. the second (right box) has a 3 spot module plus 2 singles plugged into the side jacks.


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## niblique71

GhoulishCop said:


> Greg,
> 
> The vampire clips worked like a charm. Very easy to position and reposition where necessary. The only difficulty I found was as it got closer to Halloween and the temperatures drop, it took a little extra muscle and a set of pliers to get the points into the landscape wire.
> 
> I'm also down for the next group buy too. While I had enough to light up individual props, the entire setting overall seemed very dark. So I want to build more lights, but figure I may have to go with the floods to set a general mood then highlight with individual spots.
> 
> Rich


I recently placed a covert order for LED's, I couldn't get ahold of Ken and I wasn't sure of the correct procedure to order custom resistors. I didn't want to get it wrong for a group buy. Of course, they sent the wrong resistors after I gave them my voltage and amount of LED's in series.. Apparently you have to do the calculations yourself and order specific resistors (100ohm, 360ohm etc). I had just given them my Values and of course I got stuck with the wrong stuff.

While I was waiting for the correct resistors, I picked up some from radio shack while I was gathering some stuff for my first picaxe project, and started to experiment with my LED's

As some of you know, Asia engeneer has some great stuff, but the LED's we ordered as a group had a WIDE range of brightness between colors. Blue, whites, and Greens were perfectly fine in a 12V X 3(LED) application.. they were very bright and saturated anything I aimed them at. The reds, Ambers and Pinks are totally inadequate in comparison. So I started to experiment.

It seems that with LED's when you double your quantity of LED's you get a VERY Significant upgrade in light. SO I went for a gang of 12 LED's in a larger tube (instead of 3) and I was flabberghasted at the results. They seem to double thier brightness with every doubling of the amount of LED's (I'm sure this isn't entirely accurate but it seemed to be true).

I made a few sets of these 12 LED spotlights and I will be making quite a few more for the reds, ambers, and pink's and even some whites. I also did a few with 6 LED's (inside the original smaller fixtures) and even that configuration really improved the weak colors. Greens and blues seem to be fine in the original configuration.

I'll be posting pics soon of the new lights, and I'd be willing to post a How too for all of the variations if there is enough interest. Most of you Tekkies already know how to make these, but if there's any newbies to LEDS that want to make them, I'll do a complete tutorial. The 12V X 3 LED's with mounting cost less than 75 cents apiece including connectors.

I'm actually planning on experimenting with some of these fixtures for real Landscape lighting. The power savings is unbelievable (Using one computer power supply) and the volume of light seems to be sufficient. My electric bill from last halloween was over $200 lower than the same month last year and I run a LOT of lights.

I'll be posting pics soon.

A complete tutorial will take some serious time to prepare, so if anyone's interested, SPEAK UP. See the first few pages of this post for some insight to the finished product.


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## beelce

Very interested NIB......
Love your work and How-To's....please show us your new 12 vs 3 pics...thanks..B


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## hpropman

Greg what tube and caps did you use for the 12 led spots? I can fit 6 in the one inch soda cap but not 12. Did you run 4 groups of three each one with a resistor and connecting them in parallel running off of 12 Volts?


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## niblique71

hpropman said:


> Greg what tube and caps did you use for the 12 led spots? I can fit 6 in the one inch soda cap but not 12. Did you run 4 groups of three each one with a resistor and connecting them in parallel running off of 12 Volts?


The Tubing was 1.5" sched 40. The caps are another story, good luck finding any. I got lucky when the post office cancelled thier "Cap drive" fundraiser and had two mail bins FULL of assorted caps. I found 20 out of a box of about 800.

Yes the 12LED array was 4 X 3leds with resistors for each. Is there a simpler way to do this??? Every site I could find said no more tha n 3 in series and up to 7 in parralell. Could you at least combine them using a single 1/2 watt resistor??


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## GhoulishCop

Joe,

Will you be coming to the M&T next week? If so, can you bring one of those boxes with you? I'd like to see this up close. Thanks!

Rich


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## hpropman

Yes and Yes I will bring one


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## niblique71

*New Lights*

Here are the results of some experimentation. I managed to get 9 lights into the standard 1" bottle cap and it was actually much easier to wire than the larger fixtures (see pics) with 12 LED's inside them. Both configurations (12, and 9) yielded very nice results and improved the amount of light from the weaker colors dramatically. I also built several of the 12's in white so I could iluminate some overhead props that were just to far away to effectively light with the standard 3 bulb configuration. Overall I'm VERY Happy with the results.

I'm also making some of my lights with very small mounting plates (Wood) since many of my lights will be screwed or clamped in place and a large piece of wood just isn't necessary.


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## GhoulishCop

Greg,

I just have to reiterate what a great design improvement this was. The flexibility in placement and where to focus the light was a big help on Halloween. As useful (and cheap) as the vampire clips were, I think I'm going to look into the RCA jacks. "Plug and play" seems to be even more of a time saver...and it looks sleek!

I like the idea of bigger groupings of bulbs to boost the power of some of the colors. Amber, as you've noted, had a lot less range than the blues and greens. I'm going to need some schooling on figuring out which resistors to buy for my build this year, though. I've looked at those online calculators and my brain melted.

Rich


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## niblique71

Rich, I can make it simple for you. If you are using groupings of 3 LED's, @ 12V, Blues, Greens, Whites, and Pinks work well with a 100ohm resistor. For Reds and Ambers I used a 360ohm resistor. You can check with Joe to make sure I'm correct. If you are uncertain you can buy the resistors with the next highest value just to be safe, but mine have been lit for 7 days now and are fine.

As for Joes connectors I too would love to try them for certain areas in my haunt. I REALLY Like his Idea. However, My haunt used 400' of landscape wire last year and that was with a very efficient layout of the wire. With 75 separate fixtures and another 100 already built, I'll have 175+ fixtures this comming year. I want to try a combination of connections in areas with higher concentrations of lights like my Hoop House and graveyard where I could have 30 lights within a 15' radius. I think his system will work fabulously in that application. I'm thinking about using one vampire connector and wire to link to his system in those areas.

As for LED groupings, Although I prefer the 12 LEDs for it's extra light output, Aligning the LED's in an effecient mannor was SO TEDIOUS that I went with a grouping of 9 for most of my new lights. I found that I could make 3 lights with 9 LED's in the time it took to do one with 12. I'll still make a few more reds, Pinks and whites in the 12 configuration but I'm dreading the process already. 9 is SOOOOO Much easier and you can fit them easily into the existing 1" bottle caps.


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## niblique71

Rich, The calculator says to use:


120ohm for White, blue, green and pink

390 ohm for reds and Ambers.

On a side note, I seem to have a lot of trouble with the Pink LED's
EVERY fixture I've made has had at least 1 bank of LED's go bad. I don't know if this is a product issue, or a resistor failure or what, but It has been giving me grief since I started using them about 2 weeks ago. They do have slightly different values than the whites, blues and greens but the calculator still has the resistor fall in the realm of the ones that I curently have for them (75 ohm). I have NO Idea what's going on there and I'm dissapointed because I LOVE the color. Anyone else have this issue? I should up the resistor value to at least 100 ohms and give them another try.


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## hpropman

I would try the 100 Ohm resistor (1/4 watt will be fine) you might be over-driving the pink leds with the smaller resistor. The resistors that come with the leds tend to be right on the edge of the low side of the required value. I do not have any pinks I may have to order some and see how they look. Are we going to be ordering more leds in a group buy?


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## niblique71

*Butterfly Light art.*



hpropman said:


> I would try the 100 Ohm resistor (1/4 watt will be fine) you might be over-driving the pink leds with the smaller resistor. The resistors that come with the leds tend to be right on the edge of the low side of the required value. I do not have any pinks I may have to order some and see how they look. Are we going to be ordering more leds in a group buy?


Joe,

I already wired up a few more pink clusters this morning. One set was with 100ohms and the other was with 120 ohms. They've been running for 3 hours so far with no failure. The ones with 75 ohms would have shown some problems by now so I think we got that issue licked.

As far as the pink colors, I really like them although they seem to be the weakest of all of the Asia Engineer colors. My tests reveal that you'd need double the amount to get some good saturation at 4 feet. I used two Pink fixture (9 each) and aimed them at the same spot to get a similar strength to the other 9X fixtures

This picture has 7 different fixtures all contain 9 LED's (2-red, 2-amber, 1-blue, 1-green and 1-Pink). You can see the relative brightness and saturation even though the picture was taken during the daytime. The pattern kinda looks like a butterfly.









As far as a group Buy, I'd love to get ahold of KEN to make sure that we properly order our free resistors. I'm not confident that they'll ship the correct ones until We speak to him. I also wanted to e-mail georgio @ asia engineer to ask about Yellows. They don't have any listed anywhere except in a blister pack of low MCD assorted LED's.

In a related question. is there any way to use just 1 higher wattage resistor for these sets of 9? To explain, use the calculator and look at thier schematic solution. Imagine twisting all of the negative leads of the LED's together before the resistors, and then using just 1 higher wattage resistor (Same ohms?) instead of 3 in this series/paralell configuration. I would love to find an answer to this question since it would really reduce assembly time and make for a much neater array. I'm also planning a test for landscape lighting to use a few giant cluster of perhaps 45-50 white leds for possible commercial applications. Even if it can be done, I'm sure there would be a maximum # of leds in this series/paralell configuration before causing the resistor to overheat.

Anyone know the answer to this??


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## hpropman

Greg, Running leds in parallel can be done however I do not recommend it. For one it uses more power that way, you need to use a higher value resistor as well as a higher wattage resistor to absorb the voltage that would have been absorbed by the other two leds in a series circuit, and it can generate heat and shorten the life of the leds. See the links below for an explanation. You are better off with 4 groups of three leds in series (or 3 groups for nine leds) or 3 groups of four leds in series each group having its own resistor

http://www.horrorseek.com/home/halloween/wolfstone/Lighting/litlpo_PoweringLEDs.html

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/led.htm


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## Scarecrow

hpropman, I like your idea of the RCA power connections. I have just started working with these lights and am very new to everything electronic. My question is i came across a bunch of telephone wire and jacks I was wondering if you think the wire in telephone wire is large enough to use to make quick connection units simular to your RCA jacks. Also any suggestion on best place to buy LEDS in quantities of 100 or so of different colors and resisters. also thanks for the links in your last post lots of good info.


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## niblique71

Scarecrow said:


> hpropman, I like your idea of the RCA power connections. I have just started working with these lights and am very new to everything electronic. My question is i came across a bunch of telephone wire and jacks I was wondering if you think the wire in telephone wire is large enough to use to make quick connection units simular to your RCA jacks. Also any suggestion on best place to buy LEDS in quantities of 100 or so of different colors and resisters. also thanks for the links in your last post lots of good info.


I'll let Joe (Hpropman) answer the first part. as for the second part, Joe and I got ours at http://stores.ebay.com/Asia-Engineer . Unfortunately they are on vacation for the next two weeks so you'll have to wait to order them. Also, you have specify your free resistor values depending on your application.

If your using 3 LEDS on 12V, The calculator says to use:

120ohm for White, blue, green and pink

390 ohm for reds and Ambers.

If a resistor isn't available with the exact value than use the next highest value you can find on thier site.

NOTE: Be careful about the "K ohms" when shopping for resistors. When you see a 33K ohm resistor, the "k" is short for thousand. so a 33K ohm resistor is a 33,000ohm resistor and NOT a 33 ohm resistor.

Hope that helps till Joe answers the first half.


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## The_Caretaker

Telephone should work fine, i believe most telephones use 12 volts low amperage, which should be equivalent to LEDs


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## hedg12

Telephone wire is (generally) 24 gauge which has a max free air amp rating of 3.5. So as long as you keep your total current per conductor below 3.5 amps & don't cram a bunch of it some place with no air flow (heat de-rates the amp rating) you'd be OK. For safety's sake, I'd stay well below 3.5 amps - maybe limit it to 2 - 2.5 max.
POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) lines are 48 volts DC. Not sure about the current, but it's not much.


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## Haunted Spider

I have been reading through this post as well as the group make and take you guys did. As a newbie to LED spot creation, connecting the dots is a little tough. I have gone on websites posted and looked at every picture but trying to figure out what exactly is going on is not the easiest. 

Is there a how to page I am missing that goes step by step through your make and take? I would like to see what size holes you drilled, where you apply the glue, what end of which LED gets soldered to the next, which side the resistor goes on and why, How to make sure you don't get them backwards, how to tell the difference in the resistor values, etc. 

Asking too much? I want to be able to create these. I am just trying not to start my front yard on fire in the process


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## niblique71

*LED lights, Complete Tutorial*

Go here LED SPOTLIGHT TUTORIAL for a complete tutorial, and keep a watch on the thread. It's still "In progress" but it can help you get started.

You'll need to gather the bottle caps and that can take some time, so check out the thread and start collecting the specific bottle caps shown in Part 1.

I've been taking a ton of pics of the process, and will keep everyone updated as the tutorial get's completed.


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## hpropman

Spider climber this is the basic circuit that we used (we used 3 leds instead of four but the circuit is the same)










Here is the thread with a more information from the make and take it is a long thread but there a lot of good information in there:

http://hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=20601

Here is a link to my photobucket album with more pictures

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v147/jmalt31/Halloween Props 3/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20

Here is a website about learning electronics if you read the sections on resistors and leds you will understand better.

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/index.htm

Some tips that we found make construction easier:

Never hook a led to a power source without a resistor (you will burn it out)

Resistors do not have a polarity they can be used either way.

The leds are inserted from the back of the cap, soldered, tested and then glued in with crazy glue. After clipping the extra lead length short we sometimes coat them in hot glue to seal them. (if you have a drain hole in bottom rear your pipe this is not really needed).

In the rear cap (the cap at the bottom) of the pipe I drill a hole above the middle so that it does not hit the bolt that is holding the pipe to the ceiling wire bolt. Place the bolt through the cap so that is does not get pushed down into the pipe while you drill this hole.

The bolt that holds the pipe is drilled through the pipe and the rear cap.

Before you solder the wires to the completed led cap run the wire into the back of the pipe through the upper hole and I tie a small not in the wire so that when it is pulled back into the pipe the stripped ends of the wire are about 1/4 inch from the front end of the pipe.

Leds can only work one way (the longer lead the anode is the positive) - see the picture above.

If you hook a led up backwards you will not hurt the led it will just not light

The resistor can go on either end of the soldered led string (3 leds) the negative (cathode) end or the positive (anode) end.

when soldering the resistors to the led leads bend the leads of both into a small hook or loop and hook together before soldering (makes it so much easier) same thing when you are soldering the wires to the leads

When solder leds to other leds twist the leads together once or twice (not to tight).

If you have any oth4er questions please ask away. If you still need the how to I will try to put one together for you. We will be making these with 9 leds instead of three (3 groups of three with the resistor). The resistor value depends on the color of the leds and their specs.


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## hpropman

niblique71 said:


> Go here http://hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=25530 for a complete tutorial, and keep a watch on the thread. It's still "In progress" but it can help you get started.
> 
> You'll need to gather the bottle caps and that can take some time, so check out the thread and start collecting the specific bottle caps shown in Part 1.
> 
> I've been taking a ton of pics of the process, and will keep everyone updated as the tutorial get's completed.


Thanks Greg I forgot about that one.


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## hpropman

I do not see why not they should work fine. The wire is well within spec. Greg already answered the question about getting the leds and the resistor values.



Scarecrow said:


> hpropman, I like your idea of the RCA power connections. I have just started working with these lights and am very new to everything electronic. My question is i came across a bunch of telephone wire and jacks I was wondering if you think the wire in telephone wire is large enough to use to make quick connection units simular to your RCA jacks. Also any suggestion on best place to buy LEDS in quantities of 100 or so of different colors and resisters. also thanks for the links in your last post lots of good info.


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## Haunted Spider

Thanks for the responses. I will be watching the tutorial unfold Niblique. I have to wait two weeks for Asia Engineer anyway, plus ship time for LEDs. I am excited to employee this into my haunt this coming year. I used spots this last year which were 75 to 100 watts and although they worked, they just didn't give me the glow I was looking for and many things looked dark. I plan on fixing this soon


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> Being in the landscape business as you are, is there a certain type of wire you would suggest say the 12-2 over the 16-2 or a brand which you would steer clear of vs buying?


 I opted to answer your question in this thread.

Unless you use Joe's connection system, I would recomend the 14-2 landscape wire for the main trunk wire (Main power supply wire to the individual lights) which could be up to 400' long. Landscape wire is designed to be pierced by vampire connectors since it has a certain width (and apparantly has modified sheathing). Smaller wire could be used but is difficult to get the vampire connectors to make a good connection. To be sure, the MOST expensive part of My version of an LED build is the Landscape wire. I think I got a roll of 250' of 14-2 for $65 last year and used every bit of it (X-2). The difference between our connection systems is, I can hook up 175 lights and my "main wire" cost will most likely be the same. In Joes system to add more lights you will ALWAYS need to add more RCA connectors and More wire. I'd bet I could figure out at what point the costs would balance out but I'd bet it's somewhere between 50 and 60 l.ights. His system is FANTASTIC for small yards.

For the pigtails to connect the actual lights to the trunk line, (the wires from the LED's to the main power wire [usually less than 4' long]), you can use outdoor telephone wire and separate the wires within the sheath as I will explain in the Tutorial

Joe and I will be happy to answer any question about LED's in this thread as I'm trying to keep the tutorial thread relatively unpolluted until it's completed and edited. Meanwhile. start collecting those bottle caps. BE sure to test them in a section of the 1" thinwall PVC untill you become familiar with the type of cap that will work best.


----------



## Scarecrow

Thank you everyone for the fast response and great info. I will try the telephone connectors they are supper cheap at the local dollar store. 1 to 5 connectors for 50 cents and 50 foot of cord which i can cut in half so i will have 2 25 foot leeds for 50 cents also. I am very excited about changing my lighting over to leds this year. Thanks again


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## niblique71

Scarecrow said:


> Thank you everyone for the fast response and great info. I will try the telephone connectors they are supper cheap at the local dollar store. 1 to 5 connectors for 50 cents and 50 foot of cord which i can cut in half so i will have 2 25 foot leeds for 50 cents also. I am very excited about changing my lighting over to leds this year. Thanks again


I didn't initially understand what you were asking when you were asking about phone lines. If I am correct you want to create a replacement for a connection system using phone line with standard phone jacks?? That could be SUPER COOL. I personally have about 35 units of 20' long auxilliary phone cables with jacks from old phone systems. This could have several applications... Not just connecting the lights in a system that is similar to Joes RCA setup,Phone cables are routinely availible in LONG lengths cheaply (20' or more). It also could allow a 2 or more channel auxillary setup for controlling lights that do interesting things (Blinking, alternate flashing etc) from a considerable distance with a microcontroller or simple circuits. That Could be interesting. First we need to see how weatherproof (or corrosion proof) the phone connections are using standard jacks and cables. Are you up for that task??


----------



## Haunted Spider

Thanks for the response. Looking at your pictures in different threads, it looked like really thick wire which is why I asked. I guess the sheathing on it is thick is all.

I was thinking about the vampire clips that Ghoulish was worried about soldering too close and creating a spark. Would it be possible to use a 1x3 piece of wood, drive a nail through the board 2 inches apart and mount the wood longways on the wire so the connections are no where near together but would still hit each wire? Here is a rough drawing of what I am talking about. Not sure if it would work.


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## hpropman

Why would you need to do that if you are really worried about a short you can place a drop a hot glue on the nail heads where the wires are soldered. We are only talking about 12 volts here not enough voltage or current to do any arcing. The computer power supplies have protection circuits anyway and will just shut down if that happens anyway. If by chance you get a blob of solder that touches you can reheat the solder and suck the extra away, solder can also be clipped with a diagonal cuter (watch your eyes), and it can also be filed. I file all of my circuit boards after soldering to knock off any sharp edges.


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## Haunted Spider

I am not saying you have to do this, it is just the route I am most likely going to go. Having the nails that close together is how any vampire clip is made, but if I am not using a commercial grade clip, i want a little play in my clips. Driving the nails close together works but you have to get the angle right or you put it slightly sideways to catch the wire, as niblique posted in another thread, or maybe earlier in this one. 

The way I am looking at doing it, you put one nail through and then push the other through and it gives you more play. Also having the nails a little farther apart would help keep the exposed nail through the bottom of the wire from getting smashed to the side and touching the neighboring nail creating a short. 

I just wanted to throw out my take on the clip and what I will probably do.


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## hpropman

please show us some pictures when you make them


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## Haunted Spider

Will do, but that will be a few weeks at least. Still waiting to see the complete tutorial from Niblique.


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## Scarecrow

> I didn't initially understand what you were asking when you were asking about phone lines. If I am correct you want to create a replacement for a connection system using phone line with standard phone jacks?? First we need to see how weatherproof (or corrosion proof) the phone connections are using standard jacks and cables. Are you up for that task??


Niblique,
Ya, you got it standard phone cable and jacks. Glad to hear you think this might work, best of all this stuff is on deep discount at about every dollar store i have been to lately. I know they wont be water tight just as they set but with a little precaution on where i lay the connections I think this can be overcome easily. I will try and wire some up this weekend and let you know the outcome. Do you agree that since the wire is not stranded extra effort in securing the wire to the light housing should be taken as to not break the wire from excessive bending.
Also thanks for taking the time and doing the LED Stotlight Tuturial cant wait for the next installment.


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## hpropman

you can water proof with these ziploc containers. you can flip them over and mount the jacks to the top (bottom that is flipped over) maybe a little silicone if needed. you can drill holes in the lid and have the connections up off the ground inside the container. they are only a few dollars for like five of them.

http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages/ContainersSmartSnapSeal.aspx


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## Jaybo

hpropman said:


> you can water proof with these ziploc containers. you can flip them over and mount the jacks to the top (bottom that is flipped over) maybe a little silicone if needed. you can drill holes in the lid and have the connections up off the ground inside the container. they are only a few dollars for like five of them.
> 
> http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages/ContainersSmartSnapSeal.aspx


Yep, place the connections inside the ziploc or glad containers, seal the holes, smear Amazon.com: PERMATEX DIELECTRIC GREASE - PERMATEX - 22058: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51rVXlx1OVL over the connections (same stuff the auto parts store sells you to coat your taillight bulbs), and then close it up. The grease will keep the water out of the connection, plus keep the contacts from corroding. You might be able to just coat the connections in the grease alone, if you keep the connection up off of the ground.


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## Haunted Spider

I like the idea of the phone connectors but here is one thought. I work in construction as a safety manager. On a hospital job, the roof leaked into a data room. It got onto the end of the cables. The company said the warranty was voided for the entire cable as it could cause corrosion up the line. All of the cable had to be removed and put back in, Miles of it was thrown away.

Maybe the manufacturer knew something about moisure on an open end. I don't know. Just my observation. Personally I hope it works flawlessly so I can try to impliment it.

hPropman, I fixed the link to the drawing of the vampire clip I was looking to make. Hopefully you can see it now.


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## niblique71

hpropman said:


> Greg what if you pre drill the nail hole with a hole about half to 3/4 the diameter of the nails using the drill press. that should eliminate drifting and wire alignment issues. you can make a jig for the drill press to line up the holes for the correct spacing. Also what about those plastic boards that they use for decks these days. that would eliminate the painting and the sealing of the blocks.


I thought about "Trex" decking. I think it's 1" thick. Too thick for the nails. BUT...... Now that I think about it, You could use a larger drill bit to drill halfway through the material, use a punch to drive the nails the rest of the way into the countersunk holes, and then fill them with hot glue to protect the wires and the nail heads when your finished. Pilot holes for the nails themselves would have to be VERY Small (perhaps less than 1/16"). My experience with tiny drill bits is that they flex a little, and break a lot. With care, it could be done. Maybe I'll give that a test tomorrow. I'd like to get this right before too many people invest a lot of time in the build. Not that my original idea won't work, I just think it can be better. Thanks for the Input Joe.


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## hpropman

you might be able to cut some 1 x 1 strips and then rip the strips on the table saw to the size that you need or even on the router table.


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## Scarecrow

The Telephone line and connectors seemed to work. Did this little test run today, but boy was that phone line small to work with. I had a lot of trouble getting it stripped without breaking the small strands of wire. and trying to solder it was a trick, only the second time using a soldering iron, but I think I got it and the phone connections seemed to work great. here's a picture, I think this picture will come up.


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## niblique71

Wow, that could be promising!! Looks Good SC


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## hpropman

There you go another modular power distribution system! Nicely done!


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> Thanks for the response. Looking at your pictures in different threads, it looked like really thick wire which is why I asked. I guess the sheathing on it is thick is all.
> 
> I was thinking about the vampire clips that Ghoulish was worried about soldering too close and creating a spark. Would it be possible to use a 1x3 piece of wood, drive a nail through the board 2 inches apart and mount the wood longways on the wire so the connections are no where near together but would still hit each wire? Here is a rough drawing of what I am talking about. Not sure if it would work.


Hey Spider, I just saw your refreshed image of your Vamipre Clips. Undortunately they won't work as drawn because the wire flexes and the connections won't be secure with one zip tie in the middle. Actually it WILL work with two zip ties, one over each nail.

Here's a picture of my setup (not the pic I will use for the tutorial). 









The reason these work so well is because the retainer (hair tie) has direct and even pressure over the nail tips. Note how the retainer is wound around the wire and then back to the block. this creates a VERY secure connection. If you wanted, you could make your clips just a little wider and drive the nails at 45 degrees from each other instead of being paralell like the picture shows. That would solve any concerns and still have nice secure connection. As Joe said though, it shouldn't be an issue.

Also, I wanted a system that needed NO TOOLS or non reusable parts. Zip ties are very secure but you need to cut them to remove them. I throw a handfull of hair ties and a small piece of plywood (for something to press against) in my pocket and that's all I need to complete the connection. BTW You don't need to drive these in very deep to make a secure connection. the copper nails only have to make good contact with the copper inside the landscape wire. Rich had mentioned needing plyers to make the connections with his, and I've not experianced the difficulties that he experienced, even in the colder weather approaching halloween.


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## niblique71

*LED TUTORIAL FINISHED (well pretty much)*

7 days of constant typing and taking pictures and I'm finally done with the main part of my LED TUTORIAL. It was a lot of work but I think it will be very helpful to anyone that wants to experiment. It still needs some tweaking but it's close.

Feel free to read it and make comments/suggestions in this thread. I know there are quite a few grammatical errors that I will correct over time.

Any Feedback?? If something wasn't clear, or there is a picture that could be added or changed please help me make this better.

I might need a little help on the computer power supply hacking. I know how to do it myself, but there's a lot more information to be learned than what I might be able to deliver on my own.

Thanks for your patience.


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## hpropman

Greg when I do mine I solder the resistor to the led first using the helping hands withe the leads hooked together, then I insert the leds in the cap, twist and solder them together, then test them before I glue them. Sometimes I just use the hot glue and do not even bother with the super glue. The hot glue holds them just fine.


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## niblique71

*LED Testor*

OK it's Official, I have WAY too much time on my hands in the winter time.

I had taken out my old lights to inspect them, test them, and upgrade them. I also had a few stray LED's which I couldn't identify the colors. Holding a resistor while checking these things was a pain. So I made this little contraption using a 12V wall wart, some heavy gauge copper wire, a micro-LED (resistorized), and a spare 580 ohm resistor.









On the left is straight 12V to test finished lights and other 12V items (small Motors?). On the Right is a resistor with high enough value to test most Single and multiple NON-resistorized LED's without any damage. I added the small LED in the front so I would know when the contraption was live (plugged in).









For more complex LED patterns, I have some spare alligator clips (and wire) to test those arrays before they are fully completed.

I NEED to get a LIFE!

It works GREAT though, and would have helped a lot in my LED build.


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## hpropman

Here is the led tested that we used at the make and take. It used a 9 volt battery instead of a wall wart. I used foil tape on the wood and just used screws to attach the wires and the resistor to the foil tape. Note the two angled blocks have a small piece of cardboard in between them to create a small gap to prevent a short.


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## niblique71

There were several requests for an LED TUTORIAL. The main construction part is more or less finished. I've edited several sections and probably need to edit it some more. I still need to add a post or two to cover power supply hacking, Effective use of the wire, Making branches etc.

Has anyone read it??

Comments?? Suggestions?


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## Haunted Spider

I have read through it and it is very informative. 

Being new at the whole LED scheme, I don't know much about resistors. I can figure out how much they are for through a calculator I believe, but when soldering them on, do they have to be directional and if so how do you know which end is which?

I have a feeling i am going to screw up the polarity and mess up the lights in the process. 

I am also looking forward to the power supply hack. That intrigues me right now.


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## Jaybo

Spiderclimber said:


> I have read through it and it is very informative.
> 
> Being new at the whole LED scheme, I don't know much about resistors. I can figure out how much they are for through a calculator I believe, but when soldering them on, do they have to be directional and if so how do you know which end is which?
> 
> I have a feeling i am going to screw up the polarity and mess up the lights in the process.
> 
> I am also looking forward to the power supply hack. That intrigues me right now.


Use the LED Array calculator here to calculate the proper resistor needed. The calculator will also generate a wiring diagram for you.

Don't worry about the orientation of the resistor. Current can flow either way through the resistor itself, so you can't install it backwards. As far as which lead of the LED to solder to, I generally attach to the negative lead. Not sure if it really matters. Just make sure which ever lead you decide to use, you use that on all of the LEDs in the circuit.

Plus, when you are looking at an LED you will notice that the leads are of different lengths. The shorter lead is the negative, or cathode lead. The other is the positive, or anode lead. Also, when using the standard round LEDs, there is a round ring around the base of the LED. This ring has a flat spot next to the negative lead of the LED.


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> I have read through it and it is very informative.
> 
> Being new at the whole LED scheme, I don't know much about resistors. I can figure out how much they are for through a calculator I believe, but when soldering them on, do they have to be directional and if so how do you know which end is which?
> 
> I have a feeling i am going to screw up the polarity and mess up the lights in the process.
> 
> I am also looking forward to the power supply hack. That intrigues me right now.


Spider, Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Resistors are bi-directional, so you can't mess that part up. Also, you can put the resistor anywhere in the circuit, I just found it easier to put them on the negative (Short) stem of the LED. NEVER test ANY LED without a resistor, you will burn them out instantly.

As for Polarity of the LED's, Just go slow at first, untill you make a few and test them. I test EVERY ONE once they are in the cap and soldered. Joe made a VERY Simple testor shown a few posts ago. Your LED's won't light if you have even one of them reversed. You won't damage them by reversing them.

To make it easier to orient the LED's, I place the cap on a table with one of the holes in a specific orientation (Pick your own?), Then I install my first LED with the Long (+) lead to the left (Again pick an orientation as long as you can repeat it). Rotate the cap 1/3 so the next hole is in the same position and install your next LED the exact same way. Rotate 1/3 more, and repeat. Then inspect using the same process. then glue them in place with the cheapo super glue.

I like using the Super Glue method, since it makes twisting the LED's together much easier afterwards. Joe's Method is perfectly acceptable as well. I just wanted to pick ONE METHOD for the complete assembly so it would give a nice concrete way of teaching the concepts. Once you build a few, I'm sure that you and others will find thier own way that is better.

As for computer power supply Hacking. I used this 



 on Youtube, and managed to do my first hack without any help. The Video is a bit clumsy and wordy (like me?? LOL), BUT the process is explained very well in parts 1 and 2. Youtube will also recommend other videos that are very informative.

Some CPS's already have an On/Off switch which makes the hack EVEN EASIER. In this case you won't need to install a switch, and you (probably) won't need an indicator light. For some reason, many CPS's need a load (one LED) to start up. My first hack didn't have an On Off switch, but it DID have a built in Indicator Light.

Hope this helps.


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## niblique71

Thanks for the ASSIST Jaybo. I don't type fast enough LOL.


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## Haunted Spider

Glad you posted the power supply video. I was thinking the powersupply was the little plug in pack you use for a laptop. This is way different and will take a bit more to hook it all up. I need to find a good schematic of what wires do what and how to hack it. Luckily, my uncle owns a computer repair company so hopefully he will have a few laying around. 

Still collecting bottle caps, this will be the end of my sanity I think.


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> Glad you posted the power supply video. I was thinking the powersupply was the little plug in pack you use for a laptop. This is way different and will take a bit more to hook it all up. I need to find a good schematic of what wires do what and how to hack it. Luckily, my uncle owns a computer repair company so hopefully he will have a few laying around.
> 
> Still collecting bottle caps, this will be the end of my sanity I think.


LOL Spider, It is rather funny how this bottle cap collection affects you. I find myself choosing drinks in the deli just based on what caps are on the bottles.

But here's a helpfull hint on the caps and power supplies..... NETWORKING.

Since I've been doing this for a year I can instantly identify which caps I want and I mention it to all of my friends. I'll see the correct cap on a friends beverage container and ask them if they drink a LOT of that. You will be surprised at how many of your friends will help you if you just speak up. YES, a few will give you the ULTIMATE funny look, But, most people really get it, especially if you mention that your lights are "Environmentally Green(er)". My dad gave me two bags of caps which he religiously saved for me, and I had a few friends do the same thing. I also always keep my eyes peeled on recycling day, as well as recycling bins at work, and always find a few. It can get kind of addictive in an geeky kinda way.

The same thing applies to the power supplies. I ask friends if they have old computers. I usually get one or two that way. But after a while you might get a motherload. I have a good friend stop by last week and dropped off 7 of 'em. Just speak up and put the word out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for hacking your power supply, Make a rudimentary testor by using a 9V battery. If your array of 3 has a resistor already attached you can use the 9V battery to see if they light up. Touch the long leg of your finished grouping to the positive button on the 9V battery, and the short leg with the resistor to the negative button on the battery.. They won't be as bright, but they WILL Light if you wired them correctly. You now have a testor for your CPS. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for hacking a CPS, it really is easier than you think. First, test your power supply to make sure it's working just by plugging it in. If it has an On/Off switch, turn it on. If you see/feel a fan working inside it, and/or an indicator light (Sometimes in the button itself), it's likely that it is working just fine.

Just note this: if it already has an On/Off switch, the hack is the easiest, and you probably don't even need to open the power supply up.

You can do a quick test by sliding the legs of your tested (finished) LED grouping into one of the clips of your power supply in the following mannor. Pick a small clip with 4 wires (Usually used to power up a hard drive), Slide the positive (long) leg of your LEDs into the spot where the yellow wire is attached, and the short leg with the resistor into the slot where a black wire is. It should Light the LED array. If it doesn't light try plugging the LED's opposite just in case you soldered the resistor on differently. You WON"T hurt the lights by hooking them up backwards, they just won't light. If Your LED's work than your already pretty much ready to go. Pick any clip with 4 wires, cut the clip off, Strip the yellow and one black wire, and your ready to go. For Halloween you will attach your Landscape wire (or other connection system) to JUST THESE TWO WIRES.

If you don't have an On/Off switch, the thing to look for is the Green wire comming out of the back of your CPS (not all CPS's have them, but most do). In this case, a Simple hack would be to cut the green wire and one black wire (near the white clip), strip 1/2" of insulation off the ends of both, and twist them together with a wire nut. That green wire (if it has one) is the ON/OFF wire and will activate your power supply when you plug it in as long as it is grounded to a black wire. If you want to live dangerously, You can use a metal paper clip to bridge the circuit between the black wire and the GREEN wire in the clip without cutting it off (FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY!!! BE CAREFUL!!). You can also attach a switch between these two wires. THe guy in the video did this INSIDE the body of the power supply.

If it Still doesn't work, then you probably need to impart a "load" on the power supply to get it to turn on. All this means is it needs an LED for the CPS to sense a load (You can use one of your resistorized groupings of 3 LED's as a temporary fix). With your power supply off, Temporarily attach the long leg (+) of your LED grouping to the yellow wire, and the short leg, with the resistor soldered on, to the black wire. As I said before you can just plug your LED's in the small clip as I mentioned above.

If it STILL doesn't work with your (Tested) LED's, your CPS likely has an issue. I wouldn't throw it out untill you have someone more experianced look at it since there are some variables on some older CPS's that I'm not familiar with.

If you have any more questions, Joe (Hpropman) and MANY others are a LOT more familiar with Electronics and can likely offer more information.

In Summary, I'd look for a CPS with a lighted switch built in it for your first hack, It really simplifies the process.


----------



## Haunted Spider

Ok, Lets say I collect all my bottle caps, get the rest of the supplies and need to order the LEDs from Asia engineer. You stated that you need to specify which resistors you need and he will send them to you for free. 

If I got his basic package of 100 LED lights (in multiple colors) in the 5mm (I think) whichever ones you used, and I did the set up just like yours with 3 lights to one resistor, what resistors would I need to order and how many of each?

I want to make sure I don't screw up an order and have to try and locate resistors elsewhere.


----------



## Jaybo

It's always good to read up on this. Remember, this is 120v and it can KILL, so read up.

http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM


----------



## niblique71

*Computer Power Supply Hacking for 12V*

First off, I deny any and all responsibility for using the following information. Proceed at your own risk!!!! If you are uncomfortable applying this information, than consult a professional. You are working with electricity!!! PLEASE use common sense.

With that said, CPS's are hacked by the millions for use in various testors and powering other circuitry. They are extremly versatile, powerful and are the workhorse of the haunting community. They can run Wiper motors, experimental circuitry, and many other things.

Here are a few pictures that might help explain some of my last post on Power supply Hacking.

In this first photo, it shows some typical connectors that are attached to an OLDER Computer power supply. The connector on the left is a small one used for newer hard drives. Your finished LED arrays fit nicely into the holes for testing purposes. It's not a rock solid connection so you might have to play with it a little. Note that the resistor is plugged in the slot where the black wire is. I happen to connect my resistor on the negative side of my LEDs. You may do it differently.

The middle connector is used to attach to the motherboard directly. This model does not have a switch attached, so NOTE the paperclip with tape on it that acts like an "ON" switch by connecting the Green wire, and one black wire. This power supply would NOT turn on without the LED's plugged in. It needed that load attached before I used the paperclip as a temporary switch. Some would say that my Paperclip is Dangerous..... well it can be a little dangerous if you aren't careful... SOO BE CAREFUL!! or DON"T do it! I'm doing it for demonstration purposes only. I usually use this technique ONLY to test if a power supply is working before I spend ANY time permanantly hacking it.

The connectors on the right are additional Hard Drive plugs. I like to cut one of these larger connectors off to make my connection to your landscape wire or testor. Again, Yellow is +12V and the black is ground (-)










This is the same power supply from a distance.









This next picture is an example of another OLDER power supply that was removed from it's computer with a switch intact. The switch is the little black square on the left connected to the thick black wire. This switch was originally mounted on the front of the computer and you pressed it to turn the computer on. It was removed from the computer "as is", and now it just turns on the power supply. Again this CPS wouldn't start without the LED array attached for a startup "Load"









NEWER (ATX) power supplies either have a switch directly mounted on the back OR the wires connect to the switch THROUGH the motherboard before it get's to the front of your computer. That's why you sometimes need to attach a switch to the correct wires as shown in the first two pictures above.

In this photo is my first Hacked power supply. If you look closely you can see that the green wire and the black wire next to it have been cut. They were pulled inside the CPS box, where I drilled a hole, installed a switch, and soldered the wires to the switch instead of using a paper clip (MUCH SAFER!!!). Also Notice that adjacent to that switch is a "Built in LED" which was installed by the factory. I don't need to add any additional "Load" for this power supply to turn on since it's already built in. You can add an LED just like this one, but the resistor value will be different since there's only 1 LED instead of 3 (for our spotlights). You can also just buy a resistorized LED from radio shack rated at 12V. It has threads and a retainer nut. Just drill the hole and attach to a black and yellow wire using proper polarity (Positive still goes to positive).









Lastly, since I didn't want to add to the confusion during this Mini- tutorial, your power supply also has other voltages that can be used for other purposes. That's what (most of) the other colored wires are for. It is common for a typical modern CPS to have +3.3V, +5V, +12V as well as -12V and -5V and possibly -3.3V.


----------



## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> Ok, Lets say I collect all my bottle caps, get the rest of the supplies and need to order the LEDs from Asia engineer. You stated that you need to specify which resistors you need and he will send them to you for free.
> 
> If I got his basic package of 100 LED lights (in multiple colors) in the 5mm (I think) whichever ones you used, and I did the set up just like yours with 3 lights to one resistor, what resistors would I need to order and how many of each?
> 
> I want to make sure I don't screw up an order and have to try and locate resistors elsewhere.


I believe that that pack of multiple colors are MUCH weaker than the ones you can get Individually. For intensity you want the highest "mcd" available in each color. I don't think you'll be happy with the "Mixed Bag"

As far as proper resistor ordering, I have to contact our MnT group leader "Vlad". I've been trying to reach him for 2 months to get the proper ordering proceedure. He placed the order for our original "Group buy". However, I can tell you that if you order 50 LED's you get 50 free resistors of any value you want.

Also, when I wrote the tutorial, Asia Engineer was on vacation and I couldn't access thier website to get exact available resistor values. I'll Do that now and get back to you shortly.
I'll try again to reach Vlad this evening. BUT... now that I've made one order (incorrectly), I'm pretty sure how to do it. Each color comes up as a separate order untill your ready to check out. Once you look at the "Summary" before you Pay for it. You can Add instructions to send a specific resistor for that order (Eg. - 100 white LED's @ 18,000mcd: You will add under comments "send with 120ohm FREE resistors")

DO the same for each color and resistor value.

Thier website treats each color as a separate order untill the end of the ordering process where it bundles it together and gives you a total for review and payment.

Again I will check thier site to get EXACT "available" resistor values, then update the tutorial, Atempt to contact Vlad, and then get back to you.


----------



## niblique71

Jaybo said:


> It's always good to read up on this. Remember, this is 120v and it can KILL, so read up.
> 
> http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply
> 
> http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM


Thanks Jaybo, GREAT Information. I wish you had posted that first. It would have saved me two hours LOL.


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## niblique71

Ok, I sent an e-mail to Asia Engineer to get the proper way of ordering custom resistors. It could be 2 days before I get a reply. Meanwhile I did make another attempt to contact "Vlad". I know he's really busy with work and remodeling his home.

As far as exact resistor values, 
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Reds and Ambers 360ohms.

That value is on the low side of being acceptable according to the calculator. Mine have 360ohms in them and they've been running for 8 hours each day for the last 4 weeks with no issues. The next available resistor from Asia engineer was 470ohms which is outside of the acceptable range.

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Whites, Greens, Blues, Pinks can use 100 ohm resistor.

The calculator says 100-120 ohms. Again, mine have a 100ohm resistor which is on the low side of being acceptable, but still within range.
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I'll follow up as soon As I am sure of the ordering proceedure.

Update: 2/14/11 Here is the ordering procedure through Asia Engineer for your Custom Resisters: For individual colors, Just place your LED order like normal, Then and add a note with the order to send 360 ohm, and/or 100 ohm resistors (or whatever Ohm you need if your doing something different). I Follow up your order by sending a note to Georgio via E-bays, mail program. I'm not sure what resistors the "Mixed bags" use, so calculate them using the info for each color and use the same procedure above. I'll Update the Tutorial.

I wanted to try the Ultra High powered LED's, so I ordered a few of the 3W 95 Lumin to test. If you decide to use these for any reason, You must use a special LED Driver which Giorgio can special order for you. You can also make a driver using a voltage regulator and a 1W or 2W Low Ohm resistor. I wanted to use the recommended Driver for my first batch so I don't overdrive them. Apparently they are very dependant on PRECISE Milliamps and Voltage. Giorgio (His E-mail name) is very committed to helping you out, but be aware that his understanding of english is limited, so use simple terms, and be very concise with your phrasing. I'll report back on the High Power LED's once they arrive. I

Notice above that I replaced the 130 Ohm resistors with 100 Ohm. They said that they didn't have 130 ohm. 100 Ohm still falls in the acceptable range for the Whites, Greens, Blues, and Pinks if your doing groupings of 3 LED's in series.


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## hedg12

niblique71 said:


> First off, I deny any and all responsibility for using the following information. Proceed at your own risk!!!! If you are uncomfortable applying this information, than consult a professional. You are working with electricity!!! PLEASE use common sense.
> 
> With that said, CPS's are hacked by the millions for use in various testors and powering other circuitry. They are extremly versatile, powerful and are the workhorse of the haunting community. They can run Wiper motors, experimental circuitry, and many other things.
> 
> Here are a few pictures that might help explain some of my last post on Power supply Hacking.
> 
> In this first photo, it shows some typical connectors that are attached to an OLDER Computer power supply. The connector on the left is a small one used for newer hard drives. Your finished LED arrays fit nicely into the holes for testing purposes. It's not a rock solid connection so you might have to play with it a little. Note that the resistor is plugged in the slot where the black wire is. I happen to connect my resistor on the negative side of my LEDs. You may do it differently.
> 
> The middle connector is used to attach to the motherboard directly. This model does not have a switch attached, so NOTE the paperclip with tape on it that acts like an "ON" switch by connecting the Green wire, and one black wire. This power supply would NOT turn on without the LED's plugged in. It needed that load attached before I used the paperclip as a temporary switch. Some would say that my Paperclip is Dangerous..... well it can be a little dangerous if you aren't careful... SOO BE CAREFUL!! or DON"T do it! I'm doing it for demonstration purposes only. I usually use this technique ONLY to test if a power supply is working before I spend ANY time permanantly hacking it.
> 
> The connectors on the right are additional Hard Drive plugs. I like to cut one of these larger connectors off to make my connection to your landscape wire or testor. Again, Yellow is +12V and the black is ground (-)
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> This is the same power supply from a distance.
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> This next picture is an example of another OLDER power supply that was removed from it's computer with a switch intact. The switch is the little black square on the left connected to the thick black wire. This switch was originally mounted on the front of the computer and you pressed it to turn the computer on. It was removed from the computer "as is", and now it just turns on the power supply. Again this CPS wouldn't start without the LED array attached for a startup "Load"
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> NEWER (ATX) power supplies either have a switch directly mounted on the back OR the wires connect to the switch THROUGH the motherboard before it get's to the front of your computer. That's why you sometimes need to attach a switch to the correct wires as shown in the first two pictures above.
> 
> In this photo is my first Hacked power supply. If you look closely you can see that the green wire and the black wire next to it have been cut. They were pulled inside the CPS box, where I drilled a hole, installed a switch, and soldered the wires to the switch instead of using a paper clip (MUCH SAFER!!!). Also Notice that adjacent to that switch is a "Built in LED" which was installed by the factory. I don't need to add any additional "Load" for this power supply to turn on since it's already built in. You can add an LED just like this one, but the resistor value will be different since there's only 1 LED instead of 3 (for our spotlights). You can also just buy a resistorized LED from radio shack rated at 12V. It has threads and a retainer nut. Just drill the hole and attach to a black and yellow wire using proper polarity (Positive still goes to positive).
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> Lastly, since I didn't want to add to the confusion during this Mini- tutorial, your power supply also has other voltages that can be used for other purposes. That's what (most of) the other colored wires are for. It is common for a typical modern CPS to have +3.3V, +5V, +12V as well as -12V and -5V and possibly -3.3V.


Great info! PC power supplies are a great resource.

I'll throw this out there - the switch on the older AT power supply in the 3d image switches mains voltage - 120VAC here in the U.S. If you find one of these and decide to use it, BE CAREFUL with this switch and it's connectors. Make sure it's well insulated, even when the power supply is turned off.
AT supplies are getting harder to find so it's probably not much of an issue, but if you come across one just be aware.

The trigger wire (green wire on the main connector) is very low current & is likely not too dangerous. I regularly bench test supplies by jumpering the green and black wires with a bare paperclip with no problems. Still we're talking about electricity here, so better safe than sorry!

ATX power supplies can be had for very little money online. I probably wouldn't put a $9.99 power supply in a computer, but I've used several in a yard haunt!


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## beelce

Hey Nib.....
Could I use a regular 12v car battery to run this LED system ?


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## pagan

Could I use Beelce's car battery to run something like this?


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## hpropman

yes that would work - should be able to get a few weeks before the battery will need to be recharged and how many lights you power with it.


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## niblique71

I agree with Joe about using a car battery with one crutial exception. IF you use my connection system (Vampire clips) as seen in my LED spotlight tutorial, it is common to create a temporary short if you miss the wires while connecting them. With a car battery there is no "Fault Protection", and the wires will spark wildy or heat up VERY FAST and probably melt. Most CPS's that I've used have a circuit breaker (fault protection) and will just "click" off safely. Other than that little tidbit, you could easily use a car battery. If you want to use a car battery, I'd install a fuse, or circuit breaker, or just use a connection system similar to Joe's as seen earlier in this thread.

Conversely, a CPS can power anything that a car uses (12V), Wiper motors, Car stereos, Cooling fans, Automotive relays, Halogen headlights, Power door locks, Snow plow lifts, and window motors etc.


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## jtc

Can you reuse old landscape lighting wire? I have 200 feet of used wire that has had lights clipped to it?


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## niblique71

jtc said:


> Can you reuse old landscape lighting wire? I have 200 feet of used wire that has had lights clipped to it?


Sure, you can use that old wire if it's in fairly good condition. I would test the continuity of it from end to end first, and wiggle it around a little to be sure the entire length is good before you count on it as your halloween wire. I recommend 14-2 or thicker (12-2 or 10-2 has heavier copper wire, and is more expensive and sort of overkill). I have used 16-2 as well, but that's about the practical limit as far as how small you can go using the vampire clips.

We relocate lights for customers all the time as thier trees grow, or as thier lighting requirements change. The punctures that are created by the vampire clips do cause "Some" degredation of the copper inside, but in general, this type of wire can last a VERY long time, especially if you only use it for 1 month a year and then store it in a dry location. It's not uncommon for this type of wire to last 10-20 years, even when its in constant exposure to the elements. Often it is buried in damp mulch beds for it's entire life and does just fine.


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## niblique71

*Update: Ordering Proceedure for Custom Resistors.*

I updated THIS  post on available resistors and how to order them for your LED's From Asia Engineer. Scroll about halfway down, and look for the orange UPDATE:.

I'm also curious to see how well the "Mixed bag of different colors" performs if anyone buys them. It seems that it's the only way to get yellows from Asia Engineer. The MCD's listed for these are considerably lower than what you can buy when ordering individual colors.

I have found other inexpensive LEDs when surfing around, but very few have equal or greater MCD ratings than what's available from Asia Engineer (When comparing cost).


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## Haunted Spider

I know this was answered a while back in on of the threads going on this topic, but I can't find it. If I order the multi pack of LEDs and two other packages, one of red and one of blue, from asia engineer, are they shipped together or bundled together like one order or do I need to fill out separate emails for each?


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> I know this was answered a while back in on of the threads going on this topic, but I can't find it. If I order the multi pack of LEDs and two other packages, one of red and one of blue, from asia engineer, are they shipped together or bundled together like one order or do I need to fill out separate emails for each?


Place an order for 1 item, but don't check out. Go back to the main pages and order your second Item.. You'll see both items in your check out basket. Repeat as necessary till your done shopping. If you want to cancel an item, just click the check box on the list and remove it. You'll get E-mails wanting you to pay for the removed Item, BUT You can go to "My E-bay" and Click "REMOVE" on your "To Do" List, and that Item will be permanantly removed from your "Please pay for this Item" List.

As for the "Mixed bag, I'm not sure if you can order special resistors. BUT, If you place an order that requires 100 ohm AND 360 ohm resistors, I believe they are still the 2 values you would need for the Mixed bag when you are using 3 LED's. Remember, if you order 100 LED's, you get 100 resistors of your choice. You only need 1/3rd of the resistors to build these spotlights. You will have extras leftover for your Mixed bag. I haven't checked the requirements for the yellows, but I believe they will be either 100 ohm or 360 ohm ( the same as you will be special ordering with your two other colors). So in summary, If you want to additional colors, One of those colors should be Red, or amber, so you can get the 360 ohm resistors. ALl of the other colors use the 100 Ohm resistors.

Did that make Sense??


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## Haunted Spider

Yeah, I think so. I am still trying to determine what the different values are in the multi vs regular packs. I see there is a big difference in the mcd value from 4000 to 13000 but what is that value for, brightness? Geeze I feel incompetant here.


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## niblique71

Spiderclimber said:


> Yeah, I think so. I am still trying to determine what the different values are in the multi vs regular packs. I see there is a big difference in the mcd value from 4000 to 13000 but what is that value for, brightness? Geeze I feel incompetant here.


Mcd's, Lumens, and candle's are all measurement of light intensity.

As for the correct resistor's for the "multi" pack, Just use the LED calculator listed earlier in this thread. Plug in your supply voltage (12V in your case), Your Foward Voltage of each color (it usually has a range High and Low, check both), and your Milliamp (ma) requirement of each color. Then add the number of LED's in series (3 in your case). This will calculate your resistor value(s) in Exact numbers. Unfortunatly there are Only certain resistor values available, so the common rule is to get the Closest available resistor value (usually the next availalbe Higher value). In our case the whites "should" have a 120 ohm resistor, but thier nearest availalble resistor is 150 Ohm. Since the 100 ohm is still (barely) within the acceptable range I opted to use that one. As I said, I wouldn't recommend them if I didn't try them first with success and MANY hours of testing.

Feel free to ask any more questions.

Good luck with the LED calculations, and let me know what you discover.


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## crazybob

This information is priceless! I'm totally going to start making a bunch of these. Thanks for the tutorial.
I'm assuming I know the answer, but I haven't seen it directly asked yet- is the 12v low enough voltage not to shock you if touched?


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## niblique71

crazybob said:


> This information is priceless! I'm totally going to start making a bunch of these. Thanks for the tutorial.
> I'm assuming I know the answer, but I haven't seen it directly asked yet- is the 12v low enough voltage not to shock you if touched?


 THank you, I appreciate the endorsement. As for your question, the quick answer is yes you can get a shock from 12 volts. THe long answer is that it's still safer than 120V power chords running all over the place. Someone said earlier in this thread that you could kill someone with a 9V battery if you knew just how to do it. 
You have to use common sense with ANYTHING that uses electricity. All and all I think it's fairly safe.


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## crazybob

I know a lot has to do with amperage- do you know how many amps are considered dangerous at 12v? I know the "spark cage" trick using a 12v battery charger is safe to touch since it is such a low amperage. I'm plenty comfortable with my electrical knowledge to tackle these LED lights, but I'd like to know my volunteers can safely help set up these lights too.


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## hpropman

If you really worried about it have them connect the lights and before you connect the battery do a quick test with a multimeter to see if there are any shorts. Or use a computer power supply while you connect the lights (it will power down if a short happens) and then switch to the battery or leave the CPS.


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## niblique71

In addition to what Joe said, The only part of the wire that could possibly be exposed to skin contact would be the very ends of the landscape wire. If you use Wire nuts at your power supply and "Cleanly" Cut and tape the other end, you should have absolutely NO issues. As for the Vampire connectors, It's almost impossible to get your fingers in an area to touch them as your connecting them. Also, I always used a small piece of plywood to press the vampire clips into the landscape wire. I ALWAYS use a Computer power supply because it's safer with it's "Fault protection" built into it. I also always connect my lights while the computer power supply is is ON. That way you can insure that you haven't accidently created a short while your connectig them. You also get really good feedback as you plug each light in. Remember, you don't want to puncture the wire all the way through to the other side. Just press them in enough to get the light to turn on, secure them, and then just give the connection one more "press" to insure good contact. Also make sure that you protect the copper nail heads with hot glue or some other medium. It will prevent corrosion, and even further reduce the chance of an accidental shock. I would avoid using a battery unless you can install a fuse or some other kind of "fault Protection".


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly

I'm not sure if someone's mentioned this or it's been addressed (thread has 11 pages at this point, TL : DR) but I'm noticing some light leakage from the photo's on page 1 through the PVC. My solution to this would be to make a small cylinder of Aluminum foil and slide it down the barrel so that it acts as a light-proof barrier for the PVC. Also would help reflect up some of the stray photons...

_edit: this is not to say I won't be reading this thing fully when I have more time, this idea rocks!_


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## niblique71

MacabreRob said:


> I'm not sure if someone's mentioned this or it's been addressed (thread has 11 pages at this point, TL : DR) but I'm noticing some light leakage from the photo's on page 1 through the PVC. My solution to this would be to make a small cylinder of Aluminum foil and slide it down the barrel so that it acts as a light-proof barrier for the PVC. Also would help reflect up some of the stray photons...
> 
> _edit: this is not to say I won't be reading this thing fully when I have more time, this idea rocks!_


To address your comment, they weren't painted black yet in those first few pictures of this thread. Once they're painted, there's really no noticable "bleed" through the PVC. Aluminum probably won't do much for focusing these lights since they already have a 25 degree viewing angle.

Yea, this thread is pretty long, but it has a lot of great information in it if you can hang in there.

The culmination of this topic is the LED TUTORIAL that I did to make these lights. I've made a LOT of improvements since this thread got started. I'm also open to any upgrades or improvements that anyone else offers.

Joe (Hpropman) and Scarecrow came up with some cool connection methods as an alternative to mine.


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