# Where do you draw the line?



## blacklightmike (Nov 2, 2008)

This is sort of a companion piece to the Fun V Scary thread... I had some thoughts that I felt deserved their own thread, as they delve a bit deeper into the psyche of what makes us scared versus perceived bad taste. 

For me, I've found the notion of an actor laying in a modern casket dredges up bad memories for those who may have suffered the recent loss of a loved one, and can be considered in poor taste, regardless of intent... but, a toe-pincher is so far removed from the present day that it is never questioned. I also try and avoid hangings for similar reasons... they evoke thoughts of either a suicide or a lynching, two touchy subjects too currently controversial to be conducive to entertainment.

For a friend of mine, it was his depiction of a full-out car accident that caused some issues, and it was removed. It would seem that the further back in history you draw inspiration from, the less it tends to offend folks in general.

Your thoughts? What have your experiences told you about how far is too far to go for a scare? Have customers complained about something in particular that caused you to rethink a certain scare? What do you feel is your personal comfort zone regarding your haunt?


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## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

I haven't hit a line yet, but I don't go for gory. I'm more into the creepy/spooky environment.


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## joker (Sep 25, 2007)

I draw the line at the door, and let them decide to enter or not...muwhahaha. 

Seriously though I pretty much stay away from the gory stuff. I did have a 35 gallon barrel of bones and body parts for my popup this year, but that was about it. It was blanketed with a red light so it really didn't look as bad as it could have. I would like to have an actual casket for a pneumatic prop, I can't see it bringing up bad memories any more than my cemetery out front.


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## gypsichic (Jun 6, 2006)

there's a line?



seriously.............we're not into too much gore...........and i haven't done the hanging dummy for the reason you listed. 

dead children/haunted nursery is another scene that i have chosen not to do


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## Spooky1 (Aug 25, 2008)

I crossed the dead child line. I have a 3ft skelly in a Batman costume (Tot from years past?) in my spider web. He was heavily wrapped in webs this year so it was harder to see the costume. It hasn't seemed to bother anyone yet.


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## Severin (Aug 5, 2007)

Everyone is going to have issues. From caskets to car crashes to clowns. In my opinion trying to worry about what psychological trigger someone will have is impossible & pointless.

Part of the entertainment of Halloween is scaring someone. If one is easily disturbed, they should take steps to avoid what disturbs them.

I crossed the dead baby line too. No complaints other than a few mothers holding their toddlers a little closer. 

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb269/_Severin_/user1035_pic1461_1221762662.jpg


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## remylass (Sep 18, 2008)

I toe this line every year. Last year, my cousin hung himself. I was actually trying to figure out the hangman/dancing Santa hack at the time. I won't be doing that one. We thought of doing a funeral scene once, but I have been to too many real ones. I tend to go more towards the fantastic. Zombies, werewolves, vampires, corpses, etc. Most of this should just evoke a Halloween vibe.


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## MotelSixx (Sep 27, 2008)

I push the envelope constantly ---- However, I do find that older style things are creepier and have a better fear factor. 
As far as offending people hahaha, it don't take my setup to offend, perhaps it was the beat down of 7 seven teenage girls that jumped me halloween night '05.


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## blacklightmike (Nov 2, 2008)

Severin said:


> ...In my opinion trying to worry about what psychological trigger someone will have is impossible & pointless.


Severin, _I personally_ would love to keep doing this for as long as I can, and I've found it's a good idea to keep the opinions of customers, friends, family and return business in mind when rethinking strategies. The good rumors they spread about you will keep you afloat in legendary comments for years to come, but the bad ones get exaggerated and that's when it's better to play safe than sorry. I've heard some whoppers this year that turned out to be unfounded rumors started by disgruntled patrons of other haunts, but it hurt them nonetheless.

The coffin issue came up recently... I was approached by someone who had a powder blue casket he wanted to give me. My first thought was, _where would I store it?_ Then, I realized it wouldn't fit in with my theme, and the idea kinda tanked.

Third, and most important was, my wife's father was_ buried in one just like it_, on the 9th of November... need I subject my spouse to years of reminders of this? I thought not. It was then that it dawned on me that reminders of possibly disturbing, contemporary images might be apt to rattle other peoples' cages the wrong way... people see these style of caskets all too often in their lives, and don't generally associate them with Halloween entertainment, but with grieving and loss.

Same with nooses and car accidents... painful, modern reminders that spur a sickened, familiar response to a disturbing moment in the lives of most people who've endure their hardships... not a good healthy scare at all anymore, it would be more like a cheap, thoughtless prank.

I then analyzed the notions of other devices... chopping blocks and guillotines, wooden electric chairs, torture devices, chainsaws... and decided they *would work* if that were the theme I was going for, as I was probably not likely to run into easily aroused ancestors of Marie Antoinette, late 19th century serial killers on death row, medieval victims of the Spanish Inquisition or Leatherface. Time, as it applies here so very well, heals all wounds... toe pinchers and fictional legends were in, cheap thrills based on modern tragedy were out.

Here's a thought. A haunt display wouldn't feature a pair of paramedics trying to revive a dying man on the ground, or a pair of crips killing a woman in an alley... but a Victorian doctor leaning over a monster on a slab... maybe two masked monsters acting out a scene from a movie? More acceptable because they represent period/popular fiction, not reality. There is no escapism in the former, just painful reminders of the present day. Modern living is horror enough, every other day than Halloween. A good communal scare comes from deeper places.

Another example of treading carefully only just happened last Monday... I was returning to work with hundreds of pics of my graveyard, ready to entertain my coworkers with the goings-on of my haunt, until one of them caught me beforehand to say that his brother had been found dead on the night after Halloween by trick or treaters (they do it all weekend in his neck of PA), behind a building, a victim of foul play. Of course, I preempted my bragging indefinitely, and now have to keep in consideration that he will always associate the anniversary of his brothers' death with Halloween, which makes things more difficult between us.

I suppose what I'm saying is that such considerations _*should*_ be made when planning a haunt. Same as I position my lights with deference to my neighbors' windows, I tend to consider not displaying a drowning baby for the sake of the neighbor who lost a brother in that way, etc., and I do not find myself at a loss to cover the hole this self-editing creates... there are plenty of good, gruesome things in my imagination that I can resort to instead. IMHO, of course.


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## MotelSixx (Sep 27, 2008)

M6 quote 1 - "there is no such thing as bad publicity"

M6 quote 2 - "time wounds all heals"


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## slightlymad (May 25, 2006)

I believe in being considerate but not overly so. Over the years we have made minor changes but none major.


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

I'm all about death imagery and such but there are contexts... I see nothing Halloweenish or scary about a fatal car crash. There was a wrecked jeep with corpsed skeletons in it at the pro haunt I helped with last year, but that was part of a combat scene in a military base being overrun with zombies and mutants. Like BLM mentioned earlier the example of 2 street thugs killing someone in an alley... I don't see why anyone would find that entertaining. Filling a haunt with nothing but images of fatal accidents, child abuse, street or domestic violence etc. is likely to **** off a lot more people than it will entertain. Some people seem like they're just intent on bringing up negative feelings more than providing a thrill or scare. Say what you will about the quality of the "scare" they provide, I guarantee you it will get people formulating opinions of the person who built the haunt. And they won't be favorable.


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## jdubbya (Nov 6, 2005)

Good responses. I tend to agree with revenant. Your haunt style is a reflection of your tastes, and this first impression will stick with people if they've never been to your haunt before. If you have an "I don't care what anyone thinks" outlook, then you'll be sure to offend someone, even though some may like it. Personally, I want people to be amused, and I want them to come back year to year because they liked the display. I stay away from hangings/nooses, violent scenes (there's enough of this in real life), too much gore (not really scary IMO). I agree to an extent with a funeral scene and think this could hit a nerve with some, particularly kids who may have lost a loved one. I have a toe pincher and have had a costumed actor jump out of it but it's more of a scare than a recreation of an actual funeral. I think you get more of a reaction with atmosphere; lighting, fog, sound. I also believe that your target audience is children. Play to them and you've got a winner. They and their parents will be back year to year. Set up a bloody,violent, gory haunt and I think many will simply bypass your place. JMO.


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## undertaker313 (Oct 24, 2008)

well personally lol 
we try as hard as possible to make it as intense and scary as possible. especially now that were going proffesional this year. 
i mean i would much rather have people running out screaming and then get into there cars and realize that it was well worth the money and it was insane than have a group come walking out laughing then get into there cars and realize dang that was kinda a waste of money. 
I mean really people go to haunted houses to be scared and i feel we should try our hardest. 
There is no haunted house that is too scary. think about that. 
even trying your hardest you cant really make anything that is too scary =):zombie:


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## chisox100 (Nov 12, 2008)

I had a gallows this year but next year its going to be changed into something else, not sure yet.


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

undertaker313 said:


> well personally lol
> we try as hard as possible to make it as intense and scary as possible. especially now that were going proffesional this year.
> i mean i would much rather have people running out screaming and then get into there cars and realize that it was well worth the money and it was insane than have a group come walking out laughing then get into there cars and realize dang that was kinda a waste of money.
> I mean really people go to haunted houses to be scared and i feel we should try our hardest.
> ...


I think you've missed the whole point of the thread, UT. This isn't about whether or not it's scary (that's a different thread) but whether or not the content is actually scary vs. just trying to be "extreme" in whatever way possible, and going too far. I've been to "intense, in your face" haunts before that weren't scary, more like annoying and tasteless. Gore doesn't scare me in the slightest, for example. And trying to make things more "extreme" by making the gore of, say, babies or young girls at the hands of street predators or whatever, also doesn't make it scary, just more offensive. and the fee-paying reference doesn't apply to more than maybe 5 people on this whole forum, pretty much everyone here does home haunts, which means kids are going to be going through them.

A really well-made animatronic spider can get more genuine screams and scares than an army of Jasons running lawnmowers over a pile of aborted fetuses, but a lot of people will go for the latter because they think that more "extreme" = better or scarier. Once again, back to a previous example -- a car wreck scene -- isn't going to make me scream or run or get an adrenaline blast, it's just going to remind me of how I lost my father. Not much entertainment value there. And who says necessarily that the people who come out laughing are thinking they were cheated? Are they laughing because it was cheesy and ridiculous or because it was intentionally genuinely funny? If they were entertained then it was worthwhile to them.

Disney's Haunted Mansion isn't even scary, let alone intense, but it blows people away and they flock to it and return again and again. Think about that.


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## Monstermaker (Aug 4, 2008)

Where our haunt is concerned, we're known as the "extremist's in fear". That being said we employ gore and ghastly visuals that push people's "buttons" so to speak. We go more the way of surrealistic vice commonplace.(I.E. we don't do suicides, car-wrecks, guns, etc. There's already been too many haunts that have done those to death...pun intended) We base our ideas from movies/video games/etc. (Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Wrong Turn and the like...) We also leave things to people's imaginations, as often what they "think" may come next is far scarier than what we could physically replicate. We play on people's fears...twist them/re-shape them/re-fine them. Why...? Because they are abundant sources of inspiration as well as entertaining (for us anyway....)


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## Night Owl (Feb 28, 2008)

Maybe we can leave the cringe-worthy, offensive scares to the wacky fundamentalists and their "Hell House". Now _that's_ a truly disturbing haunt. Anybody know what I'm referencing, here?


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

Night Owl said:


> Maybe we can leave the cringe-worthy, offensive scares to the wacky fundamentalists and their "Hell House". Now _that's_ a truly disturbing haunt. Anybody know what I'm referencing, here?


I was just thinking the same thing as I was reading this thread

We don't do gore in general, but I believe folks have hit on what makes it work when it is used - historical/fictional/traditional versus modern day. A bloody zombie and a bloody street crime victim are both scary, but I wouldn't go to a haunt (or Hell House) that features the latter.


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## bignick (Sep 25, 2008)

I play the gore card. Not to the extreme....yet, but i do play the gore card. Halloween is suppose to be about things that scare you or give you an uneasy feeling. I pushed the envelope this year with my display (check my pictures if you haven't seen them) and i did not get one complaint. I got lots of compliments and encouragement to keep it going next year. If i did get a complaint though i would lighten it up or change it up.


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## gypsichic (Jun 6, 2006)

As a scanned this thread to see what others had to say.........i thought about the 'leaving things to the imagnation' comment...........silent darkness with an occasional twig snapping just to my right is a helluva lot scarier to me than blood & gore - my mind can be my own worst enemy - even in the daylight!...........lol

i think whoever said it about being in context is very correct.


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## blacklightmike (Nov 2, 2008)

> ...an army of Jasons running lawnmowers over a pile of aborted fetuses...


Oh my god, that line cracks me up, Rev! What a visual...

...and, I'm liking the Hell-House comments. Good point.

Whether we own up to it or not, we are _all_ providing Halloween entertainment, even if it's just a display we put up. When it's out for the public to see, whether for free or fee, it becomes enetrtainment by virtue of it's presence in front of us. The point of this thread is, at what point is it no longer entertaining and just plain gratuitous, hurtful or tasteless.

Ah, _*chainsaws*_... here's where I'm gonna get unpopular quick... The idea of popping out and chasing someone with something loud and angry-sounding in your hand is- _*TO ME*_ -kind of a too-easy means to an end... *it certainly works*, but so much is lost in that first moment that it might as well be a backlit granny with a two-stroke eggbeater or weed-whacker chasing you, (an _*actual thought*_ I had for a new scare... a double-whammy, 'yikes! / ha-ha' kind of thing that parodies the whole 'leatherface' effect).

Deeper... I've seen this effect work in a lot of places where it's used as a solitary gag, or to guide folks quickly 'to the eggress', but I've also seen too many haunts where it is used over and over in various incarnations as to become totally overbearing and desensitizing.

To go even deeper... there is- _*TO ME*_ -an inelegance to simply jumping out and screaming/revving a motor/clanging a can _over and over_... it becomes self-indulgent over time... like a long series of practical jokes on the same person in succession, it loses it's effectiveness after the first application. A good haunt is a lot like a well-performed magic show... it tells a series of quick, interactive, compelling stories with a breathtaking resolution. A bad haunt is one that offends the senses quickly and leaves you holding the hat full of cracked eggs, with the magician/haunt actor taking the bow and you feeling 'had'... or, like Jerry Seinfeld said, "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over."

Some people like this approach, though, and that's cool. *Whatever works for you is cool.* I'm an old fart, and I tend to over-think things anyway. That should be cool with you as well. Maybe the trend is leaning toward screaming hulks with two-stroke engines blaring, and away from carefully-crafted scares, and I'm heading to the tar-pits with the triceratops' and compys. I do like the comments this thread is bringing out, though.


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

blacklightmike said:


> The idea of popping out and chasing someone with something loud and angry-sounding in your hand is- _*TO ME*_ -kind of a too-easy means to an end... *it certainly works*, but so much is lost in that first moment that it might as well be a backlit granny with a two-stroke eggbeater or weed-whacker chasing you.


Is "eggbeater" code for some instrument of malice, because I'm laughing at the mental picture of some old lady chasing folks around with the kind of egg beater my grandma used to use in the kitchen


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## blacklightmike (Nov 2, 2008)

RoxyBlue said:


> Is "eggbeater" code for some instrument of malice, because I'm laughing at the mental picture of some old lady chasing folks around with the kind of egg beater my grandma used to use in the kitchen


LOL! No, just a plain old, ratchety egg beater... with a two-stroke engine attached! A vacuum cleaner, a model plane, leaf blower... anything noisy and handheld, held in a menacing manner.

Eggbeater... ha... 'Run, ya little brats! RUN! Or, you'll get YER FINGER STUCK in it! That'll teach ya to send me a thank you for yer birthday presents!'


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## ScreamingScarecrow (Oct 1, 2008)

Great thread - I've always said creep factor over matter splatter but in the end the haunter will have to draw their own lines for their own reasons and then be subsequently judge by them.


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