# papier mache FAIL!



## JustJimAZ (Aug 19, 2010)

I took my bag of hand dandy wood pulp insultation, and using no water, made a 3:1 mix of elmer's glue and joint compound for paste. As I added the insulation, it became a sticky mess, which I could not see sculpting. I added a bit more, and it transformed into an chunk of stuff that was not sticky, not really moldable, and did not work at all.

Thinking I had added too much pulp, I added a little more glue and joint compound. No good. I added some water, already expecting that to go nowhere. That's just what it did, too.

Well, back to the drawing board / internet searches!

At least Jimmy's Phantom mask worked out for him.


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly (May 7, 2009)

Add flour as a binder as well. White glue dilutes in water. Also when the PM mud you made initially is a bit too sticky, you can just let it dry out just a bit. It can become a little more friendly with age.

When dealing with the sticky, make sure you keep your hands wet to avoid becoming one with your art.

Remember there is no fail, only experiements that did not go exactly as planned.


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## JustJimAZ (Aug 19, 2010)

MacabreRob said:


> Add flour as a binder as well. White glue dilutes in water. Also when the PM mud you made initially is a bit too sticky, you can just let it dry out just a bit. It can become a little more friendly with age.
> 
> When dealing with the sticky, make sure you keep your hands wet to avoid becoming one with your art.
> 
> Remember there is no fail, only experiements that did not go exactly as planned.


Thanks Rob! If I keep the glue to mud ratio 3:1, how much flour would you suggest?


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## bmaskmaker (May 6, 2010)

I use the torn newspaper cellulose insulation for mine -- it has borax in it. 

When you mix Borax and White Glue it makes GAK (rubbery - not liquid, not solid, and not sticky) ... So the trick is to balance out how much borax you add with the dry pulp, with the glue and joint compound. I use a variation on Stolloween's paste recipe. I use his recommended proportions, but use methylcellulose instead of flour. The paste consistency should be like pancake batter before mixing in the pulp.

There is a stage when I mix the clay that it gets rubbery ... but I've noticed that I can blend my way through this stage using a drill with a paint mixer attachment ... which is what I use to make my clay batches. 

Are you mixing by hand?


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## JustJimAZ (Aug 19, 2010)

bmaskmaker said:


> I use the torn newspaper cellulose insulation for mine -- it has borax in it.
> 
> When you mix Borax and White Glue it makes GAK (rubbery - not liquid, not solid, and not sticky) ... So the trick is to balance out how much borax you add with the dry pulp, with the glue and joint compound. I use a variation on Stolloween's paste recipe. I use his recommended proportions, but use methyl cellulose instead of flour. The paste consistency should be like pancake batter before mixing in the pulp.
> 
> ...


I am mixing by hand in small batches. I have mixed borax and glue before, while making "silly putty". I don't understand how that is a good sculpting material. Weird. I'm not sure I will be going the methyl cellulose route. I'm pretty cheap, and it sounds like you may be a pro. Google tells me that stuff is much more expensive than flour.
I'm going to re-read Stolloween's page. Thanks!


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## Sawtooth Jack (Apr 9, 2011)

This is a good link for a paper mache clay a few folks around here have tried.

http://ultimatepapermache.com/paper-mache-clay

*EDIT:* I see the blog is not set up to link directly to the page, but you'll find the link in the main navigation at the top.


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly (May 7, 2009)

I generally follow Stolloween's mix, with 6c of flour, 1c of glue and 1c of liquid starch. I then start adding the paper pulp until I get close to the consistency I want, then mix in the drywall mud. I have nothing precise about the measures of those last two.


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## JustJimAZ (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't understand how starch and glue combine to make anything useful. I have made slime from it, but it's certainly not sticky. Stolloween certainly knows what he's doing though, and it sounds like you do to, Rob!


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## GrimleeFeindish (Jan 23, 2009)

Hey Jim, I have had success with paper mache pulp clay. I do it by feel, its just the way I am. I combine the pulp and glue and a little water, mix it up really good. It will be sticky and like pancake batter. Thats the consistency, then I add flour until it loses the stickiness and becomes more like clay. It is pretty moldable at that point.

Im going to post a how to for my new technique using dino dough, which is like play dough. I just re-did two of my zombies and I think they came out pretty good, I can get plenty of detail with this new dino dough. BTW, the dino dough is just home made play dough. Ill link to it as soon as I get it up. Good luck, try this out. THe thing I dont like too much about the insulation pulp is that its pretty chunky and you do not get good smooth surfaces, but thats ok, its going to be seen from far away and usually a few bumps arent an issue because your trying to make it look like it has warts or whatever. This new technique Im doing seems better though. Im just really busy right now, started a new job and its hectic. Cheers.


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## morbidmike (Sep 11, 2009)

I use straight up water ,durabond (powder form ),and celulose insulation it dries really fast so I use a wet brush to smooth it out and my clay tools have a water spray bottle handy it dries rock hard then I use regular drywall compound to fill in any porous spots....I have had good luck with my method but it took some getting used to ..to know your time restraints good luck !!!!


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly (May 7, 2009)

Starch is made up of long chained molecules that are "sticky", _i.e._ they have adhesion to other substances. It's why it's used in ironing to get crisp edges. It is similar to glue in this respect, although different methods are employed. Flour contains gluton, which is a type of glue (from Latin _gluten_ "glue"). Gluton is what makes breads and pastries stay together in a mass.

Combining white glue, starch and flour gives you three types of "glues" which adhere to the cellulose fibers in our paper mache, keeping the whole thing from collapsing into a pile of pulp.

Clay (proper clay, not paper clay) is an amalgam of tiny hydrous aluminium phyllosilicate particles. With water present, these minerals exhibit plastic qualities, allowing the wet clay to be shaped. As the water leaves the amalgam, the structure form larger crystal structure which holds the shape.

When mixed with our glues (_q.v._) for binding and celluse for structure, the harden mass exhibit almost concrete like qualities. Higher proportion of clay to paper mache materials can increase the brittleness of the structure (due to the glues being displaced by the clay minerals), but finer surface detail can be achieved. So that's a trade off.

Hope that helps.


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## STOLLOWEEN (Apr 13, 2008)

Great explanation...


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

"hydrous aluminium phyllosilicate "....I love it when men talk dirty.


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

debbie5 said:


> "hydrous aluminium phyllosilicate "....I love it when men talk dirty.


As a happily married man I shouldn't flirt but...

'deoxyribonucleic acid polymerase!'

:winkvil:

Hey Rob, glad to see you spelled 'aluminium' correctly instead of the yank way!


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## robkjedi (Aug 26, 2008)

For thin, light and sturdy face masks, I suggest using plaster bandage - like casts are made from. It will not adhere to skin but you may want to apply a little petroleum jelly to your brows. Two or three layers should be enough. Once it's set, brush a little more plaster on the outsice to fill in the gaps and then it can be sanded smooth, drilled, carved, added to. the bandage is available at most craft stores. At Michaels it's called Rigid Wrap.

http://www.michaels.com/Rigid-Wrap®-Dimension-Design-Techniques/ae0123,default,pg.html


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly (May 7, 2009)

You can thank some wikipedia page for that, as I copied and pasted that phrase because I was to lazy to copy it. Of course, I do know how to spell Aluminum (ah LOO mihn uhm) and not Aluminium (AHL yoo mih nee uhm)...


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## JustJimAZ (Aug 19, 2010)

A more careful reading of Stolloween's recipe, plus the input that the joint compound is the DRY stuff not the pre mixed stuff, resulted in success at last!


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