# relays for lights



## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

Okay, I give up. I've been researching this for days. Electronics are so confusing to me for some reason.
Found this:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MK-44/305/10_CHANNEL_LIGHT_EFFECT_GENERATOR_.html
I think I can assemble it, but can't find any info on how to wire the relays neccesary to switch on 120v lights. I understand they are basicly a switch but what do I mount them on and in what way do I wire them?
Another alternative is to wire up 12v LED spots and not even use 120v spot lights, but I don't think these will be bright enough to light up the front of my house. Maybe a combo of LEDs for individual props and realys for spots on house.
Any diagrams or explanations? Thanks in advance.


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

I dont think you can use that board to power 120volt things it has 12volt outputs.


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## gmacted (Jan 18, 2006)

darryl said:


> Okay, I give up. I've been researching this for days. Electronics are so confusing to me for some reason.
> Found this:
> http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MK-44/305/10_CHANNEL_LIGHT_EFFECT_GENERATOR_.html
> I think I can assemble it, but can't find any info on how to wire the relays neccesary to switch on 120v lights. I understand they are basicly a switch but what do I mount them on and in what way do I wire them?
> ...


Darryl,

What are you trying to do? I understand you want to turn on 120VAC Spotlights. What are you trying to control them with? You usually use a relay if you want to turn on an AC source with a DC control. Example: turn on 120 VAC lights with a 12 VDC control. If this is what you are trying to do, you would want to use an "Ice Cube Relay" with a "Panel Mount Relay Socket".
There are a few important things to know about relays in general. The coil type, the contact type, and the contact rating.

The coil is what "energizes" or "turns on" the circuit. A 12 VDC coil will require a 12VDC source conntected to the coil to "turn on" the relay. A 120 VAC coil will require 120 VAC connected to the coil to "turn on" the relay.

The contact type, is what type on circuit you want to have. There are many types. SPST (Single Pole Single Throw), SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw), DPST (Double Pole Single Throw), DPDT (Double Throw Double Pole), etc. A "Single Throw" N.O. (Normally Open) circuit is probably the most common. The circuit is N.O. (Normally Open) and when the relay is "turned on" (coil voltage applied), the circuit (relay contacts) closes and turns on. There is such a thing as a "Single Throw" N.C. (Normally Closed) relay. The circuit is "Normally Closed" or "On' when the relay is "Off" (No voltage applied to the coil of the relay) and when the relay is turned on (voltage applied to the relay coil) the circuit (relay contacts) turns off. A "Double Pole" relay has both a N.O. (Normally Open) contact and a N.C. (Normally Closed) contact. Double Pole relays are much more flexible, but usually a little more expensive.

The last important thing to know about a relay is the Contact Rating. This tells you what type of "load" you can connect to the contacts. A 120 VAC 5 Amp contact rating means you can connect at most a 120 VAC voltage circuit with a 5 Amp draw (600 Watts). A 12 VDC 10 Amp contact rating means you can connect at most a 12 VDC cirucit with a 10 Amp draw (120 Watts). These are usually used in automotive applications.

The relay link I gave you above, is a Four Pole Double Throw Relay with a 12 VDC coil. With this relay, you can contol up to four spot light circuits with a 12 VDC coil voltage. The contact rating is 5 Amps at 240 VAC/28 VAC meaning you can connect a 1200 Watt AC load (at 240 VAC) or a 140 Watt DC load (at 28 VDC). You can connect a 120 VAC load to this relay. The 240 VAC rating means you can connect at most 240 VAC. The current rating will not change however. You can only connect a 600 Watt load at 120 VAC.

The panel mount relay socket will allow you to connect the socket to a panel (or a piece of wood) and then use screw terminals to connect to the relay.

I know this may be a little confusing, but I hope this helps.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

I don't think that will work either. I don't think the relays could take the current. May I suggest LOR or Animated Lighting.


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## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

Sorry, I tried to answer this earlier but the site said I wasn't logged on and when I logged on it erased my post and didn't have time to rewrite then. Thanks gmacted for all the help. It made it much clearer when it was all on one page. I mean really man, I really appreciate it.
What I'm want to do is get like a Light-O-rama type deal to controll the lighting in my cemetary yard display. Like this:
http://store.lightorama.com/ctdecotrbo.html
I thought this kit:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MK-44/305/10_CHANNEL_LIGHT_EFFECT_GENERATOR_.html
Would allow me to controll up to 12 different outputs. To turn on the 120v lights I would need a relay to do this. I'm assuming that the board will still controll the lights and make them shimmer and such through the relay but not sure. I mean if the option selected for output 1 is to twinkle the lights will it still be able to do this through the relay since the power coming out to the output is designed to work just 12v ? Or will I lose the ability to control the lights since I've taken the 12v designed to power the lights and basically just turned it into a power source for the relay.
I don't know, maybe I should just buy the LOR board. By the time I buy all the relays and mounts for them and take the time to figure this out I could probably have the LOR up and running without the quess work.


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## gmacted (Jan 18, 2006)

DeathTouch said:


> I don't think that will work either. I don't think the relays could take the current. May I suggest LOR or Animated Lighting.


Each contact will be able to pass 5 Amps at 120 VAC or 600 Watts. I don't know of any Spotlight that is greater than 600 Watts.


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## gmacted (Jan 18, 2006)

darryl said:


> Sorry, I tried to answer this earlier but the site said I wasn't logged on and when I logged on it erased my post and didn't have time to rewrite then. Thanks gmacted for all the help. It made it much clearer when it was all on one page. I mean really man, I really appreciate it.
> What I'm want to do is get like a Light-O-rama type deal to controll the lighting in my cemetary yard display. Like this:
> http://store.lightorama.com/ctdecotrbo.html
> I thought this kit:
> ...


 Now I think I understand. I think this board will do what you want it to, but you'll need "Solid State" relays and not "mechanical" relays. Here's the difference. "Solid State" relays use electronics to turn on and off, "mechanical" relays use mechanical/physical means to turn on and off. There's a rating on "mechanical" relays called the "duty cycle" which is the number of times the relay can be switched on and off before it will "wear out". "Solid State" relays do not "physically" wear out because they use electronics to turn on and off which means they last a lot longer.

The Light-O-Rama uses a "triac" to create the shimmer effect. "Triacs" are used in dimmer switches and are "solid state" devices.

The All-Electronics board will not be able to give you that effect. It probably just sequences the lights on and off.

If your looking for "solid state" relays for this board, you could use this Relay Board from EFX TEK and these Solid State Relays. They're not cheap however.

You may also want to consider using an EFX TEK Prop-1 controller to get the effect you want. You can program it to do whatever you want. John Williams from EFX TEK is very helpful and would be more than willing to help you with the programming of the controller. Right now Krough is doing a Prop-1 Group Buy on these controllers. You may want to check it out.

Feel free to PM me if you need any further help or explaination.

I hope this helps.


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## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

Gmacted. Thanks again for all the help. Sorry it took so long, once again my post was erased and I didn't have time to redo it, and now I just want to keep it short.
I'm in the group buy on the prop-1 but not for any reason other than it's a great price and I've always wanted to try it out. Maybe the light idea will be a good start.
I'm going to skip the board, my knowledge is to limited right now and Halloween is right around the corner. I just might get one of the LOR kits to do my lighting control, maybe I won't do anything fancy this year at all. I already have lots to finish.
But thanks again, it really helped me grasp a better understanding of relays and how they work.


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