# Home Haunter gets spanked by a PRO....my story



## undead41 (Nov 14, 2006)

A good friend of mine went to work as a marketing manager for a guy who owns tons of real estate and has acquired 5 diff't amusement attractions here in upstate NY. He knows nothing of the technical aspects of them but hires people to do the things to get the attraction going....(one is Halloween related, the others being Christmas, a local small but very cool amusement park including a Dark Ride still using "pretzel " ride cars....a speedboat ride etc. In this third year of doing his haunt on the grounds of another one of his amusements....the Renessaince Fair (sp?) he had produced an outdoor haunt with 4 sections...hay ride, maze, stage act, and a regular walk thru....each one costing 8 to $10....whole package ....$35. 

I got a call from my marketing friend telling me i should approach this guy and offer to help as he was apparently short on props for about a 75 yrd stretch of the entrance and she knew of my extensive high-end props and simple pneumatics. Sounded like a win/win....she being a new hire provides support to her new boss with one call to me and I travel 80 miles to the haunt to take a tour and see if I can help the Haunt...AND her career. She is a great friend whom I would do anything for to help, including the lending of props to a haunt she promotes. To keep this story as compact as possible heres how it worked out:
I went to meet the ultra charismatic millionaire owner, who focused on complimenting my 8 yr olds knowledge of props and scares, mAking me sooo proud.....took me on a personal tour of te place during daylight...NOT at all impressive except for the 3 Scarefactory $13k props.....everything else standard homemade static props and a handful of electric/simple pneumatics.....$35 for THIS was my thought but...without negotiation of any kind< and being a passionate home haunter /salesman who prides himself on good ethics and morals...agreed to lend him 4 pneumatic, 1 electric pop_up, and a slew of static quality props to fill this void. My son was so proud to see his (and Dads) Zombies being used in this huge pro haunt. A handshake and over $100 in gas/5 trips out ther for drop off, set up, actually attending and removing my props later...I realized I had been duped. He had offered me possible career opportunities managing some of his attractions, given my apparent knowledge.....filled my sons head with dreams of his Dad running one of (according to the boss..."what will ultimately be one of the top 10 Haunts in the country".....yea rite). When I went to see it...only 1 of the 3 Scarefacctory props was running....and the giant Angel of Death at the entrance remained static...the line to blow $35 on a full ticket was well over an hour wwit...and it was a a BAD nite...pouring rain. He had 1600+ paid patrons....come to find out...he had 140 people on payroll....ALL PAID!! Some of these kids would have been scarier if they were wearing masks, chillin with theyre friends talking about girls, and NOT getting paid. 

I reflect on me trying to explain to the Haunts main man in charge of operation who helped me with my props set_up and controller use...he was a retired cop who USED to love home haunts....then ran a pro haunt of his own,,,ultimately sellling to this Donald Trump student. He was miserable now...as was everyone....1 week into October....burnt out and underpaid...no longer appreciating the joy of the kids faces as they run from the monsters....I had learned a big lesson...and thou I still long to have a Haunt....(at least a hayride of my own someday)...i will never let BUSINESS take the fun out of my favorite season. Dont buy or build a haunt if you could care or less about the product....just the $$$. 

Ultimately my new Millionaire buddy didnt so much as call me to say thanks....much less offer me restitution for my gas or contributions to his haunt. The only winner was my friend, who never thought her new boss would screw me the way he did. I think she may be reconsidering her decision to work for him....In the end the manager guy felt so bad for me he left a couple regulators/filters on 2 of my pneumatics to help with the loss I took. YES...ITS MY FAULT for being a trusting guy and I still think of it as positive as long as my friends careeer was helped....but the ethics of people like this amaze and average joe like me....in the end he claimed to take a $16 LOSS (jeez.....maybe 20% PAID employees and the rest volunteers)...and didnt offer me a dime. 

Bottom line...I learned how LITTLE the QUALITY of some big haunts can be and still get away with ****ty props, $35 tix, hour long waits....and LOTS of advertising. Whn my Haunted Hayride comes it will have 10x the scare and cost maybe a quarter of this places price...smaller yes...but what are we here for....to be scared right? And YES...I take into consideration the cost of insurance and other costs/ compensation. 

Hope you enjoyed my story of the Big man vs. the naive, albeit PASSIONATE litttle man and they're adventure in the world of haunted Attractions. BTW....i STILL LOVE THIS STUFF!!


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## sickNtwisted (Sep 29, 2010)

I've ran into a lot of those douche bags. I feel for you but at least you learned something and as they say on G.I., knowing is half the battle!


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## Allen H (Feb 13, 2010)

I read your post and understand your upset, but how did he screw you? Was there an agreement to be paid? Did you ask for money? Or are you just mad because his show was bad? (which I completely understand if your name was on it).
Just trying to clarify as I may deal with this person in the future.


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## mroct31 (Nov 10, 2007)

This is a problem of taking what you love and making it a job. I'm more from the camp of my job is what enables me to do what I love. Once it's your job the fun factor and love of it often times gets lost as it's now work. It's a tough balancing act.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

I know of all of these places that you speak of. I have work a pro haunt for 4 years now that is considered part of there competition. I was actually considering getting involved with next year and now I am having second thoughts based on your story. The haunt that I work for is a not for profit haunt and is dieing a slow death. I have tried to revive it but as of the last couple years, they don't even seem interested in building it anymore. They get a month to put it together and spend the last week rushing to put it together. Including this year not being open the first week and blaming it on the weather. They were still building it. And now as I sit here and wait to get my stuff out, i keep getting every excuse in the book but I can't get in to get my prop and light and sound out. I am ready to make a legal matter of it. 

So if you if you are 80 miles from that hollow place then you may not be far from me. Consider me if you get to open that hayride. It would be nice to work with someone who still enjoys the holiday and is not in it for the money. 

I thought about doing something here at my place but I don't get tots as I live in farm country.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

By the way, that hollow place did not and has not received any good reviews since they opened a few years ago. Check out the reviews section on Scarycuse.com


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## beelce (Jul 21, 2007)

Hard way to learn a lesson......
You got to be just as ruthless as the guy your dealing with...


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## undead41 (Nov 14, 2006)

i know i didnt negotiate...but a mere THANKYOU and maybe an offer to help with gas costs would have been appreciated. All I can tell u is, my friend is not too happy there...and the people i met whom have been there for yrs are miserable and grossly underpaid. I guess you dont get fithy rich by charity or by being a nice guy...


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## undead41 (Nov 14, 2006)

STAGEHAND ck your messages....we need to talk!!


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

Sounds like a douchbag guy who ran a Ween show here at a fairground several years ago....


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## Zurgh (Dec 21, 2009)

Disconnected asses that expect you to service there needs & take no passing consideration as to any possibility of any remuneration* of your contribution (*even a simple 'thank you') save for the fact you got the honor to work for them* (*self preceeved gods) & should be grateful for the opportunity they gave you* (*a little nobody) to work for them* (*Gods) for free* (*like you should, you nothing)... should be killed, then taken to be tortured, then killed again.

More simply, that guy is an ass that needs an ass whoopin', big time, IMO.

*Edit* (An addition, not a subtraction)
Grrrr, please direct me to his/her/it's/there throat('s)... I would enjoy to bite it out & dance in the warm spurting neck-blood. It would be my pleasure. Too many times has a nice guy been used as a doormat for the self-appointed great, and trod upon to further the 'BIG MAN's perceived greatness. I hope there is a Hell & I really hope people like that go there. I'd even be glad to burn along side them, if I got to pester them for all eternity.


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## Plastic Ninja (Sep 30, 2010)

May I state, bah humbug? The guy sounds like a Halloween scrooge to me. 

Some one needs to pop a cap in his ass. Nuff said.


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## Dark Angel 27 (Sep 11, 2008)

ditto to everyone. i couldn't agree more. we build haunts for the fun of it. not to make money.

unfortunitely douche bags exist in this world...unless we do get to haunt all of them down...but unfortinitely i fear that the more we haunt down the more a thousand of them will appear to take his place.

ok, i'm done.

at least you learned a good lesson from this! better luck next year!


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## GrimmEverafter (Feb 2, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, where was this haunt? I worked at one last year, and it happened to be held at the same location as the local Renn Faire o.o If its the same one I think it is, then I can agree about it. It could have been done better, SHOULD have been done better. I even offered helping out this year with planning and props since I'm very passionate about this sort of thing. And the manager sounded like a total douche from what I heard about him on the job.


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## undead41 (Nov 14, 2006)

yep....same place as renn fair


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## GrimmEverafter (Feb 2, 2011)

Geez  That really sucks. What's sad is the people who did the actual work there last year were actually nice too...


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

Lordy....we all live within 2+ hour ride of each other. We should build our own thang. I can't do wiring, but I'll do atmosphere, paint & decorate..anything persnickety. Hey- I can dream, can't I??


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## GrimmEverafter (Feb 2, 2011)

Sweet  My area of expertise is costuming and make up, writing out enough of a back story to get the feel of a place/character, and some prop work. Costuming is my passion, though, and I even intend to learn to make my own masks and prosthetics this year!


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## PropBoy (Sep 4, 2008)

*Similar story*

undead41

I have a similar story, little better ending.
I got hooked up with a local farmer that runs a haunt. Small, low budget, a diamond in the rough and he needed some help. A friend supplied 10 high school actors that were working for him to raise money for their charity and he agreed to pay them. She told him of me and we had a meeting and tour. He and I decided I would bring some of my knowledge and props.

I saw this as "My Opportunity" to break into a pro haunt much the way I think you did. I was very mistaken. This person was much younger than me, not an issue, but he manned it with his friends and didn't take it seriously as a business, which it is, even though we love it. My suggestions on working days went out the window, his friends thought they were my boss, I wasn't paid, they behaved poorly, treated everyone with complete disrespect. They sat out of sight smoking, it was just a utter disappointment for me and I gathered my items and left after 2 weekends. I come ti find out from my friend that he tried to stiff her for her charity. After many weeks she finally got paid and it wasn't their agreed upon amount. Also it wasn't in writing.

I guess my point is the person paying the bills will do and say what ever they want. Till it is in writing or you know the person much better or on a professional level I won't take anyone at their word in matters similar to this.

Every year my garage haunt gets bigger, more fun, more scarry and more stressful. Every year the whole neighborhood embraces it, compliments me on the HARD work, the best screams ever, and the private tours for the much smaller kids that can't handle the scare. EVERYONE has a great time, me, them, actors, family and friends and I can't go pro to give this up !!!

Don't loose the dream of having your own haunt. When you need to pay actors, insurance, security, rent, and the dozens of other business items that need attention to make money to just break even. Even though it is our passion once you start to charge admission, it is a business and you do need to treat it that way to make it great and make money. I'm sure you or any of us that are passionate about would be good haunt operators.

-PB


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

you guys want to get together- I'm in. See other post "Seeking Upstate NY haunters".


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## jaege (Aug 23, 2009)

As soon as it becomes "for profit" someone will find a way to suck all the fun out of it. That applies to anything. There is always some goon that is more concerned about making another nickel than about the quality of his product.


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## psyko99 (Jan 11, 2008)

Undead41. Thanks for sharing. I used to go to the Renn fair there before it was sold. I've heard bad things about the changes he's made plus upping he ticket prices. I thought about going to check out the haunts. Now I'm glad I haven't.


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## Bodybagging (May 8, 2006)

Undead as bad as it seems, it could have been much worse for you, years ago before I went pro, I was hired to run a show, and revamp it. I brought in the majority of my high dollar props and trained their crew.... last week in the season I came down with a horrible infection that nearly killed me and couldnt be there for the last 3 nights, Not only only did I get stiffed for my 5000.00 bottom line price, The majority of my props were destroyed, mind you these were big illusion props and definite malice. bottom line, not everyone is a bad guy, and not everyones a good guy in the industry.
When I opened DarkSyde Acres I mentioned to a few home haunters that I was considering doing a Home Haunter Haunt off contest seeing how I have 14 buildings on property, they quickly turned my offer of letting them get involved with a pro haunt into me wanting something for nothing and I axed the concept.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

And then there is me. Worked for a non profit pro haunt for the last 5 years and I reinvested everything I made as a paid actor into the haunt. Used all of my gear there and tried to make it better this year. There numbers have declined over the years. I spent 3 years on the planning committee for the event and becuase of me quality was starting to improve. This year they treated me like crap and tried to accuse my girl friend of stealing money from ticket sales even though she wasn't any where near it on the day it disappeared. They still have most of my gear. I haven't had been able to get to some of it becuase of the weather but they don't ever want to be around when I try to get in. My girl friend is suing them for non payment of the last 3 weeks she was there. And I may have to sue to get my stuff out. I think I posted earlier in this thread but if i didn't. This is also a poor quality cny haunt.


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

Hmm... undead and stagehand... I'm nowhere near you, so I know I didn't work for the guys you're talking about... but I think I worked for the god they pray to... he owns the haunt monopoly in my area... treats all his people exactly like that... and runs every other haunt out of town... and then does everything he can to bury haunts (CHARITY haunts) 50-60 miles away.


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## autumnghost (Sep 12, 2009)

Revenant said:


> Hmm... undead and stagehand... I'm nowhere near you, so I know I didn't work for the guys you're talking about... but I think I worked for the god they pray to... he owns the haunt monopoly in my area... treats all his people exactly like that... and runs every other haunt out of town... and then does everything he can to bury haunts (CHARITY haunts) 50-60 miles away.


My family is running a charity haunt this year to benefit ALIVE (Alternatives to Living In Violent Environments). We're small scale compared to the stuff in the Lou but pretty big in our little corner of the world which is about 25 miles west.

Should I be worried?


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

The charity haunt I was working for in cny was losing becuase of more
Than just poor quality. There are a couple pro haunts with bigger advertising budgets that were taking some of the customers. One is the mentioned at the beginning of this thread. But it low quality. What they lack it quality was made up for in advertising. The other pro haunt is just an out of the box haunt. They buy these prepackaged haunt and dont do much to change them from year to year. Neither one of them have a wow factor. Advertising is good but unless you wow them at the door. Neither one if them get good reviews on the local website call Scarycuse.com.


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## Revenant (Mar 17, 2007)

autumnghost said:


> My family is running a charity haunt this year to benefit ALIVE (Alternatives to Living In Violent Environments). We're small scale compared to the stuff in the Lou but pretty big in our little corner of the world which is about 25 miles west.
> 
> Should I be worried?


I guess that depends on A) how much you show up on radar and B) how much you rely on newspaper advertising. The one I alluded to 50 miles away was originally here in town and basically got forced out by the Big Cheese. He then reopened his haunt about 50 miles out but, since he was a known entity by then, could barely get a mention in his small town local paper because they decided to commit their loyalty to The Guy From the City who bought out regular full-page ads. But since you haven't already had a run in with him you're probably safe for awhile.

Never underestimate the malice of an egomaniac with money. The haunt industry is one I've always dreamed of making a mark in but its underbelly is dark and swarming with toxic egos. A couple of years in an underground "radio" show and the occasional actor's stint is probably as far as I'll ever get. _sigh_


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow. I just read my last post on this thread. Sorry I type on a phone keyboard most of the time. Anyone need it interpreted.


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## Bodybagging (May 8, 2006)

jaege said:


> As soon as it becomes "for profit" someone will find a way to suck all the fun out of it. That applies to anything. There is always some goon that is more concerned about making another nickel than about the quality of his product.


Truer words have never been spoken, I used to live for Halloween, when it was for fun. I lived and breathed Halloween, any of the old timers here can attest to that. Once I made the jump to Pr Vendor, It started losing its allure, and then once i made the jump from pro vendor to Pro Haunter, forget about it! This hasnt been fun for over 5 years with the last three just being miserable..
In to deep to back out now, and cant wait for it to be FUN again.....


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## haunted canuck (Feb 8, 2009)

Get it in wrtiting and a contract before you step into the relm of "pro haunters", the handshake worked in the 1900 when it ment somthing, You also have to think of yourself as a buisness when you want to move to that next level, I was going to go in with a partner on a HH he had big plans but no Buisness sence,he got some radio station involved and a charity that did nothing to help but was willing to donate 50% of his profits to then the radio station wanted $5000 dollars for $20000 worth of"promotion" we hasd meetings in may to get things rolling I told him to secure a location without a secure location your sunk later things went south the radio station that he had talked to droped the gig he later went to another station and got them on board, he was in talks with people to get a location donated??? I dont know as I dropped the gig after the first radio station got out warning signs whent off for me. Later he started trashing me and saying things to the haunt community about how his was going to be epic... He got in a building that was above a Spirit Halloween retail store ,had talked with the retail owner but not to the Corporate spirit halloween about his HH. As he was going to go set up the Corporate Spirit halloween said no way did they want involvement with this Haunted house and negated the lease of the upper portion of the retail store. so lucily I got out of this mess when the first warning signs went off, However I was not going to do this with him without some control as to how money was going to be returned that i would spend or any thing that was to do with this Haunt venture no way was I going to get ripped off, In the end nothing happened and he later admitted defeat and was crying to others for no support. I have no respect for people that dig their own graves especially this Clown.


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