# Carpet Latex and Sawdust..... The new Paper Mache??



## niblique71

I've been experimenting lately with Carpet Latex and Sawdust as a sculpting medium. There is some serious promise to this technique. If you have a saw with a "dust capture bag", Save the sawdust. I saved mine in one of those poly- pretzel canisters to keep it dry and usable. 

Pictures will be comming soon. 

I have always resisted paper mache' as a sculpting medium because of it's lack of weather tolorance. Monster Mud is similar, as long as it stays sealed or reasonably dry, it is one of the best sculpting mediums on the planet. But add many days of humidity and rain and it will show serious signs of degradition.

But... what if you want to do a huge display and you have NO Help??? You have to put stuff out every day and leave it there untill Halloween is done. I can't imagine even the best sealed mache project surviving 30-45 days of rain and wind.

Carpet latex is more weatherproof... When you mix sawdust into it it becomes very moldable and sculptable. It takes some practice but with some minimal tutoring it can become an incredible medium for producing some amazing weatherproof props. And you can add pigment (Paint) into the meduim to reduce painting time. 

With the Sawdust added you have a meduim that you can adjust the viscosity, form like clay ( with surgical gloves) and sculpt like celluclay and mache'. And... when it's finished curing, It's already weatherproof (or as weatherproof as halloween props can get). I have become totally enamoured by this process and I have only just scratched the surface of this meduim. It's CHEAP and (need I say it again) weatherproof.

I am inviting all carpet latex folks to post pics in here, so we can promote the medium. Weather is our enemy... so why not begin to sculpt in a medium that is more weatherproof?? It's easy and has SOOO Much potential


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## RoxyBlue

Do you find drying time to be an issue when latex is mixed with sawdust? I've seen a number of posts about the problems with carpet latex taking forEVER to dry


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## niblique71

That is the only drawback to carpet latex, it still takes a long time to dry. However, the sawdust improves the drying time considerably, by absorbing moisture. Given how cheap it is, I can wait a few days to paint my creations. I've also noticed that when using fabric over chicken wire, the drying time is also improved.


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## Rahnefan

How cheap is the carpet latex, and how long does it take to dry, and does it clean up with water or spirits?


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## Bone Dancer

I dont have saw dust but I am wondering about using the blown paper mulch insulation instead. 
Drying time and layering would be my concern with the carpet latex and sawdust. 
Clean up and thinning too.


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## niblique71

Rahnefan said:


> How cheap is the carpet latex, and how long does it take to dry, and does it clean up with water or spirits?


A gallon at Lowes was $13 last year. I haven't bought any this year (yet). As far as cleanup, the container says warm water for cleanup for uncured latex (which I did last night to clean my hands).

I must admit that Drying time is a neusance if your in a hurry, but I've learned to start several projects and set them asided while I work on others. I'm going to do some more experimentation with additives and paint to see how that affects the drying time. I'm really curious to see how Latex Paint affects the drying time and workability. The drying time can take up to 5 days although Hot weather can cut that time in half.



> Bone Dancer
> 
> I dont have saw dust but I am wondering about using the blown paper mulch insulation instead.
> Drying time and layering would be my concern with the carpet latex and sawdust.
> Clean up and thinning too.


Actually the Sawdust really helps shorten the dryng time, Same with fabric as a covering meduim (Over Chicken wire). IF you can wash your hands with water then you should be able to thin the latex as well.

I will still use good mold latex for facial features since it's a lot more forgiving.

The bottom line is that I was so impressed at the meduim once I added Sawdust, I began to wonder what else could be added to further improve it's wokability and curing time. More experiments are in order.


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## Bone Dancer

Be sure to keep us posted on your experiments. It sounds very interesting.


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## Rahnefan

Hmmm...I have never worked with latex but based on what I've seen and read, I wonder what kind of interesting texture you could get by adding kitty litter (or spill-dry), and how that might affect drying time.


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## niblique71

I'm convinced there is a way to get any texture and drying time that you want, but since I'm not a chemist I'll have to keep experimenting. Rahnefan, Ya know what??? Just give it a try.. Pick a project that you don't care about finishing quickly or well... and experiment... One hint I have is if you thicken up the mixture with Sawdust (or Kitty litter) just use a paint stirrer to apply the mixture and smooth it out, A brush won;t work well once it's thicker. Think Masonry tools.... You can acheive a very smooth texture with sculpting tools or a "Slicker" tool. And if you want to smooth it further just use straight carpet latex and a paint brush libberraly. this will smooth and "Glisten" out the base coat of your original latex layer.

it is a different medium and needs different techniques... but the results can be as good as other meduims like mache' or monster mudd


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## Marrow

Think you could do this with white glue instead of Carpet Latex? I need to make a child's head for my display, and I need a realistic, smooth looking face. Great idea, dirt cheap too!


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## Dixie

Very interesting indeed -I love playing with different ingredients like this - sounds like something to play with to me! I might try the shredded insulation also, I usually measure the sawdust I have in tablespoons, but have been working on the same 4billion pound block of insulation for 4 years now, LOL (It's like bad meatloaf, no matter how much you use, it looks like you never touched it!)


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## STOLLOWEEN

Interesting technique...I've got a gallon or so of carpet latex I never ended up using..will probably try it with the cellulose fiber insulation....thanks for sharing, I love to experiment with new techniques.


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## niblique71

Thanks Stoll, as you know many of us are a HUGE fan of your work. I'm not familiar with cellulose directly although I think it might be a blukier meduim than sawdust. My experiance is that once you add sawdust to carpet latex (or mold latex) it becomes much thicker and starts to act like morter. In fact I found that using a trowel or sculpting tools to apply it works better than a brush. If you want a smoother surface, I just added some non-sawdust latex with a brush during the finishing process (While still pliable).

I posted a few pics of my version of Rhanefan's mushrooms which were made primarily with carpet latex and sawdust over several different mediums.

THe small ones were just PVC pipe for stems and plant pot's for the caps covered in this sawdust-latex medium.

the two larger ones were chicken wire and fabric with the sawdust combo added.

With all of them I used mould latex and cottenballs for facial features

Note: the larger ones dried MUCH faster (2-3 days) than the smaller ones (almost a week) due to the fact that the mixture was applied to a non-permiable surface on the smaller ones (Plastic and PVC vs Fabric and chicken wire).


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## Bone Dancer

Thanks for getting back to us on your work with this stuff. Like Dixie, I have a bag of the cellulose insulation that I had used with an experiment with elmers glue and the insulation. Bad thing was it got set aside and forgotten about. But it set up in the bucket real nicely, o-well. Anyway, keep us posted on any work you do with this material. I think the weathering factor will be a really big plus for this. Thanks again for sharing.


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## SoCal Scare

I may use this idea on my columns this year, my house is a stucco finish so this may be an easy way to replicate that using cat litter.


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## niblique71

Marrow said:


> Think you could do this with white glue instead of Carpet Latex? I need to make a child's head for my display, and I need a realistic, smooth looking face. Great idea, dirt cheap too!


You could try it, but white glue (elphatic resin) isn't waterproof unless you seal it somehow.


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## Dixie

Bone Dancer said:


> I have a bag of the cellulose insulation that I had used with an experiment with elmers glue and the insulation. Bad thing was it got set aside and forgotten about. But it set up in the bucket real nicely, o-well.


If I had a dime for every container and bucket I have lost that way, LOL. :googly:


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## JohnnyAppleseed

Oh, I love me some Latex Carpet Adhesive! I have also found that once it sets up (tacky) you can brush it with your choice of stain and it speeds up the drying time considerably. This is the only medium I use in my corpsing technique. Glad to see you continuing to experiment niblique71, think I will try your style on a new long stem and vine for my jack o'lantern scarecrow!


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## susan from creepy hollow

Last bucket of Henry carpet adhesive I bought (a month or so ago at Lowes) was $16 a gallon. So it's had a slight increase in price, but it's still a good deal for large projects...


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## Hallomarine

As an owner of 5 cats, I have never thought using of kitty litter in my projects. However, now I have a couple of new ideas to try, either with the latex or using monster mud. Hmmmm...HM


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## Joiseygal

Your mushrooms look great Greg!


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## Daphne

How heavy are the latex/sawdust props compared to Monster Mud or mache? I've never used MM but heard it was pretty heavy. 

I'd assume you have to completely paint the prop with carpet latex after you finish to make sure the sawdust is not exposed at all?

I still have a bunch of celluclay left from other projects. Wonder if I could just mix it with carpet latex instead of water? It sounds like the latex encases whatever you use anyway. It actually sounds like you could make a mache project and paint it in carpet latex and achieve the same effect (weatherproof) or am I missing something?

The mushrooms do look really cool!


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## TheOneAndOnlyKelly

What about corn starch? It definitely helps silicone to cure faster. I don't have any carpet latex on hand, else I'd try it and report back...


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## Spooky Dave

niblique71 said:


> I have always resisted paper mache' as a sculpting medium because of it's lack of weather tolorance. Monster Mud is similar, as long as it stays sealed or reasonably dry, it is one of the best sculpting mediums on the planet. But add many days of humidity and rain and it will show serious signs of degradition.
> 
> But... what if you want to do a huge display and you have NO Help??? You have to put stuff out every day and leave it there untill Halloween is done. I can't imagine even the best sealed mache project surviving 30-45 days of rain and wind.


Hey all,

I think this new method sounds really promising! Just thought I'd mention one bit about paper mache and waterproofing. I came across an experiment Scott Stoll did (Stolloween) on one of his creations. He set out a paper mache pumpkin in the elements, including lots of rain, for 112 days. At the end, there was no sign of damage.

Here's the link to the experiment, if you're curious.

http://www.stolloween.com/?page_id=4217


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## niblique71

Spooky Dave said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I think this new method sounds really promising! Just thought I'd mention one bit about paper mache and waterproofing. I came across an experiment Scott Stoll did (Stolloween) on one of his creations. He set out a paper mache pumpkin in the elements, including lots of rain, for 112 days. At the end, there was no sign of damage.
> 
> Here's the link to the experiment, if you're curious.
> 
> http://www.stolloween.com/?page_id=4217


I'm familiar with that test he did and I must say it changed my thinking about paper mache.



> Daphne
> 
> How heavy are the latex/sawdust props compared to Monster Mud or mache? I've never used MM but heard it was pretty heavy.
> 
> I'd assume you have to completely paint the prop with carpet latex after you finish to make sure the sawdust is not exposed at all?
> 
> I still have a bunch of celluclay left from other projects. Wonder if I could just mix it with carpet latex instead of water? It sounds like the latex encases whatever you use anyway. It actually sounds like you could make a mache project and paint it in carpet latex and achieve the same effect (weatherproof) or am I missing something?
> 
> The mushrooms do look really cool!


They weight will depend entirely on the armature your building on. I found that the props I've built were lighter, but I think it's because Latex is inherently flexible which means you can apply a thinner layer over a suitable armature.


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## JustJimAZ

This is probably a dumb question, but exactly what is the actual brand name of the carpet latex you bought? Carpet adhesives in my local Lowe's do not list ingredients, none mention latex on the label, and the people there have NO idea what is in any of them.

A specific commercial name - or a pic of the bottle - would be helpful. Thanks for posting about this too!


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## RavenLunatic

i love me some carpet latex too. a couple years ago i started experimenting with it mixed with the bagged dry joint compound. just added various amounts of the dry mix to the carpet latex to achieve different textures. it's my new favorite medium. the last i bought was $37 for a five gallon bucket at lowes. expect it to be about $50 by now. it's worth it. it lasts a long time. before i even started playing with it with the joint compound i'd already been making groundbreakers from carpet latex and rolled newspaper, paper towels, a foam skull, pvc torso, etc. people really do need to give carpet latex another look. i'll try to find pics of some of the smaller stuff i've done with it


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## niblique71

JustJimAZ said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but exactly what is the actual brand name of the carpet latex you bought? Carpet adhesives in my local Lowe's do not list ingredients, none mention latex on the label, and the people there have NO idea what is in any of them.
> 
> A specific commercial name - or a pic of the bottle - would be helpful. Thanks for posting about this too!


I've used Henry's Latex Carpet Adhesive #663.

I've also used the indoor stuff by Henry's (I can't remember the product #). Both worked very well and were available at Lowes. When I bought a gallon last year it was about $13 a gallon. I suspect it's much more now, but still WAY cheaper than mold making Latex.


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## Thalius Darkrune

anyone pulp up a grey egg carton with this idea yet? might make some really sculptable material.


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## Fangs

I used (thinned with water) Carpet latex adhesive over beef netting for my scarebat's wings:

http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=3936&highlight=scarebat

I'll try to fix/find the pictures... They are here somewhere...... lol :googly:

It took a few days to cure---lose some of its stickiness... But I loved working with it.


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## Fangs

Hopefully this works.... lol

scarebat pictures by DarkFangBatLady - Photobucket


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