# Hold Harmless Release



## MurrayTX (Nov 4, 2011)

I am thinking HF is needing another thread category called Operations...

So here in Texas it seems I have seen many events where there is either a Hold Harmless form signed or there is a sign erected at an entrance to a semi-public event saying if you enter, you agree to hold harmless for anything. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to be a pretty cut and dry premise. I did a search and have found many for-pay haunts have such statement to include all sorts of circumstances including negligence. See http://www.edgeofhell.com/index.php/home/safety-security.html as an example. So this has me wondering if we don't unfortunately limit ourselves out of fear of the legal boogeyman, similar to how my parents refrain throughout my teen years was that "if you do _____, we will get died and lose the house!!!!" Years later I saw how ridiculous that fear was and how baseless it was. I get that a haunt guest getting smooshed by a falling prop or wall is a big concern. But maybe ample Hold Harmless signage with the guest photo'd next to it smiling isn't enough for haunters to get over their fear of opening up their back yards as walkthroughs? Are we letting scary campfire stories spook us from really pursuing our haunt fetishes if there is a simple bit of legalese we can display to stave away the lawsuit fears?


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

Many haunts already do this, however, lawyers rip it to pieces if and when it goes to court. Especially for haunts, where most of the guests are minors, they, the minors, are not deemed mature enough or responsible for their own choices/actions, so while they may enter your haunt, having read and agreed to the terms you've posted, if and when they get injured, they claim that they were too young to understand what was going on or to realize the potential damage or injury that might be suffered. "Adults" get away with it too, saying that they never expected that "XXXXXXX" would happen or that they didn't see any sign or agree to anything. So while the Enter at Your Own Risk idea sounds like a cure all, it often tells a lawyer or jury that you knew that there was a potential for injury and still invited guests in at the risk of their health or even their life. Guess who wins those kinds of cases...


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## MurrayTX (Nov 4, 2011)

Well..... I ..... but...... ummm.... ****.


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

Sorry. I've done design work for the major amusement companies, and tons of charity*and smaller haunts, and I have lawyers and accountants in the family, so I've pretty much seen all sides of this. It would be nice to think that you could actually hold people accountable for their actions, or the lack there of, or that something like the "enter at your own risk" signs or even a signed agreement could hold up in court, but we've become such a greedy, bleeding heart society that that is no longer possible.
We want to blame lawyers, but the reality is that it's the consumer, who wants to be able to sue over anything and everything, and the bleeding heart juries who buy into the ignorance and stupidity and give away billions in awards every year. Those things have made companies and business's gun shy enough that they often pay off the plaintiff to avoid going to court, regardless of whether the people actually deserved money or not. The wild amounts of money awarded has brought in the line of thinking that fraud is normal and that somehow the money paid out by the insurance companies always comes from someone else, when in reality it comes from us, in elevated prices on insurance, and to anyone who buys insurance or does any business with anyone who buys insurance (that's US!).
Sad, but true.


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## R. Lamb (Oct 11, 2011)

I have to agree with fontgeek on this issue. A hold harmless is a good idea but in the end it isn't worth much. A person cannot sign away any rights that the state has already granted them. In the end it will all come out to wether or not a haunter showed good judgment and and reasonable fore thought to safety for any persons on the property. It's sad to say but, all of that would have to be shown in a court of law after the fact. In other words; You can post all the signs and sign all the waivers you want. In the end you may still find yourself defending your decisions in court.


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## EverydayisHalloween311 (Oct 14, 2011)

I wish it was that easy. Smart thinking, planning, proper building is all us haunters can do!


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## GOT (Apr 17, 2007)

I, personally, always sweat over letting perfect strangers with rowdy kids into my garage each year. I have never had an issue but always try to think of what disasters a group of teenagers could bring and try to come up with safeguards. Over-engineer everything!


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

After working with the amusement parks and big haunts, I've come to the conclusion that you need to make everyone feel like they are being watched at all times, and that they will be held accountable for their actions. Having physical bodies/live security that is visible (and hopefully a bit scary) throughout the haunt helps keep the troublemakers in line. The little kids I don't worry about so much as to damage to the haunt or the props, it tends to be the teenagers and twenty somethings that cause the most problems. They seem take everything as a challenge to their egos and their hormones, and want to show off like little kids, however they want to do it with adult bodies and ingenuity so the fights and damage tend to escalate the bigger or rowdier they tend to be. While they may not like the "Big Brother is Watching You" approach, it, and the willingness to actually enforce the rules tends to work the best.
Beyond that, build your haunt with total klutzes with sticky fingers and destructive attitudes in mind.


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## Turbophanx (Jun 30, 2008)

When you buy things from stores, you dont sign a hold harmless waiver.
Thats why people sue when a toe shows up in their yogurt. Or when Hot coffee burns.

I dont know of anything you can do to guarantee no one will sue you for something.
Maybe you scared someone too much, too dark, not scary enough, not enough candy, etc...

Do it because you love it, make it safe as possible, and hope for the best. I dont let people in my house or garage though for liability reasons.


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