# electrical/fire hazard advice



## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

Okay, so I nearly burned my house down tonight.
To make a long story short(er) I have one of those multi-outlet "light show" timer boxes where you can choose the 8 outlets to fade, chase, etc. I plugged my lights into it, plugged it into outlet and 3 minutes later I smelled melting plastic. My outlets are GFI, exterior wall outlets located underneath a deep, covered porch and they also have a hinged lid to keep out any mist when not in use. They have their own exclusive spot on the breaker panel...2 boxes only. 
So, how do I know what created the smell? If the show box was drawing too much power, wouldn't my breaker panel trip? The cord on the show box wasn't warm at all nor had any odor. The only place I smelled plastic was at the wall outlet (IN the wallspace, which is scary). What do I do now? Should I have the fire department come over and peek at the setup tomorrow in daylight? Do I need to call an electrician? (That's big $$...My only electrician friend who would help me out lives 10 hours away). I am actually a bit phobic about electrical stuff, so this is kinda freaking me out. How do I knwo if I melted the insulation??
Also , could you please help me to understand how much of a load I can plug into this box or into the wall outlet itself. There are 2 outlets in the box- does the load need to be equally spread between both outlets? When you explain, please pretend I am 9 years old; I need it simple. 
I don't want to be this scared ever again...well, not by burning electrical stuff, that is.


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## MistressWitch (Feb 20, 2010)

Unplug everything! I'm not an electrician, I advise a call to one and just to be safe I'd call the non-emergency # to your local fire department and explain what happened, what you are smelling and see if they can send someone out to make sure there's nothing smouldering.

*When electricity and/or fire is involved you can NOT be too safe. Error on the side of caution. The fire department will agree with me.*

The fire department can also show you what you can, can't, should & should NOT all get plugged in together.

Chances are a critter got into the wall and chewed on the electrical housing and when you plugged all that in the exposed wires touched, got hot, and melted the insulation. *IF* that's the case then it is an easy fix. There is a chance that the whole box will have to be rewired from the breakers to the box which is a pain but not horribly hard.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to divide up the load onto different breakers by using different outlets in the house if you know which outlet goes to which breaker. (an electrician can help you figure this out. There's also a two part tool you can purchase at places like Lowe's Hardware that will help you figure out what outlet goes to what breaker. HOPEFULLY the breakers are already labeled, but if they aren't it's important to have that done not just for the holidays when heavy loads are put on them but for every day reasons too)
Use as few extension cords as possible and use outdoor cords, not the lighter indoor cords. 
Explain to the electrician what you use those outlets for and show him/her what the power needs are all together. They might advise a larger breaker be put into the breaker box if your local building code will allow it. That should help prevent problems in the future.

Good luck! I know how scarry that smell can be. A few months ago I started smelling it in the living room and our tv started to flicker. When we moved the tv away from the wall we saw blue flashes in the wall/outlet. We RAN to kill the breaker and immediately changed the outlet. Took about 10 minutes to get it all done & we haven't had a problem since. I have smelled that burning plastic smell many times and I never ignore it. I will sniff everything until I find it. Smelled it at church too. Everyone told me I was nuts, no one else smelled it. I kept a really close eye on EVERYTHING (we were having a special event happening). When the event was over we started to clean up and I discovered an extension cord had been covered up and was so hot we needed oven mitts to carry it outside and the outlet was burned black. I got lots of apologies for not taking me seriously.

Trust your gut, call for help. It's NOT worth the risk.


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

UUrgghhh....yeah- I'm scared to plug anything into that outlet now. This means I gotta run some long ass extension cords to back of house to access those outlets, or run cords thru the windows to interior outlets. I have a super sensitive nose, which is a blessing & a curse. Once I unplugged everything, I was out there every 2 minutes, sniffing to make sure smell was lessening not growing & sniffing in the basement to make sure it wasn't stinky in the shared wall space down there. 
Thanks.
I still need help with the load carrying question.


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

How many lights did you have plugged in, and what kind of lights were they? The load drawn by incandescent lamps can add up quickly, but if the cord going to the light show box was cool to the touch you're probably not overloading it.

It's really hard to say what would cause the burning odor. Being the cheapskate I am it's hard for me to say this, but I'd recommend getting it checked out by an electrician. You really can't be too careful when it comes to electricity.


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## MistressWitch (Feb 20, 2010)

Each item you are plugging in will have an amp rating. Our 400 watt fogger, for instance, has a 4 amp fuse in it so it shouldn't pull more than 4 amps on the breaker.

What you need to do is add up all the amps you have plugged in and make sure that it doesn't exceed the amps on the breaker. 

So if you have a 15 amp breaker you could plug in 3 of these foggers, but 4 would be a problem for it. It might not be enough to trip the breaker but it could be enough to get it hot, maybe hot enough to melt the insulation, or worse. 

You should find the amps for each item on the box or tag and you can find out how many amps your breaker can handle by physically opening the breaker box and reading the number on the breaker. Don't worry, it's obvious on the breaker. If you have glass fuses that's a bit more tricky.


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## HomeyDaClown (Oct 3, 2009)

I recommend having all outdoor electrical outlets inspected periodically as a safety precaution, even if they are GFCI outlets, to ensure that water or moisture is not leaking into them.

It is common for the contacts in outdoor outlets to oxidize or corrode from moisture. When you plug something in, the contacts will not fully connect and there will be some sparking or arcing going on. Sometimes even the wiring to the outlet can get corroded as well.

You can buy a simple outlet tester for around $7 like this one from Lowes:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_292761-12704-61-501_0__?productId=3128411&Ntt=tester&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dtester

To do a quick check. You just plug it in and it will tell you what's wrong. If the outlet checks bad, by all means get a licensed electrician to replace it.

In the mean time, run an extension cord from a good outlet)


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

OK..thanks people. I can't sleep cuz I'm still up checking on it. No smell anymore and its beena few hours. Thanks everyone gonna go buy that thing & see if any of my FB friends suggested a friend of theirs who will come check it out for free. Maybe if I wave the charity yard haunt sign, it will be free..LOL. Okay- I'm off to my electric blanket cuz I am chilled to the bone form being outside almost all day. Peace out.


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## hpropman (Jul 27, 2008)

Deb, I agree with the others definitely have an electrician check this out for you. House electricity is nothing to fool around with or cheap out on. Your GFI outlet may have gone bad and not tripped like it is supposed to. The electrician can check all that out for you. The timing is perfect as usual - that demon Murphy rears his ugly head again. please keep us posted as to what the electrician finds. One last thing if you know what breaker it is on and nothing else (like the fridge) is on the same breaker just turn off the breaker until it can be looked at.


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## TeddyMadison (Oct 14, 2010)

Sounds like there was an amateur wiring job done in the house. I spotted a similar situation in my home but never got to the point where there was an issue. Basically, in my situation, there was 15 amp wire routed to a 20 amp breaker, when this is done, the wire is acting like a fuse. You start to draw more than 15 amps and the wire starts to heat up, the breaker doesn't let go because your not exceeding its limit. Eventually the wire could get hot enough to melt the casing. Worst case is that the casing melts to the point of exposure and the wires short. The breaker will let go at this point but a fire can still happen due to the spark when it shorted.

Shut that breaker off and get someone to take a look at it.

Edit: A GFI is protection from the outlet forward so it protects you and not the wiring behind it. As long as the power flow from hot to neutral is balanced, it will not trip.


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

Thanks for the explanation & vidoe links! 

We had actually hired an electrician to put in new outlets just for Ween 6 years ago. Two HANDSOME firemen came today with a heat seeker camera and found no heat, so that's good, but they did say my GFI outlets are not GFI"S?? I think they just arent wired up as a GFI or something? I dunno...So I at least feel safer knowing there is no smouldering fire in my dry-as-a-stick house. Now I'm calling all my local buds to find a GOOD electrician. I have had one huge expense after the other this fall...


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## debbie5 (Mar 2, 2007)

In that video, I love how the guy doesn't check again to make sure the outlet is REALLY off...
When we 1st moved in to this house, it was wired so badly that we had a ceiling fixture that when you flipped the switch ON, it would shoot the lighbulb clear across the room. We also had arcing in the basement...took us 6 hours to figure out it was a screw thru the wiring in an outlet in a bedroom. WHY a screw in the BEDROOM would make the wiring in the BASEMENT arc is beyond me. Hence, my fear of electrical stuff. Plus the fact I've been electrocuted twice....once sticking me to the device, the 2nd time shooting me across the floor.
I'm gonna have my dad pull the outlet. He's a very handy guy and will be able to check it all out. Thank you SO MUCH everyone! say a prayer that I don't need an electrician...yet. If I DO need one, I will just not use those 2 outlets at all and just run extension cords thru windows for all my Ween lighting. I can't afford any more hundreds-of-dollars expenses right now..it will have to wait 'til November.


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

was the smell out doors or in your house?


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

Just some safety advice. First, remember, a GFCI is not an overload circuit breaker. It is only there to protect against ground faults. If something get wet for example, it should trip. GFCI are required by code in every state for outdoor outlets and wet areas. 

Now on to loads and breakers. Size matters. The size of a wire can only handle so much. A wire to small for the breaker can heat up and start a fire. First about the size. 10 gauge wire is bigger and 14 gauge wire is smaller. A 15 amp breaker should have 14 gauge or bigger wire, 20 amp - 12 gauge or bigger, 30 amp - 10 gauge or bigger. The wiring device has a rating to. Most residential outlets are rated at 15 amps. 20 amps are usually considered commercial grade. 

So here is where it gets tricky. If you outside outlet is rated for 20 amps and you are useing a 16 gauge extension cord then keep an eye on your wattage. Here is a calculator. Amps x volts = watts. That means if you household voltage is 120v then you can connect 1920 watts to that 16 gauge extension cord. Every appliance or electrical using device has an amps or watts rating on it. For some things it might be listed in the instruction manual. All lighting and prop controllers have a rating as to what they can handle. The electronics in most generic lighting controllers can't handle more than 600 watts per channel and some can't handle more than 600 watts for the entire unit. 

One more tip. If you have overheated an extension cord you may have changed it capacity. As a wire heats up it's resistance increases making it more likely to heat upmeven more. Even if the insulation on a wire dosent melt it may have become hot enough to permananly change it's resistance. Dirty contacts and corrosion on a plug also causes resistance and can make things heat up. 

Alot of this is true with speaker systems as well. If you use wire to small for the speaker and amp then you can heat up the wire or damage the amp. 

Ok. I am done with the electrical safety class. Lol

Sorry for blabbering.


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