# Axe Worthy for distance



## wheussmann (Sep 30, 2010)

(background)

I live on a cul de sac with 11 houses, and have great nieghbors! honestly couldn't ask for better! (well i could but it would envolve a bunch a playmates..thats another story)
I do an all out yard haunt and have alot of kids each year and love it.. nieghbors love it to but wanted to cut their cost on candy down so we had a block party and came up with they will buy the candy for that haunt and i can use more of the street to build and set up the haunt.
each year a theme is voted and this year(2011) it is Harry Potter and halloween town a vote casting tie!!

now on to my question my cul de sac is ruffly 1/8 mile long with 4 light pole about 160 or so feet apart. has anyone had any experiance with doing an Axe Worhty ghost set up this distance?

I am thingking of doing a snitch with a seeker chasing him. I have access to some high torqure (up to 150 ft #'s mid rpm from 6 to 60 rpm motors due to work I do. so drive strength is not an issue..

I am looking at setting this up and trying to eliminate some of the issues (minus some of the headache) 

could anyone advise....

P.S. I have done this in smaller scale on my own yard and have knowledge and success. just know that trial and error abound when going large


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## Thisaintmayberry (Aug 23, 2010)

Two challenges that come immediately to my mind are:
1. You're spanning great distances - The weight of your prop(s) will dictate how far up the pole your turning points will need to be mounted so your props don't droop into the "gotcha" reach zone of the TOTs. You'll have to test this well in advance.

2. If it fails the night of, how will you know? Can you see the entire run from your vantage point? Would you be able to re-string the line with/without help? You'll need bullet-proof turning points.

I like the idea and would love to live in a neighborhood like yours!


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## wheussmann (Sep 30, 2010)

I can see the entire run from the end of the cul de sac. (i will make a drawing or see if I can get and over head photo) my goal is to make the snitch out of a styrofoam ball big enough to be seen but not to wieghty. the seeker I am thinking balsa wood for wieght

i currently use bicycle rims for my turning points and have enough problems with them.
honestly over that length run those are my concern to keeping it on track last thing I want is little sally in her dead cheerleader outfit to get smacked and drug by a seeker.

do you know of a wider pulley that has been tested or a way to guide it on track to the pulley?


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

Some other issues that come to mind are:

1) The strength vs stretch of your line. Most rope will stretch quite a bit over time especiall when wet. Given the distance, I would try 150lb test braided fishing line (Used for shark fishing or tuna). The new braided stuff is amazingly strong and will NOT stretch. I use the 80lb test line cause it's almost invisable even during the daytime. My span is about 80' and is triangle shaped.

2) You will most likely need to use a similar pully system to a ski lift where the weight is carried by virtical pullys to help guide the string into the horizontal pullys (When changing direction). MY system uses a single pully at each turning point but my distance between pully's allows this without undue friction to support the weight. If you use this setup you'll need to create "J" style mounts for your creatures to fly on.

3) I would attempt for this year (2011) a single run between two of the light poles. Once you figure out what will work, then the following year take the plunge and go for distance. You will most likely need a more elaborate pully system since I doubt that the light poles will be perfectly aligned. If 3 of the poles form a reasonable triangle, than go for that this year and expand after that. A triangle flight path is preferred for a first time axworthy.

4) You say that these are light poles?? do you mean telephone poles? or decorative street lighting? Either way they are probably owned by the township or utility. I would be aware that if you get caught attaching something to these poles that you might be asked to remove them simply for safety reasons. Wet rope or string (however unlikely) can carry a charge between the poles or even to a human if your contraption fails. Utility companies highly frown on homeownerse attaching things to thier poles especially if you are attaching something higher up as well as attaching something that has power (Drive motor -AC or DC). A safer alternative is to mount your drive mechanism on your house and use the poles for pully's only in a triangle shape if possible. Just a thought.

I would love to see this if you give it a shot. My axworthy has been running 200 hours a year for the last 6 seasons with only 2 failures that were both my fault.


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## BTH (Jul 2, 2006)

This is something I've never used but it is something I think might work for you. I can't find the link to the post, but the picture explains it just as well. This would also allow you more weight on your line............in my opinion!


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## wheussmann (Sep 30, 2010)

Those are both awesome and helpful ideas...

I have spoken to the city about attaching to the poles (steetlights)








thats the base I will take a pic down the street this weekend.

the city Okayed me attaching as long as I didnt create heavy lateral pull I think it was more then 40 lbs of lateral pull I think will have to get confirmation now that i am thinking of it. (I can't find the email from the city engineer to save my life lol)

the poles are 25 ft in hiegtht start as a 6X6" square at the base and taper to 3X3" at the top where the light mounts.

I am going to attempt to run from house , over the haunt area, at about 10 ft up to 15ft as it runs down to each pole and the street.

I agree with the thought of running one span from house to pole to test and want to do a santa sleigh to test this. I have a balsa wood sleigh and riegndeer that is 2.3 lbs so this weekend I will be attempting this feat (weather permiting talking high winds for weekend)

I have 333 days to work this out and sounds like i am going to need each and everyone>>>


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## wheussmann (Sep 30, 2010)

BTH said:


> This is something I've never used but it is something I think might work for you. I can't find the link to the post, but the picture explains it just as well. This would also allow you more weight on your line............in my opinion!


II like this, I have always had problems getting min to stay up this would solve that for the short run unit ... and quite possibly for the other

Also I have used the braided lines like spider wire and like em havent tried any of the real heavy tests...


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*Guide pulleys.*

With my small pulley axworthy, I have as of yet not required guide pulleys. Now my current spans never exceeds 60 feet.






My props weigh about 6 oz each. They are spaced out of course, however at times two will be on one span. Once I got my drive to be positive, I have had no failures related to the string popping off. I use 150 lb braided line. Very little stretch. One of my pulleys is mounted on a swing arm that is heavily spring loaded. The key of course is to get the string as taught as possible. Of course this puts quite a bit of load on the pulleys. But since these pulleys are sliding glass door pulleys, the bearings are beefy enough to handle the load. I have never had a pulley failure and they run amazingly quiet. I force grease into the bearing each year. My biggest improvement was the drive. In my first attempt at a drive, I had a small pulley on the motor. Because of the tension I was placing on the string, the contact surface area was too small and any kind of added resistance would cause the string to stall and immediately burn through. The motor I use is likely running at around 3000 RPM. Then I added a plumbing washer to the drive. One of those odd looking fat washers that look like they are made out of old tires. This worked well, but even then the line would slowly cut a grove in the washer and cause failures. The latest design works without a hitch. I added a swing arm and post to mount a hard rubber caster. I ground the caster down to fit, width wise and I ground a U shaped grove in it. This serves two purposes. It keeps the string centered on the caster and it provides a surface for a fat o ring mounted on the drive roller to drive the caster. The only thing about the drive I do not like at this point is that I am placing quite a side load on the motor. Probably more than I need to get a positive drive. My next drive I will make the caster roller fixed and spring load the motor to press against the caster roller.

I too want to expand on the axworthy distance. Actually I would like to make a larger scale unit to fly from a drive mounted at the peak of my roof to across the street to either a neighbors palm tree or their roof. Another neighbor down the street also has palm trees. so I have a good chance to make a decent run. I would really like a big prop with animation and sound. But that will mean weight, and unfortunately weight is our enemy when it comes to axworthy's.

On another thread a member shared the bow roller. You may want to take a look at those.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/pro...&pdesc=Super_Bow_Roller&aID=603G&merchID=4006

As far as guide rollers. I think a roller set at an angle is the answer. But if the prop is swinging in the wind, the drop string could catch behind the roller. So I would mount a guide to guard against that from happening.

Good luck on your project. I am truly surprised the city said you could mount stuff on their poles. That would not happen here in San Diego.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

I just did a weight test on my setup (the line and pully's are up 365 days a year). I placed 2lbs of weight in the center of the longest run (about 70') and it deflected the line downward by more than 18" with about 30lbs of lateral tension on the (80lb test) line. This much weight would definately derail the string as the weight approached the pully (in my setup). In this scenario you will definately need guide pully's just like BTH posted earlier. The downside of this is that you will now need to make upside down "J" mounts to allow your Ghosts (Sled?) to clear the extra "carrier" pullys (just like the chairs are mounted on a ski-lift cable). You will also have to "Hard mount" your pullys to the light poles (Instead of using a couple of bungee chords or rope for example). 

On the other hand, something light weight would most likely work very well on your setup even at those longer distances. Since since my ghosts sort of "Fly", the downward weight is reduced even more when it's running, and allows for an extremely simple and fast; ghost mounting, pully mounts and drive setup. This would also allow you to attach your pullys to the light post in seconds using nothing more than bungee chords or rope. Also, using this setup, the pullys will "Self align" using just the tension of your line. In 1200+ hours of use, I've never had the string derail from my pully setup.

Although I've seen many axworthy's run very well on a 2 pully setup, a 3 pully setup (Triangle shaped) allows you to run multiple objects (like reindeer and a sleigh) without hitting itself as it goes around the pullys at each end. It looks like you might be able to do this triangle setup using two of the poles and your house.

As I think this through, You might want to start with something much lighter than your current sleigh (Christmas angels??). I have a feeling that you might need far more than 40lbs of lateral tension to keep your heavier sleigh from sagging unacceptably even with Non stretch line and "Carrier" pullys. 

In one way or another, this can be done.

Hope this helps,

Greg


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## wheussmann (Sep 30, 2010)

That help tremndouly(sp) i have played the last two halloween with a small two pulley set up then a 3 pulley last year. i have had a little success but also failure when you least expect it..
(muphy"s law) if it's going to go wrong it will when you knee deep in toter's
my worry is the lateral forces. (to keep the city apeased)

I am coing down to weight. as always. the snitch is a no brainer wieght and control wise 

the seeker 

is going to be the issue to make fly straight and look kinda like one. and be the right wieght.

every little bit of information will help in this one. (why do I feel like I am doing a highschool science project?)

As I build I will keep you all updated.

oh and if you think of or want to add anything please do!!!! I need all the help I can get>>


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## Dead Things (Apr 4, 2009)

Here's a vid of mine. I've had good success with it, however, it is very wind sensitive. Mine is a bit different from others I have seen. It doesn't run on a level horizontal plane. The drive motor is mounted on a stand about 4' off the ground and the two guide pulleys are mounted onto the eaves of the house. So the line is about 25 degree rise over a 35' span. The motor is about 60 rpm, the drive wheel circumference is about 40", so the ghosts travel 40" per second. I`ve seen others run faster but I am comfortable with this speed. I use 3 plastic skulls, which had long pieces of cheescloth draped over them but this year I cut it back and used shorter pieces of tule, which is much stiffer. The cheesecloth got whipped around in the wind and would get caught in the pulleys.






I would think the biggest thing is not only how the line stays on the pulleys (already discussed) but what happens if/when it falls off. Mine for the most part drops to the ground but the line has got tangled in the motor. This a design flaw in my system, in how the motor has to be mounted to the stand. My motor has a lot of torque, and when the line wrapped around it I was suprised it didn't do more damage (like rip the pulleys off the house, lol). One of the reasons I run this setup is I don't have anywhere else to mount the motor on a level plane without crossing over a walkway, and I wouldn't want the line dropping on a TOT.


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## Sblanck (Sep 13, 2007)

Have you cleared it with the nutty neighbor? Might be too scary for her kids and you will need to shut it off.


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## Thisaintmayberry (Aug 23, 2010)

Here's a shot of my Axworthy drive with guide wheels. I run a pretty heavy prop that deflects my 50lb kevlar line about 12" at mid distance. The rollers are skate board wheels that I grooved slightly. One below and one above the line. No problems with prop derailment in 4 years of deployment.


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## Aquayne (Sep 1, 2008)

I posted the version I designed using two charger plates to form the pulley. I used it again this year and all went well. You do have to keep the weight down.
Why dont you make the dragons from "The Goblet of Fire". They can fly around the course.

http://www.hauntforum.com/showthread.php?t=17831&highlight=big+johnson+axworthy+ghost


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