# Sticky  Can we get shut down? Heck ya. It is up to you to do the research.



## Hauntiholik

This topic has come up every year when someone's haunt gets shut down and a reminder warning was brought up at the last Colorado gathering. Since we have a new influx of members it's time to get y'all thinking about safety.

In Fort Collins, Colorado, ALL haunted houses are required to obtain a permit and pass a fire inspection. It doesn't matter if you are charging admission or not the rules must be followed. Now, there is no distinction between a "haunted house" and a "yard haunt" on the government website but the rumor at the Colorado gathering was that yard haunts also had to follow the same rules.

Here's what the haunters in Fort Collins have to do:
1. All haunted houses must conform to the Uniform Building Code for temporary buildings or structures.
2. No fire protection systems (alarms or sprinklers) in any building shall be obstructed by the construction of this haunted house.
3. “NO SMOKING” signs must be posted at the entrance.
4. There shall be trained staff members with flashlights available at all times. These staff members must know the interior maze, exit facilities, and enforce “no smoking” restrictions within the area.
5. No readily combustible material can be used for construction or decoration in the haunted house unless it is treated with a flame-retardant chemical. NO BLACK PLASTIC IS ALLOWED.
6. All electrical wiring must conform to the National Electrical Code for temporary installations.
7. Fire extinguishers of at least a 2A rating must be placed every 75 feet of travel distance. The trained staff must know where they are and how to use them.
8. Customers may be required to be escorted through the haunted houses by haunted house staff, i.e. 10 in/10 out.
9. Additional single station smoke detectors may be required by the Fire Marshal.
An on-site consultation and inspection of the area to be utilized as a “haunted house”

What sort of rules do you have to follow in your city?

Another huge WTH was that home haunts and pro haunts had to carry additional insurance (home owners insurance wasn't enough). I haven't found anything online yet to back this up. Apparently the fraternities and sororities may have been playing fast and loose with public safety (rumor) and the city government decided to drop the hammer before anyone got hurt.

Revenant mentioned fire inspections and black plastic on Hauntcast a few shows back. It was an important warning. Did you know that fabric/plastic that has been treated with a fire retardant has a shelf life of a YEAR??? That's right. One year, one season. That means there could be haunts out there that will not pass a fire inspection due to 366 day old material.

If you are doing a walk though or haunted house it is up to you to make sure that your structure passes codes. All it takes is one neighbor or one rival haunt to make a call to the fire department and get you shut down. 

Take a few moments, do the research and protect yourself and your hobby/passion/addiction.


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## Ironside

Good advice.

This is one of the main reasons I don't do a walk-through haunted house anymore, it has become WAY too big of a risk - the liability is through the roof!

If someone trips and falls down my basement stairs, I don't feel like getting sued and LOSING my house because of it!

Nicest part about doing a yard/garage haunt is that you don't require any kind of permits to have someone walk up your driveway to get candy.

As long as it's not a "true" haunted house in the traditional sense (maze of hallways, etc) in your garage, I doubt you will need any special permits.

People basically just walk in, look around, say "wow" a lot, then take candy and leave.

Nice and simple. :ninja:


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## RandalB

Fortunately for us, the lawn display is not considered an Attraction per se. 

I have however done the local grade school's "Haunted Gym" fundraiser last year and this year. I decided to work closely with the local fire inspector to stick to the rules as close as possible (Save Headaches). They allowed us to use 4 Mil plastic for the walls as it met their fire resistance spec's (We had to test it with the fire department and provide MSDS info). I did the maze design with with the rules in mind and things worked out great. We opened with 0 fire code violations as opposed to the 58 they had the last time the attraction was run (5 years ago).

Couple of Indiana rules:

1) Guides - over 18 and equipped with flashlights
2) Exits - every room must have an emergency exit and hallways must lead to a room equipped with emergency exits.
3) Overhead sprinklers and fire alarms - All rooms must be equipped with both (Gym already had them in place, just couldn't put a roof on the whole thing)
4) Fire resistant material. 4 Mil Visqueen type building sheet material met minimum standards for fire resistance. 
5) All outlets must be attached to GCFI. 

I had to provide a copy of plans of the attraction indicating the locations of exits, outlets and fire extinguishers. There was an inspection of the whole attraction one hour before opening with all lighting and props active. I also joined with the local fire department's food drive charity and got a couple of firefighters to hang around for the nights in question which made things easier. The inspectior even offered to allow us to use fog machines if we wanted. I didn't last year but I ordered a gallon of fast dissapating fluid from Gorey Minion and I think we are going to give it a shot this year.

RandalB


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## Ironside

It's kind of funny/scary how I went all those years with a full walk-through haunted house in the basement of my parents house without even thinking about all the potential rules I was breaking.

I mean, we always made sure safety was the #1 priority. We would keep a fire extinguisher or two on hand, post lots of safety rules, have actors posted all through-out the haunt with flashlights just in case, I would even follow EVERY SINGLE group through to keep an eye on things (in costume of course) with only 1 group of 4-5 people allowed in at a time, PERIOD.

I suppose we must have been lucky NOT to have been inspected. Maybe because we were raising money for crime stoppers, nobody wanted to complain (good cause, plus run by cops).

Come to think about it though, it was awfully dark in the haunt... no way of turning on emergency lights and if you don't know where you are it would take a few extra seconds to get to the exit.

All the more reason I dont want to take on that headache at my own house. 

Now that i'm a home-owner myself, I think "wow, my mom was NUTS to let us do this in her house and take on the risk"

I find that, if you want to truly go pro, there are too many hoops to jump through and there simply isn't enough money to be made in haunted houses to justify the cost it would take to run (and I HATE haunted houses that charge UN-GODLY amounts like $15-$20 person) when you consider that you're only IN there maybe 10 minutes (if that).

Besides, the main reason I would want to build a haunt in the first place is for FUN, not as a business venture. 

Ah well, good thing I took LOTS of pictures.


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## Darkmaster

Ironside said:


> It's kind of funny/scary how I went all those years with a full walk-through haunted house in the basement of my parents house without even thinking about all the potential rules I was breaking.
> 
> I mean, we always made sure safety was the #1 priority. We would keep a fire extinguisher or two on hand, post lots of safety rules, have actors posted all through-out the haunt with flashlights just in case, I would even follow EVERY SINGLE group through to keep an eye on things (in costume of course) with only 1 group of 4-5 people allowed in at a time, PERIOD.
> 
> I suppose we must have been lucky NOT to have been inspected. Maybe because we were raising money for crime stoppers, nobody wanted to complain (good cause, plus run by cops).
> 
> Come to think about it though, it was awfully dark in the haunt... no way of turning on emergency lights and if you don't know where you are it would take a few extra seconds to get to the exit.
> 
> All the more reason I dont want to take on that headache at my own house.
> 
> Now that i'm a home-owner myself, I think "wow, my mom was NUTS to let us do this in her house and take on the risk"
> 
> I find that, if you want to truly go pro, there are too many hoops to jump through and there simply isn't enough money to be made in haunted houses to justify the cost it would take to run (and I HATE haunted houses that charge UN-GODLY amounts like $15-$20 person) when you consider that you're only IN there maybe 10 minutes (if that).
> 
> Besides, the main reason I would want to build a haunt in the first place is for FUN, not as a business venture.
> 
> Ah well, good thing I took LOTS of pictures.


*I have to agree 100%*. I keep reading posts that people say "*I don't charge any money, so I don't need any insurance". *Any time someone steps on your property, you are liable. Now combine that with an atmosphere of scare and low lights and fog, and now the possibilities of increased. We have our home owner policy and I also buy an additional policy for the nights that we will be open.

We run a haunt for charity and we don't make a profit. If we were to charge more to cover our expenses, we would turn away a lot of people. I do everything possible to make sure there are no accidents. We monitor the people, and control the situations.

As much as I enjoy building my haunt and scaring the &%# out of people, this will probably be our last year. I have improved our haunt since the first time scaring. When I look back at the older photos and compare to the new scares and scenes, I'm proud of the work. I don't like to think of giving this up, since I work on it year round and it is left up year round. I just don't want to see someone come through and take it all away. So, this last year will be the best year for us.

Good luck and happy haunting.


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## Darkmaster

Hauntiholik said:


> This topic has come up every year when someone's haunt gets shut down and a reminder warning was brought up at the last Colorado gathering. Since we have a new influx of members it's time to get y'all thinking about safety.
> 
> In Fort Collins, Colorado, ALL haunted houses are required to obtain a permit and pass a fire inspection. It doesn't matter if you are charging admission or not the rules must be followed. Now, there is no distinction between a "haunted house" and a "yard haunt" on the government website but the rumor at the Colorado gathering was that yard haunts also had to follow the same rules.
> 
> Here's what the haunters in Fort Collins have to do:
> 1. All haunted houses must conform to the Uniform Building Code for temporary buildings or structures.
> 2. No fire protection systems (alarms or sprinklers) in any building shall be obstructed by the construction of this haunted house.
> 3. "NO SMOKING" signs must be posted at the entrance.
> 4. There shall be trained staff members with flashlights available at all times. These staff members must know the interior maze, exit facilities, and enforce "no smoking" restrictions within the area.
> 5. No readily combustible material can be used for construction or decoration in the haunted house unless it is treated with a flame-retardant chemical. NO BLACK PLASTIC IS ALLOWED.
> 6. All electrical wiring must conform to the National Electrical Code for temporary installations.
> 7. Fire extinguishers of at least a 2A rating must be placed every 75 feet of travel distance. The trained staff must know where they are and how to use them.
> 8. Customers may be required to be escorted through the haunted houses by haunted house staff, i.e. 10 in/10 out.
> 9. Additional single station smoke detectors may be required by the Fire Marshal.
> An on-site consultation and inspection of the area to be utilized as a "haunted house"
> 
> What sort of rules do you have to follow in your city?
> 
> Another huge WTH was that home haunts and pro haunts had to carry additional insurance (home owners insurance wasn't enough). I haven't found anything online yet to back this up. Apparently the fraternities and sororities may have been playing fast and loose with public safety (rumor) and the city government decided to drop the hammer before anyone got hurt.
> 
> Revenant mentioned fire inspections and black plastic on Hauntcast a few shows back. It was an important warning. Did you know that fabric/plastic that has been treated with a fire retardant has a shelf life of a YEAR??? That's right. One year, one season. That means there could be haunts out there that will not pass a fire inspection due to 366 day old material.
> 
> If you are doing a walk though or haunted house it is up to you to make sure that your structure passes codes. All it takes is one neighbor or one rival haunt to make a call to the fire department and get you shut down.
> 
> Take a few moments, do the research and protect yourself and your hobby/passion/addiction.


With our haunt, I have increased the number of fire extinguishers and smoke alarms in the areas. If needed, the main lighting inside can be turned on at any time. Signs are posted at the beginning warning patrons of what will be inside, IE: low lights, noise, fog, strobes and a lot of scaring. Our one year we sponsored the fire department, we had the fire chief and his wife come through. There was no mention of inspections from him. Maybe if there are more opening up in our area, it will become an issue and restrictions and laws will be enforced. Signs are posted at exits and emergency exit is readily available. When I build, I build with the thought of me walking through the first time and looking at what could be a problem.

We had 2 incidents, last year, where patrons went into walls and broke them. I'm glad it happened, because I didn't think it was possible and then those walls and others were reinforced.

We have used 2 way radios and are always in contact with the workers inside. We have workers with flashlights. This year everyone will have a light to carry. It helps in emergencies, but to also just get through the haunt to their scenes.

When building, build it as if you were the customer.

Happy haunting and keep it safe.


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## Hauntiholik

Another haunting season approaches so give this a read if you haven't done so already.


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## jaege

They can't call yard displays "haunted houses" and run them by the same rules. If that were the case then every Christmas display would also have to meet those conditions.


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## Hauntiholik

jaege said:


> They can't call yard displays "haunted houses" and run them by the same rules. If that were the case then every Christmas display would also have to meet those conditions.


True, but if you have a structure that people walk through then it can fall under the rules. Most Christmas displays do not involve a walk through with walls and rooms.


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## tattman98

Ironside said:


> It's kind of funny/scary how I went all those years with a full walk-through haunted house in the basement of my parents house without even thinking about all the potential rules I was breaking.
> 
> I mean, we always made sure safety was the #1 priority. We would keep a fire extinguisher or two on hand, post lots of safety rules, have actors posted all through-out the haunt with flashlights just in case, I would even follow EVERY SINGLE group through to keep an eye on things (in costume of course) with only 1 group of 4-5 people allowed in at a time, PERIOD.
> 
> I suppose we must have been lucky NOT to have been inspected. Maybe because we were raising money for crime stoppers, nobody wanted to complain (good cause, plus run by cops).
> 
> Come to think about it though, it was awfully dark in the haunt... no way of turning on emergency lights and if you don't know where you are it would take a few extra seconds to get to the exit.
> 
> All the more reason I dont want to take on that headache at my own house.
> 
> Now that i'm a home-owner myself, I think "wow, my mom was NUTS to let us do this in her house and take on the risk"
> 
> I find that, if you want to truly go pro, there are too many hoops to jump through and there simply isn't enough money to be made in haunted houses to justify the cost it would take to run (and I HATE haunted houses that charge UN-GODLY amounts like $15-$20 person) when you consider that you're only IN there maybe 10 minutes (if that).
> 
> Besides, the main reason I would want to build a haunt in the first place is for FUN, not as a business venture.
> 
> Ah well, good thing I took LOTS of pictures.


We only charge $4.00 for the haunt and it all goes too a charitable organization in our town Last year we made 1000.00 toward our organization in 2 nights. Not bad for 2 nights of scare fest.


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## Darkmaster

*Don't take the risk*

There have been a lot of posts about home haunts and insurance. We had to change our main carrier because of the "haunted house setup". Our first insurance co. told us "as long as you are accepting money of any type, ie: admission or donation", that removes you from the classification of home haunt. If there was no money involved, the home owners policy would be sufficiant. Now we have the main carrier and an additional carrier and policy for the nights the haunt is open. It's peace of mind.

Luckily, our area has not enforced the issue of inspections and permits. I don't look forward to the day the neighbors call them and complain about our haunt and the traffic. So for now, I do the best I can to make sure everything is safe and prevent any problems from happening. Remember, it only takes one person to call and complain, then they're at the door knocking and will find something to shut you down.

The season is approaching fast, so have fun and enjoy it.


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## poyntert

That's the great part of living in Germany, no liability laws. Plus, the host nationals have their own social insurance. If someone was to get hurt, then they go to the emergency room and show their healthcare card. In our haunt, we do try to keep safety #1. I have four large fire extinguishers, emergency shutoffs, backup battery exit signs, first-aid kits, flashlights for the actors, and radios for the guides. The one thing I didn't think about is smoke alarms. That's an easy thing to manage. The forum does bring up good points to be aware of.


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## Darkmaster

*All areas covered*



poyntert said:


> That's the great part of living in Germany, no liability laws. Plus, the host nationals have their own social insurance. If someone was to get hurt, then they go to the emergency room and show their healthcare card. In our haunt, we do try to keep safety #1. I have four large fire extinguishers, emergency shutoffs, backup battery exit signs, first-aid kits, flashlights for the actors, and radios for the guides. The one thing I didn't think about is smoke alarms. That's an easy thing to manage. The forum does bring up good points to be aware of.


This looks like you have all the points covered.


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## debbie5

Just eat anyone who gets injured.


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## Dark Star

debbie5 said:


> just eat anyone who gets injured.


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## Eric Striffler

Ironside said:


> I HATE haunted houses that charge UN-GODLY amounts like $15-$20 person) when you consider that you're only IN there maybe 10 minutes (if that).


Jeez. You think the work that goes into designing and building a commercial haunted attraction isn't even worth $15? That's a pretty fair price, if you ask me.


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## Spartan005

Eric Striffler said:


> Jeez. You think the work that goes into designing and building a commercial haunted attraction isn't even worth $15? That's a pretty fair price, if you ask me.


It really depends on the haunt IMO. $15 is pretty cheap nowadays, but some haunts, especially here in New York, are total rip-offs. Blood manor charges $35 for a single haunt that uses scene setters. Ever go to Bayville Scream Park? That place only charges $15 per haunt, but 4 out of 5 of them are uninspired pieces of crap. In one of them, you just walk through a maze of plastic walls outdoors with no lighting, and occasionally an actor in cheap makeup jumps out. It was horrible.

If you ever get the chance, make the trip out to headless horseman. You pay 30 bucks and go through 5 really great haunts that last about an hour all together.


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## Eric Striffler

Spartan005 said:


> Blood manor charges $35 for a single haunt that uses scene setters. Ever go to Bayville Scream Park? That place only charges $15 per haunt, but 4 out of 5 of them are uninspired pieces of crap. In one of them, you just walk through a maze of plastic walls outdoors with no lighting, and occasionally an actor in cheap makeup jumps out. It was horrible


Oh I totally agree with you on that front, we've got even more of those on Long Island than there are in the city, BUT on the flip side I think some haunts are worth a lot more than they charge!


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## Hauntiholik

This thread isn't about ticket prices. Please stay on topic.


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## Buzz

poyntert said:


> The one thing I didn't think about is smoke alarms.


Hmmmmm, can fog machines set them off?


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## Hauntiholik

Buzz said:


> Hmmmmm, can fog machines set them off?


It depends on what kind of smoke detector you have (ionization or photoelectric).

A ionization smoke detector testes the chemical makeup of the air and the fog should not trigger it.

A photoelectric smoke detector uses a beam of light and the fog can break the beam and trigger the alarm.


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## Just Whisper

Where can you go to find out if your haunt falls into this category, and to find out what the requirements are in your state for safety and insurance, etc? Thanks.


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## Eric Striffler

Just Whisper said:


> Where can you go to find out if your haunt falls into this category, and to find out what the requirements are in your state for safety and insurance, etc? Thanks.


Call up your Town Hall and ask, they'll tell you what you need!


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## debbie5

Eric Striffler said:


> Call up your Town Hall and ask, they'll tell you what you need!


It helps to have a pan of warm brownies available to munch on while you chat. really.


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## Frightmaster-General

*Fremont cracks down on haunted house*

The scariest feature of the Stelle family's haunted house attraction this year is all the red tape the family has to cut through to make it happen.

The Fremont family's plans to continue their six-year tradition were severed when they received a notice last week from the city's building and safety department, which said the Halloween haunt is in violation of several municipal codes.

Read more:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/14/BAS51LHC8U.DTL


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## EverydayisHalloween311

I'm making a small short walk through in my one car garage. The only lights i have are 2 small wal-mart halloween strobe lights. I did put a fire alarm at the middle point of my garage. There is only one exit though. I live in a country town of about 900 people and i don't think there is really any town codes to follow. I have signs made, enter at your own risk. Not charging as its cool but nothing spectacular. I'm removing the side door the night of the garage haunt. Me and a few friends will be walking in it and outside scaring people. I'm only allowing 3 people in at a time b/c it's not a huge walk through. I think i should be alright. I'm gonna have a table outside my garage where the garage door is where my wife will be handing out candy then people can choose to go through or not.


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## RandalB

Hauntiholik said:


> It depends on what kind of smoke detector you have (ionization or photoelectric).
> 
> A ionization smoke detector testes the chemical makeup of the air and the fog should not trigger it.
> 
> A photoelectric smoke detector uses a beam of light and the fog can break the beam and trigger the alarm.


Interested in this, any additional information available? Links or such? The local school where I have my charity haunt uses ionization detectors and the local Fire Department says the fog will set them off...

RandalB


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## 13th Ghost The Jackal

mhmmmm I agree with everyone, but.........


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## Hauntiholik

13th Ghost The Jackal said:


> mhmmmm I agree with everyone, but.........


Did your haunt get shut down? What sort of problem did you run into?


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## Hauntiholik

RandalB said:


> Interested in this, any additional information available? Links or such? The local school where I have my charity haunt uses ionization detectors and the local Fire Department says the fog will set them off...
> 
> RandalB


If your Fire Department says no then *don't do it*. Go with what they say.






http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100718115051AAivY7X


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## RoxyBlue

They should have read the "can you get shut down - heck, yeah" thread here.


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## kprimm

Send those city bastards some doughnuts and tell them to go after the criminals and stop bothering good people.


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## ouizul1

kprimm said:


> Send those city bastards some doughnuts and tell them to go after the criminals and stop bothering good people.


Yup. That pretty much covers it.

...you called 'em doughnut eaters...Awesome. ...that really tickled me... :laugheton:


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## Sblanck

*City enforces permits for home haunts*

McKinney Fire Department Cracks Down on Haunted Houses - Homeowners must obtain permit to turn residence into haunted house

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Mc...-Cracks-Down-on-Haunted-Houses-132027938.html

I think this is good. When I did a big yard haunt I would invite the Fire Marshall to come by and tell me what I needed.


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## dudeamis

My question is, 30 days? How slow is that bureaucracy?


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## Darkmaster

Hauntiholik said:


> It depends on what kind of smoke detector you have (ionization or photoelectric).
> 
> A ionization smoke detector testes the chemical makeup of the air and the fog should not trigger it.
> 
> A photoelectric smoke detector uses a beam of light and the fog can break the beam and trigger the alarm.


I use the standard type detectors and where the fog was, I had to remove the battery. Which defeated the purpose of it. Eventually, I quit using the fog and put the battery back in. Safety was more important than a fog effect.


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## Darkmaster

Buzz said:


> Hmmmmm, can fog machines set them off?


YES they will!


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## post-mortem

This is why we moved from an indoor to a haunted trail. We used a hundred year old lodge that did not have sprinklers and the fire chief let us do it anyways as long as we had fire retardant liquid on everything. But we had to move the next year so we went outdoors. I think we just have to have liability ins. this year and post no smoking signs etc. I always train my people and have whistles and team captns in each section. Walkie talkies and flashlights are a must.I know I gota have security but not sure about anything else.:jol:


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## Scarypumpkinpie

We also do an outdoor trail. In our area, we are not even required to have insurance, just posted signs to make visitors aware that they will be entering at their own risk and we are not responsible for accidents or injuries blah blah blah....but I think this year we are going to get liability insurance just to be on the safe side.


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## BioHazardCustoms

Just so you know, Jess, Those signs mean nothing if someone tries to sue you. Insurance is a MUST have in this industry. I work with a couple of different haunts, and we have had to go to court numerous times. First question the judge always asks is "Did your event have insurance?"


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## YoSeminoleSam

it is a shame, but in todays litigous society we must remember to CYA in every little aspect of our haunt. even with insurance, an operator can still be held negligible.


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## fontgeek

dudeamis said:


> My question is, 30 days? How slow is that bureaucracy?


Consider the fact that most of these things need to pass city council, fire department, and police department acceptance before they are approved. That helps protect YOU from some idiot who would just rubber stamp everything that comes before them. When people get injured and sue, they tend to sue EVERYONE, the haunt, the or company that runs it, the individuals involved, the property owners, the city, the police and FD, etc. So cities doing thorough inspections before they approve anything are actually saving you money and court time. Most city councils are made up of volunteers that only meet once or twice a month, and that they actually have more to do than just your haunt.
It's easy to say that none of the insurance or inspections are necessary, until it's you or someone you know that gets injured or killed, they you'll want to sue those same lawmakers and enforcers for their lack of diligence.

And if you are breaking the laws, especially if you are doing it knowingly, you are not "Good People".

CYA and BE SAFE


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## hazeldazel

My mom worked her whole life at insurance companies doing liability, worker's comp, etc. My stepfather was the CEO of a couple big insurance companies, and is currently on the board of a couple. The signs you have up... do squat. You'll still lose your house when you get sued (if your homeowner's doesn't cover you). Keep in mind that juries see injured people (especially injured kids) and think "oh the poor kid with all doctor's bills, well if the other people lose the insurance company that pays." And so the injured person will win. Always. So these cases NEVER make it to trial. NEVER. So you can put a sign up, little Johnny Spazo does something stupid, and gets hurt. His mommy sues you, your insurance settles out of court, you lose your coverage because you had a big claim and none of it was your fault. 

So be careful and be smart. CYA.


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## RoxyBlue

Having umbrella liability insurance to cover what your homeowner's insurance doesn't is not a bad idea if you're going to do a haunt on your property. We just have a front yard display, but I've considered picking up the additional insurance anyway just in case.


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## Scarypumpkinpie

I am struggling to find anyone that will insure our haunted woods. Every place that I have called locally just says they do not insure those types of businesses. Does anyone know of someplace I can buy it online? A friend of mine said they thought they knew of a place but the cost is 600.00 for just the month of October only. Is it normally that high? Just seems like a lot to insure a business for one month. But I guess considering this type of business, it probably does run pretty high.


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## Scarypumpkinpie

Ok, so the haunt is on the property that my father and I own. However, he actually does have a residence there, I do not. So, he can have coverage under his home owners insurance? Reading what everyone has written, combined with not being able to find an agency that will insure our business, has made me very worried about even having another season. Even if we have insurance, who's to say some idiot might not sue the hell out of us and take everything we own anyway? Maybe this is just not worth pursuing any further. I absolutely love doing the haunted woods, but I don't have the money to hire an attorney for this business. It doesn't even generate enough money for that expense, not yet anyway. With it being in the woods, I feel certain someone will at least fall down at some point in time, or some dummy run into a tree or something, even if they are not seriously injured. I don't want to loose our property because some jerk twisted his ankle trying to kick at a prop or tripped over something or whatever. Should I just forget about doing this all together? I planned on having insurance before we opened this year anyway. But, now I am thinking if someone can still sue us and take our property, even with having insurance, what is the point?


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## remylass

jessjaja said:


> I am struggling to find anyone that will insure our haunted woods. Every place that I have called locally just says they do not insure those types of businesses. Does anyone know of someplace I can buy it online? A friend of mine said they thought they knew of a place but the cost is 600.00 for just the month of October only. Is it normally that high? Just seems like a lot to insure a business for one month. But I guess considering this type of business, it probably does run pretty high.


One of the people that sponsored Transworld was a man named Donat. He was from Westland insurance. They had all these ads about no haunt too big or too small for their insurance. I didn't go talk to them, however, so that is all the information I have.


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## Darkmaster

*Who you gonna call!*

Hi, I've been using Ken Donat's insurance company. He has bought the haunted house business end of it and speciallizes in it. You can find him at Donat Insurance Services, LLC., www.DonatInsurance.com or [email protected].

I've had no problem with him coming up with coverage and everything was done over the web or phone.

I've been a firm believer in having too much insurance. Remember, it only takes ONE person to get injured.

My wife just said "What if they have a heart attack and no insurance?" I'll have to call Ken and see what he says.

*CYA all the time!!!*


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## craigfly06

RandalB said:


> Interested in this, any additional information available? Links or such? The local school where I have my charity haunt uses ionization detectors and the local Fire Department says the fog will set them off...
> 
> RandalB


I know this is not about smoke detectors, but my girls had a dance at their HS with fog, set off the fire alarms, What a mess that was!:googly:


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## DynomiteDaniel

I do a home haunt and am kind of lucky because the town I live in says I am actually covered under their policy because they have turned my haunt into an event for the week. With that said, we do not charge and my insurance guy said because there is no charge, we are covered under the homeowners anyway. the catch with that is we do not charge. Donations are always welcome! I think you have to buy commercial insurance of you charge even a dollar.


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## Vlad

DD, You might want to ask your insurance agent again and specifically tell him that you take donations, as in a donations box maybe???  I remember speaking with an insurance agent haunter years ago who said that donations were considered "implied admission fees", and that they would also void your homeowners insurance, maybe even supersede the towns coverage of your haunt as well.


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## DynomiteDaniel

I am going to check on that.....We historically forward all donations to the local food bank in town so I am curios if that would still put us in a bind?


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## Darkmaster

Vlad said:


> DD, You might want to ask your insurance agent again and specifically tell him that you take donations, as in a donations box maybe??? I remember speaking with an insurance agent haunter years ago who said that donations were considered "implied admission fees", and that they would also void your homeowners insurance, maybe even supersede the towns coverage of your haunt as well.


This is true according to our home owner insurance. This is why we carry an additional insurance policy for the haunt.


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## Troll Wizard

I think what everyone is saying here is that it is better to be safe than sorry. Every state has different laws in how they define what a haunted house is. If you just let people walk by and see without them going into a building or property then you are probably safe. 

But if you allow people to come onto your yard or you have a walk through then you really should check out how your local city says classifies your haunt. It really doesn't matter if you charge or not, heck even asking for cans of food to give to charities is a form of admission. 

So I guess I would say, that it's better for all of us to check with our own insurance company and local city just so we don't get our you know what in a sling! :jol:


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## Saturday8pm

As far as haunts go, we live in great times! Every age has its golden moment. NO WAY did this happen in The '70s! There may have been a few here'n'there for charity, but I don't recall.

Yup, good points raised. Best to be safe than sorry and as always, use common sense ... 'cuz I sure don't have taste, baby!


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## Darcula

what if, to offset the extra insurance fees and whatnot in october, your haunt group holds several charity drives and bake sales? then you won't have to give up on your haunt dream, because you'll have made the money for most of the fees already. 

i believe that even if a haunt is really small or for a charity, you should run it like a business. businesses need plans, plans and more plans, and since we already take all year before and after the haunting season to prepare our props for our haunts, why not take all year to prepare the legal stuff, not just research to make sure our ducks are in a row the week or so before we open.

the insurance thing scares the bajebzus outta my hubbs. it's alot of money here. but i guess anything in this economy is alot. our insurance agent quoted us something horrible about 3 years ago when we first got our house, and it was so horrible i blocked it out of my memory.....but our agent acted like it was a hassle, and we shouldn't even attempt it. 
later i find out that he has no knowledge the company's policies on haunt insurance and didn't want to look it up for laziness.
dar.
<3


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## EverydayisHalloween311

I live in a small town of like 1,000 people and as far as i know we have no codes. Hell we only have one cop! haha.. I do a walk through and i post a sign "enter at your own risk blah blah blah"... If you get hurt. Too damn bad i'm not paying for nuttin! Thats what the signs there for lol


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## BioHazardCustoms

Frank, you can go to city hall and the fire department and request copies of the building and fire code. They have to give it to you because it is a matter of public record. You might have to pay a small fee for the cost of ink and paper. But, if it helps keep you from getting shut down, a couple of bucks is worth it, in my opinion. 

That reminds me, I need to do that Wednesday...


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## Hauntiholik

EverydayisHalloween311 said:


> I live in a small town of like 1,000 people and as far as i know we have no codes. Hell we only have one cop! haha.. I do a walk through and i post a sign "enter at your own risk blah blah blah"... If you get hurt. Too damn bad i'm not paying for nuttin! Thats what the signs there for lol


http://www.state.il.us/agency/idol/faq/faq-haunted-house.htm

http://www.sfm.illinois.gov/documents/Special%20Amusement%20Buildings.pdf


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## BioHazardCustoms

Hauntiholik said:


> http://www.state.il.us/agency/idol/faq/faq-haunted-house.htm
> 
> http://www.sfm.illinois.gov/documents/Special%20Amusement%20Buildings.pdf


Haunti, if you can find stuff like that for the state of Alabama, I'd be greatly appreciative. I've searched all week for it.


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## Lord Homicide

What's the ballpark guess for a state fine if you are caught without a permit by a policing agency?


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## Hauntiholik

BioHazardCustoms said:


> Haunti, if you can find stuff like that for the state of Alabama, I'd be greatly appreciative. I've searched all week for it.


I found links for Mobile. Does that help?


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## BioHazardCustoms

Nah, other end of the state. They have strict local ordinances in place. I found those links too. It's cool though. I have to go get my license renewed in the morning, and it's in the same building as the building inspectors office, so I'll just walk over while I am there. I'd prefer a hard copy anyway.


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## Cole&Jacksdad

Code enforcement left a business card on my door today and a note that said please call. I'm sure if I had a violation I would have got a ticket or warning. I am hoping that they want to know if I charge or not. I don't charge so I hope there will be no issues. At the first of the month when I started to build, my neighbor was trying to preach to me. I finally made it clear I didn't want to hear it! I wonder if she called the city on me?


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## Cole&Jacksdad

Good news! I'm cleared with code enforcement. Someone thought I was building a storage shed in my driveway. So the haunt will go on!


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## Hauntiholik

Please stay on topic. Thanks!


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## ramath

ive been doing my haunt since 2004 and its only been the last 4 years ive ever had any one from the city stop by the first time it was code enforcement, I gave them a guide walk through, they where more interested in how I made the props than any thing else,, the only code thing they asked was weather I charged ,, told them no and they said I was good to go ,, if I charged I needed a permit.

the second year on Halloween night we had the police stop by about a hour before opening,, they asked if wee could open early because there was a huge line out front and it was out in the street lol.. we now open a 90 mins earlier on Halloween. needless to say we opened -) we cant see the entrance to the haunt from the house so had no idea the line was that large.. the officer did come back later that night ,, but brought there familys to go through the haunt,,, there regular visitors as well as other city employees.

the 3rd year we actually had the fire Marshal stop by.. when he say the fire extinguishers, no smoking signs, and the fact that we had a 100 foot water hose hocked up that could reach to the entrance or the exit depending on which way you went.. he grumbled and left..

the attitude of the fire maeshal gave me such a bad taste in my mouth that after Halloween was over I contacted my attorney and told him about it, found out some interesting info for my city. inless its a business the Fire marshal cant just walk on to your property and demand to go through things. private property as in my case they have to have a court order, aka a search warrant in order to even come on the property. they can however close down any thing they can see from the city street that they feel is a fire risk, though they have to put it in writing and you have 15 to 30 days to comply. instantly if they think its a big enough risk. my attorney said the best thing to do was exactly what I had done ,, give them a quick walk through show them the safety guards and escort them off the property..

last year we had no official visit from the city but did have members of the city council, the police and code enforcement bring there family by to go through the haunt..

Basic rule of thumb for home haunting:
Fire extinguishers
water hoses if available
no smoking signs
3 to 4 foot wide hallways
fire retardant on those things that need it
and if you can afford it.. low voltage lighting


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## DreadKnightswife

We live outside city limits so no city codes, but I am deffinately going to look into the county codes! And Hubby and I have been considering insurance at least for the 2 nights we are open. Thanks for the reminders, links, and info!


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## kentuckyspecialfxdotcom

*Best way to play safe*

In regards to home haunts the best thing to do is call your local fire department and ask to speak to the local marshal / chief / LT and invite them over before you open and tell them you want to know how to make your haunt as safe possible.
You say that to them and nine times out of ten you'll have a friend.
It shows you care, you want to learn from someone who knows with experience and just make them feel wanted there.
I know, I worked in a fire dept for several years and did pre opening walk throughs, inspections, investigations.
But still being on the other side now after all these years of building pro haunt sets I have yet to run into a fire marshal that didn't give us a hard time unless we deserved it over looking something on the pro level and with some of the charity house haunts that had high flow rates.
Home haunts are hard to shut down or fine for that matter unless your charging money.
Professional haunts are fair game due to the traffic flow and they're making money.
To have a home haunt walk through and get shut down you would have to something really really ludicrous to get get nabbed.
One thing I do remember, in the extremely ritzy neighborhoods of million dollar homes where they have retarded things neighborhood zone codes, like lawn codes / appearance codes that are enforced by the neighborhood home assembly mafia then those home haunts could be shut down for no reason what so ever.
I had that experience one time for a charity haunt we helped.


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## Jacket

Why no black plastic hauntiholic? I've used 6mil the last 2 years for most walls and it worked well? This is builders grade and I'm sure sure is flame resistant. Anybody know?


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## The Witch of Lomax Street

So who would you have to contact in the city goverment/city hall to discuss this info with them? I am in Tennessee, just need a place to start and I can go from there.


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## BioHazardCustoms

The Witch of Lomax Street said:


> So who would you have to contact in the city goverment/city hall to discuss this info with them? I am in Tennessee, just need a place to start and I can go from there.


What I do is contact the local city council and ask them for updated building and fire code pertaining to seasonal events. This helps me stay within the realm of legality, and covers me in the case of any injury.


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## mikeythemars

Hauntiholik said:


> Most Christmas displays do not involve a walk through with walls and rooms.


Nor do most yard haunts, since the _overwhelming_ majority employ a graveyard theme, which inherently don't employ walk through walls and rooms.

Yes, there are a handful of yard haunters who start wanting to go in the haunted house direction - and the same scenario then plays out: they go through a brief phase of starting to put up temporary "walls," then quickly realize adding that infrastructure is a big pain and makes their existing haunt look crappy. They then inevitably end up either trashing their haunted mansion fantasy or -- determined do it -- change their whole Halloween theme and move everything indoors.

In closing, Colorado may well be the place where we see the first litigation resulting from public safety officials overreaching, when they attempt to micromanage how private property owners decorate for the holidays.


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## fontgeek

The Witch of Lomax Street said:


> So who would you have to contact in the city goverment/city hall to discuss this info with them? I am in Tennessee, just need a place to start and I can go from there.


I'd talk to both your city hall/administration, and the fire department.*While the requirements may be interrelated, each side/group tends to leave out small stuff that may not fall into their jurisdiction. I'd also talk to your insurance company to see what, if any, additional coverage may be needed, and or if they have approval requirements of their own.
CYA, and don't take anything for granted.


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## fontgeek

CYA. People are lawsuit crazy, even when the real problem or incident was caused by them.


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## Frozen and Haunted

I hadn't even considered the city shutting us down, we just do our front yard. Give out candy, scare some kids. I don't think anything we put out should cause any problems but it's good to know. Anyone actually been shut down?


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## GrimleeFeindish

Hi all. I was reading through this and this year I was contemplating jumping from a yard haunt/display to a garage haunt. But I am seriously considering just nixing that idea and making my yard/driveway bigger and more packed with stuff rather than trying the garage thing. I think it would be fun to have the inside haunt rather than just a yard display, but like another poster mentioned, after the initial shock of what it takes to build a safe garage haunt most people figure its not worth it. I really like getting some scares in and its hard if kids know that you are standing up near the front door. Last year I had a witch scene in the front part of my garage and as the TOTs walked by to go up to the front door I came out of the garage where I was hidden. It was a great scare, and definitely alot of fun. THen I thought, well if that was fun, it sure would be alot of fun to build a haunted house in the garage. Ive been going back and forth and the liability factor kind of bums me out. I know alot of people do it, but still it only takes one kid getting hurt. Just some thoughts, I think that with the big driveway I have I might want to utilize that and make a cool trail that comes up to the house and maybe make the garage like a theatrical scene (like a witch shack or Vampires lair) and that would get my geek jones to make that kind of thing out but still not open myself up to problems. I could have actors in the driveway behind a masoleum, witches shack and fake tree. Just thinkin and drinkin. THanks All my awesome Haunt fiends.


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## Longmont Haunt

FWIW, I recently moved out of Fort Collins, which I see is the genesis of this thread, and the city government is super easy to deal with. I would suspect that the issues were -- as indicated -- the result of frats pushing the envelope too much. Otherwise, the city never seemed to sweat much, generally speaking.

Now for a few caveats: (1) I didn't have a walk-through and didn't charge anything; and (2) I can't caution everyone enough to both check your local laws and have adequate insurance (which you've verified is adequate). Both are critical, as the rules change once you invite folks onto your property (as opposed to simply owning the home), especially if you're charging anything.

Cheers!


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## Geislermansion

Okay so from what I've read, everyone says as long as you don't charge you won't have as much problem. But no one's explaining why ......why does charging for admission get you into trouble exactly?


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## RoxyBlue

^I believe the answer is that charging could put you into the category of a professional haunt, which means it's a business, which means the rules of business in terms of licensing and insurance apply.


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## mikeythemars

Fortunately, the authorities in my area do not hassle me or the others in town who do front yard cemetery themed haunts. In fact, every year the local police inevitably drive up to my place while I am setting up and tell me how much they and their families enjoy visiting my yard haunt.


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## Hallowed31

That's in part, why I decorate the whole neighborhood. Nobody would ever just stumble upon the haunt that may cause concern to some overzealous parties. You have to first notice that something is a little "off" in your local park or schoolyard, then follow clues, then pass an exam, then complete wave upon wave of challenges just to get in. On top of that, it's only possible for 36 people total to enter, most two at a time. Never mind the decoy haunt, and there is a safety warning to that before going in. 
I'm common sense responsible though, just don't have time for "all the rules". Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. Your mileage may vary.


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## DEMON DEAN

Its a shame how the world is changing. Today most people are sue happy which spoils it for others. Back in the day things seemed to be much simpler and people seemed to be happier. We even as kids went door to door for trick or treating without worrying about getting poisons or mugged. As for setting up a fun haunted house it was all done for free just for fun. Now you have to get permits (more money to put out) guide lines to go by or you will get fines (more money) etc. There intent is to protect the people or is it just to make more money. Its amazing how back in the day we didn't need any of this!


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