# Technologically Overwhelmed



## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

Hello all, I am new to the forum but have been lurking for quite some time. I'll get right to the point, since this is probably going to be a long first post.

The project I am undertaking for this year is by far going to be the most complex I have attempted.

Quick background of the prop as the design still only exists in a few functioning brain cells. The prop is going to be a guardian. Probably of a crypt or casket scene. It is also going to be fairly portable since it won't be set up at my house, but transported to another location. This means I would like to keep it electric because lugging an air compressor isn't going to be practicable. Also, the shell will be fiberglass covered in a latex skin.

OPERATION:
After the PIR sensor trips, the guardian slowly rises from a resting position through a scissor assembly, animates head (eyes, mouth, 3-axis head, etc. TBD), moans and growns through internal / external speakers (exact mouth sync not necessary), then slowly returns to resting position.

I'm guessing 3-4 servos in the head (depending on what gets animated), a gear motor driving the scissor lift (if I can reverse the polarity to go both directions), and a sound controller to drive the speakers.

*QUESTION:
Finally to my question. I'm wondering what is the best way to control everything? I would it be stand-alone and not have to be hooked up to a laptop. I'm sure I would have to have probably two controllers, but which ones would work best?*

I've read through about every thread and link posted here related to servo controllers and I have succeeded to do is confuse myself more. Posts going back 3-4 years address outdated technology.

Would the EFX-TEK suite the build? Arduino? PICAXE?
I don't think the PicoBoo will suite my needs, but I could be wrong. 
I'm trying to research each one, but only confusing myself more. :googly:

Price is a consideration, but not an elimination. I'm going to be investing a good bit on the build, so I want it to be done right. Would like to keep the total price for the electronics under $200 (including servos), but I already have the gear motors for the scissor lift if they will work.

I apologize for the long post. 
Any help or insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated.


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## CoolDJTV (Jun 28, 2011)

Try Boo Box 4 or 8 because they have servo control and relay control too. it runs about $300 though so it's probably not an option.
My second guess would be to use VSA or bookshire software, but I am no expert with that.
That is my 2 cents


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks for the quick response. 
I hadn't researched the Boo Box, so I will. I don't think it was mentioned in other posts here, so I was unaware of its existence.

I'm shooting for total cost of the build to be around the $500 range. If one expensive controller takes the place of two cheaper ones (plus novice aggravation) then so be it.

If I understand correctly from searches, VSA requires the prop to be linked to a laptop. I'm trying to avoid that if possible. If all the newer technology requires a hard line, then that might be what I need to do.

Thanks again for you suggestions.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

Not sure what happened up there^^^. Must have had something highlighted.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

Well, I did some research into the BooBox, and it doesn't look like FRIGHTIDEAS offers the older ones anymore. Although I did watch the support videos on them.

This looks like the closest thing they offer now. But unfortunately, the box requires their $200 controller to program it. That kinda is going to put it out of my price range that I wanted to spend. Too bad, it looked pretty cool.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks again.


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## scream1973 (Dec 23, 2007)

Servos and Relays to kick off the Gear motors could definately be driven I would think by some Picaxe controller (18M i am thinking). Now as for ease of programming that is a lil different story


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks. 
I've only started reading the basics of the Picaxe controller, but have spent the majority of the afternoon reading about the EFX stuff (prop-1, -2, -sx, ez-8) trying to get a handle on what exactly is needed and how everything links together.

I'll be looking at the Picaxe and arduino stuff tonight. 

This will be the first prop I've attempted that is going to require the use of a controller(s) and I'm still at the stage of trying to figure out what will work best. I haven't even gotten into the programming side of it yet. That's going to be a challenge no matter which controller I purchase. I'm still trying to keep this as a stand alone prop if I can. 

:cheers


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

Picaxe programming is essentially identical to the EFX product. The difference is with Picaxe you have to buy/build the driver stuff (e.g. 3rd part relay boards) yourself whereas with the EFX you can buy ready made boards from EFX with their support.

I find the Picaxe a more adaptable scenario but for a quick solution EFX is good.

Arduino is even more adaptable but a different language but LOTS of support hardware and forums.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

It looks like there is real good support for both the Picaxe as well as the EFX products. Since this is going to be my first controller project, I've been trying to read as much as I can. Unfortunately, I get lost when it comes to the programming aspect. It doesn't help that this is still in the concept stage and I don't know exactly what I need the controller(s) to do.

I've been reading through all the EFX manuals and am leaning towards the EZ-8 because of the push-button programming. Add the audio controller and that should cover everything I think I need to do. Down the road maybe I can bribe someone in the ATL area to actually program the thing for me. 

Everyone's insight has been extremely helpful.
Thanks again.


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

When programming a prop even using a key banger it is sensible to draw a timeline of what you want to happen and when.

Get some graph paper, decide on the length of the routine and draw a horizontal index line of a decent scale e.g. 1 box per second.

Then draw other horizontal lines to represent each discreet element e.g. 1 line for prop raise, 1 line for head movement, 1 line for lights, 1 for sound etc.

Then mark the points at which each one starts and ends and draw this period in a different thicker colour.

This helps you understand the overall sequence of events and makes programming an awful lot easier.


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## Zombie-F (Apr 12, 2004)

If you have your heart set on a scissor lift mechanism, you may need to use pneumatics. The lift itself will have quite a bit of weight to it + the weight of the figure and all the stuff inside of it could make finding a motor to do this very expensive.

In terms of control, everything you're outlining could be done with a Prop-1, Picaxe or Arduino. Prop-1 is nice because you won't need to do much in terms of circuit design since it's an out-of-the-box ready-ready-to-go product.

A Picaxe would be my choice, but it's a little more involved to build if you don't stick with the 18M2 and it's prototype board.


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## Dead Things (Apr 4, 2009)

The Picaxe has worked well for me, they are inexpensive and with the correct project board, you can switch 12VDC items (solenoids, etc). 
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8330
The big thing with it is programming. If you send me a PM I can send a Word doc I made up from a series of emails between Steve O and myself in which he explains programming. The Picaxe forum has been very helpful as well.


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## Zombie-F (Apr 12, 2004)

I can also be of help with the programming of the Picaxes. I personally find them easier to work with than the EFX-TEK boards.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

fritz42_male said:


> When programming a prop even using a key banger it is sensible to draw a timeline of what you want to happen and when.


Thanks, that's a really good idea. As of right now, everything is still conceptual and I wasn't sure exactly what I was going to do. The graph may help in figuring out what I am going to need the controller to do.



Zombie-F said:


> If you have your heart set on a scissor lift mechanism, you may need to use pneumatics.


I'm not set on a scissor lift, it's just that's the only thing I have built in the past. Trying to keep weight down as much as possible. The plan right now is an articulated aluminum frame supporting a fiberglass shell. I've got a couple spare Dayton motors so I was going to try to incorporate one(or both) into the lifting mechanism. Going to be a smaller figure, so maybe a two foot throw? I don't know yet. Pretty much from a sitting to a standing position. Not going from prone.



Zombie-F said:


> In terms of control, everything you're outlining could be done with a Prop-1, Picaxe or Arduino. Prop-1 is nice because you won't need to do much in terms of circuit design since it's an out-of-the-box ready-ready-to-go product..


That's my problem in a nutshell!
Like I stated, this will be my first "controlled" prop and trying to read about each individual option gets overwhelming. It looks like everything will work, but what is best for a beginner programmer? All the boards seem similar, but then I get lost when it gets to the programming parts.

Give me a wiring diagram and I could physically build and solder a board without batting an eye. Wiring the electronics is the easy part for me.
Writing the code to make it work..... well... no experience.



Dead Things said:


> The big thing with it is programming. If you send me a PM I can send a Word doc I made up from a series of emails between Steve O and myself in which he explains programming. The Picaxe forum has been very helpful as well.


That may be extremely helpful. Consider a PM on its way.

Thanks again for all your inputs. I guess I need to review the Picaxe starter kits again.


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## Zombie-F (Apr 12, 2004)

For an absolute beginner who wants to actually learn about programming and not just using a controller that records a series of button presses, I'd stick with the Prop-1 from EFX-TEK. It's a great starting off point that you can learn from and move on to more complicated controllers (if you are so interested). You can find tons of help on using it both here as well as help from EFX-TEK's forums. I've even seen them write code for users in the past when they were having extreme difficulty.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

The programming is definitely going to be the difficult part for me. Thankfully it looks like that there are plenty of people out there willing to help.

If I have to learn programming anyways, would it be more beneficial to get a prop-2 with more I/O lines? Would the code be more difficult to figure out?
I figure I could run individual power to everything, and just use the controller to supply signal voltage. 

Still conceptional and in the planning stages...
4-6 servos
1-2 dayton gear motors
1 audio track not synced (moans, grunts, etc)
Few lights (maybe LED, maybe spot)

I may need to split the lights and audio onto a separate controller to make life easier. Or would that make it worse?

The more I visualize it, the more complex it gets.


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## Zombie-F (Apr 12, 2004)

The prop-2 programming is quite a bit different. The language for both is derived from BASIC programming, but the prop-2 (which is written in PBASIC2) has a lot more commands and in some ways can be easier to work with. Don't underestimate the power of the Parallax help files... they are very helpful in programming as they give great examples.

A prop-1 will not be adequate for all of what you're thinking of unless you offload the servo control to an external servo control board (pololu's micro maestro would be good). I would recommend that anyhow. The Prop-1 also has a tiny memory footprint so you couldn't have a particularly long program.

A Prop-2 would probably be your best bet for this, though I would still consider offloading the servo control to an external board.


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## Tokwik (Oct 12, 2011)

The more I research, the more I learn how much there is to learn. 

To first answer the question about length of program, I'm thinking somewhere around the 30 sec mark. Not sure, but I don't plan on it being too long in duration.

Secondly, I ordered a Picaxe 18M kit and am probably going to order a prop-1 or 2 kit also.
I figure I'll use whichever one I can figure out first. Both controllers seem to have excellent support and recommendations. After making this jump into "controlled" props, I foresee needing more controllers in the future so it's not like they are going to go to waste.

This is by far going to be the most complex prop I have ever attempted. Everyone's insight is greatly appreciated.


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