# Making prosthetic teeth



## JustJimAZ

I have read that nail acrylic is chemically identical to dental acrylic. 
In any case, neither alginate nor dental acrylic are hard to buy, so how hard would it be to make a mold of your teeth and use that to create several different sets of dentures?

Would it cost more than, say, a couple hundred dollars a pair?

Any tutorials covering this that I have missed?


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## Mr_Chicken

Talk to member Mortissanguine. He led a make and take for us at CalHaunts Norcal a couple of years ago. We made custom dentures for $40 each... granted, it was less because we were sharing some of the materials, but you can certainly get at least a basic set up going for $50. He had some neat tricks to cut down on materials and extra steps. Someone took video of that workshop, as I recall...maybe they can upload it?

These are the ones I made there: http://chickenhaunt.blogspot.com/2010/04/calhaunts-norcal-1.html


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## The-Haunter

I would also be interested in this


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## JustJimAZ

Mr_Chicken said:


> Talk to member Mortissanguine. He led a make and take for us at CalHaunts Norcal a couple of years ago. We made custom dentures for $40 each... granted, it was less because we were sharing some of the materials, but you can certainly get at least a basic set up going for $50. He had some neat tricks to cut down on materials and extra steps. Someone took video of that workshop, as I recall...maybe they can upload it?
> 
> These are the ones I made there: http://chickenhaunt.blogspot.com/2010/04/calhaunts-norcal-1.html


Thanks Mr. Chicken! I PM'd Mortissanguine. The pic on your blog is just what I was thinking! I would like to make some in stone grey to go with my gargoyle costume too.


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## Allen H

They are not to hard to hard to make, I will do a youtube wed video on them. eventually. materials and all you can get dentures made for about $60 a pair, the more you make the less they cost. 
Monster makers has a great tooth kit with decent instructions.
http://www.monstermakers.com/category/fang-and-theatrical-teeth-making-kits.html
If I have the stuff on hand (odds are good I do) I will make a tutorial in the next few weeks.


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## debbie5

Yay! Allen is back!!


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## Mortissanguine

Okay, so obviously the PM failed...I apologize... DASH2000 on youtube messaged me via youtube and asked I post some help on fangs...so...here you go. I will try and figure out why I missed any of my PMs. Obviously, you can hit me up on the contact for www.nightmareplaygrounds.com

Allen is right, Monster Makers has a pretty good video on what basics you will need to know before getting in to the whole process. I was contacted a while back by a fellow from the midwest who found me through Mr. Chicken...so apparently he is the guy people go to. Kudos, sir. I will post the questions and responses he has for me.

He asked if I had an instructional video up...maybe that is something I can get talked in to...but the way my life and time is right now will have to be a little later. I have devious machinations in store for some serious play time...but right now I am getting my shop and shed together so I can bring the laughter back in to slaughter.
*
THE CONVERSATION:*
ME: I haven't done an instructional video of fang making, I did a make and take class (people paid for cost of materials, I provided instruction) out here for the California for the CalHaunts Norcal group, but haven't put much up on video.

As far as resources go, everything I have learned I have kind of taught myself with videos I bought or with trial and error.

1) One of the videos I have been most happy with is the one offered from www.MonsterMakers.com. I believe there are two videos they have, and they may offer them together. I think they are pretty cool in that not only do they show how to do special effects fangs they also teach gum building and full prosthetic builds.

I went on their site briefly and couldn't find the video sold by itself, you may want to message them and ask if it is for sale individually. I bought mine so long ago, the first video was on VHS, but have since bought the combo 1 and 2 on DVD, because sometimes it is really nice as a reference for people to watch to understand the process I will be putting them through.

2) I also HIGHLY suggest Todd Debreceni's book 




It has EVERYTHING a beginning make up effects person (and even intermediate and advanced) would want to reference for the basic, intermediate and advanced skills. This is basically the de facto sfx text book that I have seen referenced on some really great sites.

3) Also, I highly suggest http://www.theeffectslab.com/ It is a place where industry greats actually take the time to show us their work and help us learn. I am VERY careful about not flooding the lists or asking questions without researching exhaustively because almost everything has been addressed before. ((* NOTE: These people are PROFESSIONALS and definitely deserve respect and praise.*))

I can offer some tips and techniques if you are interested...but honestly the monster makers video, the book and this website are pretty good resources. I also found this http://www.fxwarehouse.info/fangs.shtml that may be of use to you.

_________
Him: I was aware of the MonsterMakers site. I have almost bought the video you mentioned a couple of times. However, I wasn't real sure if it was any good or not. With your recommendation I'll probably see if I can give it a go. I will also check out some of the other resources you mentioned. I have found a couple of video clips on YouTube from your CalHaunts class. Obviously the videos didn't reflect real details of your class - but from what I saw it seems you use some different techniques. I don't know what you were doing, but in one of the video snippets you had what appeared to be the dental molds and were putting them in small pans with a liquid of some sort. That looked like a little different step than what I have seen online.

Maybe that is in the videos you referenced and I'll see what that is all about.

I found your site via a Google search for special effects acrylic teeth (I think that was the search criteria). I went to the "images" and found an images of a nice looking set of fangs. It was linked to this blog www.chickenhaunt.blogspot.com. It appears this
person took your class. I got your name from that blog - then did a google search on your name and it led me to the nightmareplaygrounds.com site.

It sounds as though you have taken a passion for a specific thing - and been able to turn it into a business opportunity. I'm very interested in the special effects hobby. I'm older than you - but it's a hobby I'd still like to pursue. I think my kids would enjoy it as well.

___________________________

ME: Oh, yeah. I can see how you would be confused.

It wasn't really a different step, just a different method. It was a day long make and take, so I had to come up with (I thought) clever ways to speed up the process. I only had a limited time to 1) teach safety 2) get working models 3) teach the process and 4) trouble shoot all the different designs they were trying for a group well over 20 of completely inexperienced dental prosthetic students.

When doing alginate molds of someone's mouth you have a limited time to make the positive cast before the alginate begins to dry out and become malformed (alginate is water based). So, I tried some VPS putty (( http://www.ismiledp.com/smile-vps-putty.html (two part putty that acts like alginate but is a binary compound that activates when kneaded together)). I got the VPS from iSmile dental http://www.ismiledp.com/ The guy who runs this site is AWESOME with his customer service. Many dental product companies cite some (absolutely false) homeland security thing that says they can't sell to an unlicensed dentist. The truth is they just don't want to deal with the general public and their reps want to deal with people who provide constant orders, not like a hobbyist.

Nothing this guy will sell you even comes close to stuff they would be interested in...there are some things that do fall under federal regulations...but not a tooth mold putty. Sadly, last time I checked he does not sell dental burrs (the things dentists use to shape teeth).

Using VPS putty is more costly but the benefit is that you have a mold that doesn't dry out and you can make multiple positive casts from it if you accidentally get bubbles. I also went with a two part resin I got from Tap plastics to pour the positives into the VPS. The benefit, again, was the very quick set up time (about 20 minutes for full workable cure) instead of a 8 hour plaster cure time and then the airing out time that lets more of the water leave the plaster, allowing it to harden further.

The problem with the two part plastic is that it is fairly runny and can run out of the mold, so plaster is nice because you can use a vibrating device (I use a small "adult orietned" vibrator that is ONLY used for this purpose) to make the plaster flow in to the mold of the teeth, this helps prevent bubbles (our enemy).

What you saw me using to pour the positive casts in were flan forms (silicone, because nothing but silicone sticks to silicone. I love silicone). They were cheaper in bulk than buying individual base forms that you see with the Monster Makers kits.

So, in essence, now that I have been kind of technical and hopefully not to far above your understanding of the process, I replaced two processes that either take a while or don't let you re-pour the positive cast with ones that I hoped worked better.

What I found:

The two part plastics are really nice, in addition to it being a fast set time they are slightly flexible so when you are popping off a full gum line and tooth line mold they are a little less likely to break off inside of what you have built.

the VPS putty is really expensive for beginners to use. Unless you are versed in taking impressions it can be difficult. I typically never have a problem, but on some folks we were doing 2 to 4 impressions. It adds up. The alginate is also nice because it can actually fill in some of the gaps if the person you are getting impressions from accidentally drags their teeth slightly forward or back when placing the tray up over their teeth.

I should have used the alginate (cheaper) and the two part plastics, it would have been an easier day.

OH....very important. See if you can buy the cinnamon flavored/scented alginate or something like it from an dental supply place. You might spend a couple bucks more but your "victim" will appreciate it more...because a flavorless or slightly foul oatmeal consistency is not the most appealing thing you can do to someone.

ALSO, very important. Invest in a dremel with the flexible shaft attachment, see if you can find the small sanders for it (they make sculpting and shaping easier). You will want to have some set up where the dremel motor is above where you are working for the flexible shaft to operate well.

Okay, that was long winded...hopefully not confusing. Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## Mortissanguine

_______

HIM: This is great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of your expertise.

About this time last year I was saying that I was going to get with the program and put a home haunt together for “this year” – and also get into the dental appliances. Now here it is a year later and all I did was think about it. I’ll have to get on my horse for the coming year and actually do something.

TOO FUNNY on the “agitator” for removing bubbles. I have read about that part of the process.

There is actually a lady in my town that has a small dental lab. She’s right next to my barber shop.

It’s just a one person shop. I was thinking about asking her where she got some of her stuff. However, with your tip – I think I have 2-3 “novelty shops” along the highway out here that would provide the item needed for a lot less than a professional dental tool. I actually already have a Dremel tool and the bench mount with the flex shaft.

((small part deleted))

Do you ever buy individual teeth sets to make non-fang appliances? I have seen numerous places that sell those – as well as eBay. I couldn’t help but wonder why someone might not buy one set – and then make a mold of that full set and just make their own going forward. Maybe that’s not a practical idea.

((and he mentioned how he wouldn't bother me with more questions, which he wasn't..it was surprising how much information I didn't realize I knew...being a teacher is the best way to relearn what you know))
_________

ME: Your questions are definitely not a bother. Home haunting can be a lot of fun. If you get a moment check out some of the videos we have done on our web page. We also have a facebook page with a LOT of pics.

One of my best friends is a dentist, and he has some fun toys. I priced the vibrator he has for getting rid of bubbles on ebay and it was about $180-220...so I will go with one of the pleasure models every time. And, when I am doing impressions I get a funny ice breaker story that is only a bit off color.

I use the individual teeth sets, they are awesome time savers for when you are doing zombie teeth or a set that need to look a bit realistic and aren't just a sharp toothed monster craw. I like reaaaaaallllly thin denture appliances that fit over the teeth. They can be difficult in keeping them from being fragile and strong enough, but I hate having to change my speech too much. So, when using the ready made teeth I shave off the back with a dremel so it has less profile. I build them a little differently than monster makers shows. Instead of doing the thick gum "snake" pressed over the teeth I use the pink acrylic in a runny consistency and spread it over the model (positive cast) until it is a thin coat. Then I use a bit of super glue (a new technique I love), fasten the teeth to this thin gum coating. Let that dry and then build the gums around it, slowly shaping the ridges and indentations to make it look like the teeth are set in. It is a little longer process but I love how thin they are, how well I can talk, and how the gums look.

Another tip for when you are inserting teeth into a gum line. I will do a small hole bored in to the back of the tooth where it will be inside the gum. Then I fill that with the pink acrylic as I build up the gums. This makes a physical "lock" that adds strength to the tooth, in addition to the chemical locks of the acrylic and monomer and super glue.

So, yes I use the real sets, and love them.


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## Mortissanguine

HIM: Well, I received my Monster Makers DVD over the weekend. It is a pretty decent video. It definitely has me even more interested in giving this a try. A couple of things I saw right off the bat were that the appliances they built really had no major concern over the ability to "speak" regularly while wearing them. They were pretty heavy and thick built. The fangs maybe not quite so much - but the other would have given you a pretty good mouthfull. 

The other thing I noticed was that they actually cast their models in UltraCal 30 rather than a dental stone. That is probably less expensive than dental stone - but do you have an opinion on that process?

I've actually been trying to even find UltraCal 30 around here - and not having a ton of luck yet.

I was reading a post in The Effects Lab forums the other day. It appears to be by someone that is part of Dental Distortions (toothdoc77). He has a tutorial out there where he shows what he calls a "snap mold" made out of lab putty. That looks like it would create the type of appliance dental distortions manufactures. 

One that just kind of sits on the front side of your teeth. When you have a moment, if you are familiar with this option - can you enlighten me a little on it. I saw the picture of the snap mold, but then he created some silicone molds as well - so I'm wondering what that is all about. I searched for "snap mold" in the forum, but didn't find anything
other than his primary post.

_________________
ME: Okay, there is a lot here to discuss, I will do my best to explain it. I may have not given this caution before, but if you or your subject has a peridontal disease or issues with their teeth a dentist should be consulted before doing any of this cosmetic stuff. No need to take unnecessary risks.

Monster Makers do use a tooth and gum model that is really large. I would put this sort of thing on someone who does not need to talk and would only make limited animal like noises. I like to have thin gum lines and thin fangs because I want to be comfortable.

There is a way to do this, but will explain it later and answer some of the other questions. Dental stone is okay, I find it is pretty durable but chips like all plasters. Even ultracal will chip. I wasn't able to find ultracal 30 at the supply place I use (they since got it) so I got hydrocal and it did the job just fine. Honestly, the most luck I have had is with a two part plastic resin I got from Tap Plastics. I coat it with the alcote a few times, coat it with vasoline and then sculpt on it. I like the plastic because of the quick set time and that it has a very slight flex to it without it snapping off inside the fangs I am working on. That doesn't mean that I haven't had to dremel the model of the teeth off of the fangs to get them, I just find it works a little easier. Plus, I hate plaster drying times and snapping a tooth off inside the teeth and gums I am building.

ALSO, if you are going to be doing lots of sets of fangs for yourself or someone else with no real expected change in the way the teeth and mouth are shaped (from growing up, or dental work, for example) I suggest making a silicone mold of the original model of the teeth you are working on. That way if you destroy that model you can repour into the silicone mold and have an exact working copy to use.

If you are going to be building the SAME TYPE OF FANG ON THE SAME PERSON you can do the same silicone mold technique of the finished fangs as they are on the model. You put a release agent on the fangs AND model, do a silicone mold of them together, let it set up, remove the fangs and then using the model and the mold you can sandwich the acrylic in the negative space created making really fast sets of fangs with minimal work.

Okay, so dental distortions...these guys do a few types. One is a custom lab created dental acrylic like you want to get in to. The other is the mass produced (and pretty good looking for the price) customizable grill covers. They are a thermo plastic that is colored and shaped to look like a nasty grill. Put them in hot water with some small heat activated plastic bits on the back, form them to your teeth and they "snap" in place. If you wanted to design your own types of these teeth you could. Look up friendly plastic beads... you might remember the plastic bracelet and necklace craze of the same name in the 80s. Well they have an off white colored bead that when you put it in hot water turns clear and malleable...and is can be painted...but if you do paint it I would suggest doing a clear coat over top to protect it, it is plastic. 

This type of plastic is the same that they use in those off the shelf Scarecrow brand fang caps to "custom" fit them to your teeth. Basically the hard plastic shell gets the heated malleable plastic bits put inside and you shove your tooth into it and make a mold of your tooth pressed inside the cap. The plastic cools and you have the tooth interior shaped to your tooth. You can do the same thing with custom acrylic caps.

Okay, now for the thin gumlines...I may have explained this before. I will do the alcote and vasoline "release" bariers on the model and then take the pink gum colored acrylic and then with a metal spatula tool (I love the ones from Harbor Freight) do a thin layer of it across the front four six or so teeth with a little overlapping the sharp biting edge of the teeth with just a bit behind the teeth. This forms a "lock" that will snap over your teeth. I then sculpt, or have molded teeth that I layout to see how I want them to fit on the gums. You can adhere them with a touch of super glue. Or you can some small indentations in the pink acrylic after it hardens with a dremel, put a bit more of the soft acrylic in the hole, put monomer on the tooth and then glue them in this way. But you HAVE to build the gum line up around the tooth to lock it in AND to make it look realistic (like how teeth are inset in to gums...reference pics are useful here).

If you design a style you like you can always make a mold of the exteriors with out the back and then do friendly plastic custom fits for all different mouths.

Did this answer the questions?


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## Mortissanguine

HIM: In my internet reading/research I have been seeing quite a few references to vacuum forming. It "appears" they are talking about forming another plastic negative of the plaster/dental stone positive. Is that the case? I can't find anything on the reason, benefits, how to, for vacuum forming.

I have found that some dental offices obviously do it - and I have seen some of the equipment. One of the online SPFX shops even sells the plastic sheets - but no real "how to" or "why" info.

Can you enlighten me a little on that?
_________________
ME: Excellent question. I have a friend who is a dentist (I might have mentioned that before) and he prefers doing the vacuum formed style to the others. What he does is:

He will take the model (the positive) and do the vacuum form over it. Then he will remove the plastic vacuum formed sheet after it cools and hardens. 

He might actually do a couple of steps in this process that I feel is a little unnecessary...I think he actually will do the vacuume form and set it aside, then do a dental wax construction of how he wants the fangs to be built (the shape and size) on the model. Then he takes a mold of that model in impression material (no alginate, but like a squirt on VPS putty). Once he has that mold of the fangs and the model he will take it off and remove the wax fangs he built. I tease him and tell him he likes doing the wax sculpt because it gives him an excuse to use his Bunsen burner.

He puts the plastic vacuum form back on the teeth after drilling a couple of holes in the teeth that will have fangs so the acrylic will seep through and form a physical "lock".

Then he takes the mold he did of the fang sculpt and fills it with the dental acrylic/monomer and presses this on to the model of the teeth that no longer have the wax mold. This presses the acrylic into the shape of the fangs he wants and pushes it through the holes in the plastic. He also has a pressure pot (expensive dental equipment) that uses warm water to speed up the process. The top of this little device has a twist handle that adds or releases pressure to it. But for what we do, since it isn't real dentistry, I think this might be just another fun toy.

Once the cure time for the acrylic is up (you can tell by any left over acrylic that is in your workstation) you take the mold off of the positive, inspect your work, see if there are any holes or bubbles that need fixing (hopefully not). He then trims the plastic off of the front of any exposed teeth, from behind the front teeth but leaves a retainer like cover over the soft pallet, and sometimes will leave the plastic over some of the back (molar, first molar) so that it has more purchase. 

Sometimes you have to destroy the model to get the retainer off, another reason I don't prefer this version. I like to save money and time and keep my models, but sometimes they chip or just have to be damaged to get the fangs.

Then he takes one of his neat sanding tools and smooths down any sharp edges of the plastic so the mouth of the wearer isn't cut or abraded. He shapes the fangs and then polishes them.

So, in essence you make a set of fangs with a retainer that holds the fangs in place. I don't prefer these because I don't like the feel of a retainer or having to add one more layer of changing my speech to adapt to the extra foreign body in my mouth. I would rather throw some unpigmented Fixadent (white) inside a cap and wear it that way. Talking is something I think is pretty important for what I do with them.

I have discovered in some of my friends that there are mouths out there with teeth that are not far exposed from the gums (very little sticks out) and some have these horrible boring gradual slopes that make a fang cap hard to attach to when doing the traditional canine style fangs. So, I would need to use a retainer style appliance to overcome these challenges.

I know some pros do it this way for Hollywood, so it is a method that is popular.

I think you made a good choice on not getting the starter kit before the video, although I know you will watch it and say "NOW, I WANNA MAKE SOME!" You should definitely shop around.

________________________
ME: Also...something that might pique your interest...I have some clear acrylic powder (but requires violet monomer or elseit turns yellow). I have been kicking around design ideas with this to do insect like teeth or some serious mutant maws.

I have heard some of the realistic looking fangs made for hollywood are made with a coat of the clear acrylic over top so they look like real teeth. Teeth have a transparent exterior to them.

I make do by using the acrylic pigments available and do a clear top coat, sometimes a couple of coats.

I hope I answered your questions and you enjoy the video.
________________________
HIM: I have seen the clear product online. I wondered about using it with orthodontic brackets for fake braces appliances. But the brackets seem quite expensive for that.
______________________________
ME: If I was going to try the fake braces I would just sculpt them out of super sculpey and paint them or use one of the antiquing foils. Or do a sculpt and then make a BUNCH of silicone molds. You can spray the mold with a silver spray paint and pour resin in it and it will have the paint attached when you de-mold. I saw some videos on making fake scissors or tools this way on the youtube channel "brick in the yard". They have some really good how to videos.


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## Mortissanguine

Okay, and the reference to the "agitator" is that I use a "personal vibrator" (NEVER BEEN USED FOR LOVIN') to vibrate the bubbles out of the plaster or plastic when I pour it into the impression material. It is much cheaper to get a freebie from some place like Adam and Eve or a novelty store than buying a high end dental vibrator.


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## JustJimAZ

Thanks for the extraordinarily detailed response Mortissanguine! I'm sure it will help many people doing the same thing.
Wow - The Monster Makers site has a complete kit plus instructional video for $50. Definitely on my list.

Alan - Looking forward to that particular YouTube Wed video!


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## Mr_Chicken

And that's why Cory's awesome.


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## Allen H

GREAT POST! mind if I copy and paste for future use? lots of good info in here. i make teeth also but I love to hear other peoples techniques.


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## Mortissanguine

Allen H said:


> GREAT POST! mind if I copy and paste for future use? lots of good info in here. i make teeth also but I love to hear other peoples techniques.


Absolutely, all I ask is the credit for the stuff I have posted, but please, pass it around. And if you come up with any tips and tricks please share. The more we all contribute the better all of our product will be.

Thanks so much for the praise.

Cory


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## Mortissanguine

It has been some time since I have updated any new knowledge on this thread. I wanted to share some insights I have gained.

The two part resin from TAP Plastics does NOT work well with alginate. Sadly, I learned this in the second Cal Haunts class I have taught. The problem is that the chemical reaction of the resin is exothermic. Which means that it bakes the alginate while it solidifies...and sometimes bakes the alginate into the resin. 

This makes a model that is more likely to permanently bond with the dental acrylics...and thereby destroy all your work when you try and remove the prosthetic from the model...you will have to break it off.

My good friend and dentist, Dax, has turned me on to a new casting material that REALLY speeds up the process of getting a model made so you can sculpt on it. It is something he uses in his office and, honestly, I wish I had known about this before.

The material is called dental stone. You can get it from the ismile dental place I mentioned before. Maybe even some ceramics places carry it. It is a powder that you mix just like ultracal. It is a strong stone that makes a really good cast of the mold.

Now, here is where knowing a dentist is cool. But, with some elbow grease and the right tool you can get the important part also. We used his diamond wet grinder to grind off some already hardened models that were left over. These are dental stone models that have already been mixed, poured, and set. You use some of this very finely ground powder and add it to water mixing it thoroughly. He says that if you use it within a week or so it works best. After that its effectiveness wears off. It doesn't take much, we used about half of one model of the upper teeth and palate ground down in to a mason jar of water about 2/3 full.

When you are ready to mix the plaster you add MAYBE 1/4 cup of this "mother's milk" mixture of ground stone and water. Then the rest is regular water. The already set stone kicks the new powder and water in to hyperdrive. 

We had a working model I could sculpt on in 25 minutes. WAY better than the 8 hours or so I like to allow for ultracal to set and then the overnight to make sure most of the water is out of the model. I used this method when teaching at West Coast Haunters Convention.

I am still learning a lot and am in no way perfect at it...but I have been finding that because I have been playing with the stuff for a while my accidents are far less of a problem because I can usually come up with a work around. So, I suggest you start playing with it, too...hope you all can benefit from this post.


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## goneferal

Wow, this is a great and very informative thread.


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## FastEddie33

AWESOME thread!!..Would love to see a video made for it!!


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## Mortissanguine

*Video*



FastEddie33 said:


> AWESOME thread!!..Would love to see a video made for it!!


I have considered some videos, and am of two opinions on it. I love giving away knowledge and free ideas. There is a certain pleasure in seeing people learn how to do things and bring back that knowledge with new improvements. Plus, I don't like spending money, so I figure no one else does either.

But, there are folks out there who make money on teaching this stuff and selling instructional videos. And a lot of the skill I have is because I watched those, learned and adapted my own style.

Also, if I put out a free video on everything I do I might cut out some opportunities to do good works.

For example, I taught a fang class at West Coast Haunters Convention this year. I donated my materials and time so that all the money that went to the class could benefit the Oregon School for the Deaf.

It was hard. It was fast. And it was RISKY to try and get a two day process down to 6 hours. And...it was impossible to do with out my good friend, Troy's, help. I am still amazed we pulled it off, and honestly, I credit Troy. Any time he is with me on any project or hanging out it becomes epic. Just who he is.

I also have taught the class twice now for CalHaunts NorCal where the students pay for materials.

So, I have done it for free, basically, three times now...but would like the opportunity to keep making it something that not many people can teach so that more people will help me support causes I believe in (like paying for a class that benefits a charity). But then, I am teaching it so others can have the skills and then teach it themselves eventually.

See my dilemma?

I am still pondering this because it seems selfish in some ways...without being selfish in others.

Cory


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## debbie5

"(NEVER BEEN USED FOR LOVIN')"

gave me a good belly laugh...thanks for the naughtiness.


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## Ghostrider62

Nice


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## Mortissanguine

debbie5 said:


> "(NEVER BEEN USED FOR LOVIN')"
> 
> gave me a good belly laugh...thanks for the naughtiness.


I probably could have been a bit more specific. Sometime love's got nothing to do with those devices...


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