# Fog Timer Hack.....



## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

:jol:Anyone tried this?
If so, do you have a schematic for it?
The picture is a little unclear on a few of the connections.............. at least for me.
Thanks alot!!!!


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## Mr_Chicken (Nov 26, 2008)

What is it supposed to do?


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

Oh sorry!
It'll act as an event timer.
A PIR will set it off, but the timer will control "run time" and "break time".
In theory, it totally seems like it should work.
The picture is just not very clear on the wiring.
Heres a link to the site.....
http://haunterofhouses.8m.com/whats_new.html

It seems to me that some relays should be in there somewhere.


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## hpropman (Jul 27, 2008)

The picture does not give enough information. You can not see where some of the wires are going. What are you trying to do? and show us a picture of your fogger and its switch. Most foggers come with a remote switch that can be hacked and used by a prop controller


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

hpropman said:


> The picture does not give enough information. You can not see where some of the wires are going. What are you trying to do? and show us a picture of your fogger and its switch. Most foggers come with a remote switch that can be hacked and used by a prop controller


Thats what I was sayin'.
I was hoping some of you more electronically inclined could shed some light on the mystery wiring.
Its purpose seems to give you the same control for any plug in prop, as it did for your fogmachine.
It would give us an activation time, along with a "wait" time to help and keep the prop from being retriggered over and over.
I was thinking(hoping) that you guys could take it from here, and put the pieces together.
I think it could be a nice little piece for some of our smaller/simpler props.
And if we could figure in a PIR for the trigger.............. well, like I said, I bet a few of us could use this.

So, whos gonna take a stabvoorhees at this?????


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*Please clarify*

The fog timer is a fairly simple 120 v timer. It is slighly different than other timers used to control lights for intance, in that it is not clock based. IE it resets itself after finishing it's duration on cycle, then runs it's delay off cycle and then runs it's duration on cycle. Repeat.

So I take it you do not want to just have the prop activate based on this cycle? I believe you still want to have some sort of PIC to activate the prop?

The problem I see is how the timer circuit may or may not respond. If the timer circuit when activated goes through it's delay cycle first, then you obviously have an issue. If on the other hand you use the timer to provide a circuit completion for you PIC, then you run the risk of the PIC trying to activate the prop during the delay cycle from the timer, and no prop activation is the result.

So perhaps the picture you provided is someone using the timer to control the prop without any other control ? Just a prop that goes on for a set number of seconds. Then stops for a set delay and then comes back on ?

If on the other hand the timer when turned on does go into it's duration on phase instantly, the you might be able to wire a feedback circuit to keep the timer on during it's duration on phase even if the signal from the PIC is lost.

In this scenario, the PIC would control a relay. The NO side would be wired to act as the on/off switch to the timer. If as I said earlier the timer when turned on immediately went to it's duration on state, then you could take the output from the timer and activate a second relay to keep the circuit active.

Once the timer reached it's delay phase, the second relay would open and even if the PIC was activated and completing the on/off circuit, the prop would remain inactive.

Not sure if this makes sense, but I suspect some of the circuit guru's can shed some more light.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

The behavior sounds a lot like an astable 555 circuit. When a fogger is ready to go, the circuit is powered up; if this were an astable 555 it would always start "high". The timer then runs for the set "on" time and then goes "low" for the set "off" time. This sequence would repeat until the fogger's bimetallic thermostat shuts off the power. The problem with using an astable circuit is that you need to have some way to apply power to (trigger) the 555 for the desired time period (on time + off time). Sounds like a simple monostable 555 with a dry trigger would be more useful.
If the on-off cycling is what is wanted, the astable circuit will do the job. Just build it so that both the high and low times are adjustable. The 555 would control a relay, which in turn controls the prop power.


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

^^^^^^^^
What ?????:googly:
What about with out the PIR?
Does the wiring make any sense to you then?
Could it control a props on time and "pause"?


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*Control Props.*

Simple answer yes.

The timer just completes the circuit to the fogger. If you push the manual control button on the control or the one on the fogger, then that is what the timer does only electronically. The timer has a solid state relay that gets activated on and off. You will need some basic electrical knowledge. Like do you have a VOM ? First question is if the input to the remote is 120 v. It may not be. I suspect it is AC. When I get a chance I will get my fogger down and do some circuit checks for you.


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*Opps*

I just took a closer look at the picture. I think I see a reference to it being plugged directly into a wall socket, so that makes it easier. Now all you need to do is find out which wires represent the relay NO. The remote only controls the pump circuit which draws low amps, so if you try to run a prop that uses a lot of power, you will likely need to put a relay in the circuit to handle the amps.


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## Moon Dog (Oct 3, 2006)

It looks to me like the fog timer control is acting as a 555 timer as mentioned above.

Could plug a surge strip in the receptacle and turn multiple devices on/off.

Picture looks pretty straight forward to me. Need to know a little home 
electrical wiring know how.


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*How many amps ?*

Moon Dog,

Are you saying you think you could handle max of 15 amp house current through this unit ? That would be nice. Seems to me since this unit only controls the pump circuit on a fogger, the unit would not be designed to handle that much current. But ya never know.


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

The whole amp concern is what I was refering to earlier.
I cant see it being capable of the "power" handling we might need.
Im thinkin that a relay system is our best bet.

So, anyone willing to give this a shot.
I mean the actual disection and attempt.
Im willing to provide the fog timer if needed.
Im really convinced that this could work and be very useful.


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## spinman1949 (Jun 29, 2009)

*I can give it a shot.*

I did some searching. I found a fog control that indicated it would work with any fogger. This implies that the entire fogger is plugged into the unit. Could not find any specs, but lets say you had an 800 watt fogger. At 115 v house voltage, amp draw would be close to 8 amps. I am returning my Chauvet 1250 for a refund, but before I do I'll pull the controller apart. If you want to send me a controller, I can test that as well. You may be able to answer your own question if you pull the controller apart and see if you can identify the relay. I suspect it is an SSR. You might be able to get the part number off it which may allow you to find out what current it is rated for.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

For some info on Chauvet fogger internals, get in touch in CraiginPA over on Halloween Forum. He did some pretty extensive digging into the F-1250 fogger when he and I were talking to Chauvet about the possible heater upgrade.


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

I don't see anything missing from the image. They are intercepting an extension cord, and wiring the fog timer to control an outlet. The objective is an event timer.

Think about intercepting a power strip with an outdoor flood PIR. In this case...they are injecting a fog timer instead of the PIR. Jabberwocky's primary question...is this safe? And what could you control?


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

_[oops. Sounds like its understood now. I didn't see a second page link.]_


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

Yes, but I still cant tell the exact wire locations.
Are any of you able to make a schematic(wiring diagram) of this?
Also, how would you suggest adding a larger relay for this?


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## bradbaum (Jul 26, 2008)

Here is what I interpret the schematic to be.

Looks pretty simple, but the current capacity is suspect (As everyone else has said)


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

Ok, so hows this look?









Now if this is right, and we dicide that a relay is in order to handle the amps that our props would draw.......... what realay would you suggest and where would you put it?


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## bradbaum (Jul 26, 2008)

You would have to use a relay with a 120VAC coil:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049721

then you would use the green wire from the fog timer and the black wire from the wall to coil of the relay.

black wire from the wall to the com contact of the relay.

NO of the relay to the outlet (where the green wire from the fog timer goes now).

the radio shack relay has two contacts and they are only rated for 10 amps so you might look for a better relay online.


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## jabberwocky (Apr 30, 2008)

Ok, so it seems we are getting somewhere.
I take it my "redo" of the schematic looks correct?

So whos got a source for a higher amp relay....... and would like to add it into the wiring diagram?


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## DarkLore (Jan 25, 2009)

jabberwocky....did you get anywhere with this? I happened across a $10 sale on fog timers....figuring maybe I'd do this. But I haven't gotten around to it. lol...I expected a complete diagram by now.

If you wired the example jabberwocky showed....what type of items can be controlled without using a relay for more amps? 

How many amps on a shiatsu motor?


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

Use an SSR (Solid State Relay) either in conjunction with the existing relay or on it's own. These can handle up to 40A depending on requirements.

http://www.oceancontrols.com.au/relays/ssr/conch_ssr.htm

Since we can't get cheap timers over in Oz, I made up my own delay/duration timer based on 'my' Picaxe based $10 servo board along with a couple of extra pots and an SSR. Mine only controls up to 4A (I'm using a cheap SSR) but that is plenty to drive what I want.


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