# Using powered PIR's with Picoboo?



## Arris138 (Apr 24, 2010)

Is it possible to use a powered PIR type sensor (like a hacked Quorum PIR) as a trigger for a picoboo? The picoboo seems to be sending out voltage over the trigger terminals for things like pressure plates or unpowered triggers, so can that be used with powered sensors that send voltage out when tripped? I've tried changing the picoboo to NC/NO, and haven't had any luck getting it to register with the quorum.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

The picoboo put out 12v to power triggers. On my model there are 3 trigger terminals. A common, a 12v+ and the trigger terminal. One wire from you trigger and your 12v- both go to the common terminal.


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## Arris138 (Apr 24, 2010)

So you're saying ground from the PIR to the 'IN' on the picoboo trigger terminal, and 12v from the PIR to the common of the relay output?


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

I just bought some of those Radio Shack parralax PIR's. I (also) want to use them to trigger my Picaboo 104s and 105s. I see that the voltage needed is between 3.5V and 5V. It sounds like I need a separate power supply? 

I also saw another post where Otaku describes a lot of false triggers without a filter (or something) of some kind??

I LOVE the EFX Teck boxes I bought but I'd hate to use them and thier PIR's to trigger a relay to trigger my Picaboo's. I'd love to just use the PIR's that I just bought.

Essentially the Picaboos just need something to temporarily close the circuit to activate the prop. No voltage needed on the Picaboo side of the equasion

Has anyone worked this out??


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

As long as you pir has a set of dry contacts. All you are doing with the picoboo is crossing 12v+ from to picoboo to the trigger terminal.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have no Idea what Dry contacts are.

This is the PIR.

The 3 pins are as follows from left to right (ignoring the High/Low Jumpers)

Pin 1=G 
Pin 2= +3.5 to +5V
Pin 3= Signal

The Picaboo Seems to have the exact same contacts, Except the middle one is +12V.

Do I need a voltage regulator between the Picaboos 12V and the PIR's max voltage of +5V?? Or am I barking completely up the wrong tree??.

All the Picaboo needs to be triggered is a N/O switch. Press the Button, close the circuit and the prop is triggered.

Is there a schematic somewhere that might cover this?? For you High Tech guys, this must seem like a No brainer, but I'm still new at this and don't want to ruin these little guys.

PS, I haven'/t even broken out my Picaxe out of the packaging yet LOL, I',m hoping to get into it a bit more over the winter.


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## joker (Sep 25, 2007)

See page 7 of this manual for triggering a picoboo with a PIR.
http://www.frightideas.com/downloads/picoBoo_FI-104s_Manual.pdf


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

The pir you are using will not trigger the picoboo alone. A simple solution might be to find a relay be it a mechanical relay or a solid state relay that will operate from the 5v output of your pir. The relay will give you a set of dry contacts. Dry contacts mean a relay like switch where its terminals are isolated from the source that is controling it. Example. The output channels on.the.picoboo controlers are dry contacts. They are not connected to the controlled side therefore not providing voltage just an opening or closing switch.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

stagehand1975 said:


> The pir you are using will not trigger the picoboo alone. A simple solution might be to find a relay be it a mechanical relay or a solid state relay that will operate from the 5v output of your pir. The relay will give you a set of dry contacts. Dry contacts mean a relay like switch where its terminals are isolated from the source that is controling it. Example. The output channels on.the.picoboo controlers are dry contacts. They are not connected to the controlled side therefore not providing voltage just an opening or closing switch.


Ok, Cool, Now we're getting somewhere  Thanks for the explanation of dry contacts. ..... Understood.

I've used 120V Wal Mart Motion Detectors ( the type on your garage) with relays to trigger my Picaboos, so I'm good with that part. I just LOVE how well my EFX TEK boxes work with these exact same PIR's. I'm asuming there is some complex circuitry in these units that make the PIRs work so effectively??

Is it as simple as getting a proper power source for this PIR and then finding a relay that will work with it (Dry contacts)?? THen connecting to the Picaboo's??

I know someone has used these for this purpose, and if there was a really clear, step by step hack, these things would fly off the shelves even faster than they already do. They're SO Cool and SOOO Reliable.

I'm a connect part A to part B kinda guy, or a schematic kinda guy LOL. I really hope someone can fill in the voids. At least I know I need a relay.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

I must be a Blithering Idiot. I did figure out that the Picaboo instructions link given in post #7 are for prewired PIR units. Not Raw radio shack (Parralax) PIR's

I bought These PIR's  from radio shack. Is there a link somewhere on how to make that unit create closed circut when motion is detected so I can trigger my Picaboos with them? or would it be cheaper and easier to buy the PIR's premade for this application from Frightprops for around 25$- $30?

Again, after buying some EFX Teck Prop controllers with PIR's built in, I am Now an inconditional fan of PIR's as a trigger ...... IF I can make them or buy them CHEAPLY. Otherwise I'm fine with Hacking a regular motion detector and installing a relay. For all I know it might bre as simple as hooking the red wire to the.... etc/...

But MAN... I really want to use these PIR's The solution is OUT there. I'm hoping my Plea will bring the solution to this thread. If I need a relay, Which one should I get?

My apologies for the HiJack, but since there wasn't any activity for a long time I thought it'd be better to have a continuance of the conversation, rather than start a new thread.

HELP??


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Is this the Parallax rev. A PIR? There should be a diagram on the package indicating power in, ground, and signal out connections. They may also be printed on the PCB. If its the rev. A, then the supply voltage needs to be 3.3 - 5VDC (a 3AA pack will work). When the sensor sees a heat source, it'll send ~3-4VDC to the output pin. This usually isn't enough to drive a relay, except for small reed-types that can't handle much of a load. So you need a transistor as the switch for another device. Here's a circuit that will do just that:

http://www.hauntforum.com/picture.php?albumid=554&pictureid=6294

I have a couple of these boards at work and can get you a pic of the layout if needed. It all fits on a little RS perfboard. The circuit in the drawing is for use in triggering those USB audio boards from Electronics123. You can substitute a relay for the audio board, but it will need a power source, and that source needs to have a common ground with the power source for the circuit. I do have a circuit that incorporates the relay and powers it from the 9 volt battery, but I don't have a drawing of it yet. Holler if you have questions.

Edit - I do have the relay circuit drawing - here's the link.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/membe...11-picture85256-pir-relay-trigger-circuit.jpg


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

I should add that I don't know what sort of trigger a Picoboo needs to see - voltage input, dry contact, or something else. In any case, the PIR/relay circuit will do the job.


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## pshort (May 6, 2008)

There probably should be some caps on the input and output of the 7805. Another possibility is to use a zener and dropping resistor in place of the regulator (e.g. 1N4733A and 150Ω @ 1/2W).


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

The picaboos can be triggered by a bent paperclip to close the circuit. That's why this has been so frustrating... I knew it was/is a simple solution.

Your diagram is helpful Gary, thanks... What is that middle square box between the voltage regulator and transistor??? the one with the red and black dot on it?

For some reason I can close my eyes and design almost any mechanical device, but with electronics, I need a babysitter LOL

And yes, a Picture of that baby board would be really cool.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Pshort, agreed about the caps. I looked at the V+ in the Picoboo manual, and its voltage varies with the supply voltage (9-12VDC). To use the Parallax rev. A PIR, you will need a way to regulate the V+ down to 5VDC. Either a 7805 with bypass caps or pshort's suggestion will do the trick.
That block with the dots is a terminal strip. It's optional. After reading the Picoboo manual I think all you need is the voltage regulator. The manual says the Picoboo will work with low-voltage sensors, probably in the 3-5VDC output range, so your PIR's output voltage shouldn't harm the unit. I can draw up the LM7805 board for you tomorrow. You'll need the LM7805, two 0.1 uF disc caps, and the perf board. You can use T-blocks for the wire connections, or just solder them directly to the perf board. I found that 3-conductor servo cables work well with this PIR.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

In ANY event, if you or anyone else could do a thorough Laymans tutorial on a N/O PIR trigger switch, it would probabaly start a revolution..... a good one...I love how effective and flexible they are. I can solder the red wire to the green terminal...and place an order based on a good parts list.... and I can even read rudimentary schematics.

Step 1..

Step 2... etc


I Know that this type of PIR tutorial would be one of the hottest threads EVER, especially if it was done like the instructions on Wal mart furniture. Standard Disclaimers apply. LOLLOL (Don't stick your tongue to a frozen flagpole)


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

Soo Cool... Thanks gary..


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

I have been using the Quarum PIRs for a while now. I built relay boards for them with a 5 volt relay. The modified PIR units, wires soldered to the 2 posts inside the PIR, I use red (+) and black (-), so as to not be confused. These enegize the 5 volt relay which in turn sends the signal(wires from the common and signal, completing the circuit) to the PicoBoo. With this you wont need the (+) terminal for the PIR connection. It's the same as using a paperclip. I also wire in an LED, so I can tell if the PIR is working or not. I don't remember which site it was that has the modifiaction of the PIRs posted.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

Of the 3 terminals on a picoboo. Com, 12+ and trigger. The trigger terminal needs to see 12v+. So all you are doing is sending the 12v+ terminal to the trigger terminal.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

So it looks like most PIRs aren't compatible out-of-the-box with a Picoboo. All the low-voltage units I've worked with have a 3-5VDC output signal. Greg, I think you'll need the circuit with a transistor to switch the trigger. BTW, does the Picoboo ignore multiple trigger signals, and start its program when it sees the first pulse? I ask because some PIRs will send 2-3 output pulses when they go high.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

The picoboo will ignore multiple triggers, starting its program on the first trip only ready to trip again at the end of the program


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

^^^^^ What He said ^^^^^

I'm not 100% sure if it ignores subsequent signals. I think it does. When I trigger the picaboo using a regular garage motion detector (With a relay added), the motion detector stays on for 6 seconds and doesn't retrigger the Picaboo. It always completes it's routine even if the motion detector is retriggered during the routine. It can and does Immediately retrigger after the routine is over with constant traffic, (The motion detector just stays on) so a pre or post routine delay would be benificial someday.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Sounds like multiple triggers aren't a problem, then. That's good. Regarding the immediate re-triggers, is there a way to program the Picoboo routine to include a time period at the end of its routine (where the controller isn't actually doing anything) that acts as a virtual delay? This is kind of like adding silence to the end of an audio file on one of those USB sound players. Until the audio file plays out, including the silent period, the board can't be re-triggered. Since the Pico is just looking for the supply voltage to be shorted to the trigger terminal, the board drawing I posted earlier will definitely work. Greg, I'll post the parts list soon.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

After you program your routine, don't press the program button again until the desired amount of delay time. You can do the same in the beginning too. Meaning after pressing the program button, don't start your routine until a desired pre delay.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Cool. If you decide to change the length of the delay time after the routine has finished, do you have to re-program the entire routine?


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## Darkmaster (May 9, 2009)

Otaku said:


> Cool. If you decide to change the length of the delay time after the routine has finished, do you have to re-program the entire routine?


Yes, you will have to reprogram the routine and shorten or lenghten the pause (delay) section.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

With those of us that like what I consider the more complicated controls. I like the simplicity of a picoboo. You don't need anything special to reprogram it. If In the middle being open I want to change it, just press a couple of buttons and your done, no pc required, no code to have to write.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

This thread is getting kinda sidetracked, but here are the pics of a 12VDC to 5VDC circuit built on a small RS perf board. This circuit will let you use 5VDC PIRs with a Picoboo. Attach the Picoboo V+ and V- wires to the input terminals and the PIR +5VDC and ground to the output terminals. The third wire on the PIR (signal) goes to the trigger input on the Picoboo. On this board, the 12VDC side is at the bottom of the pics; red wires indicate V+.

The parts you need are:
LM7805 regulator - 1 ea. RS part 276-1770
0.1uF disc caps - 2 ea. RS part 272-135
T-blocks, 2-position - 2 ea. Not avail. at RS
Hookup wire
Dual mini-board, RS part 276-148
The T-blocks aren't at RS, so its probably better to get the parts from AE.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

stagehand1975 said:


> Of the 3 terminals on a picoboo. Com, 12+ and trigger. The trigger terminal needs to see 12v+. So all you are doing is sending the 12v+ terminal to the trigger terminal.


I'm curious about this - the Picoboo needs a 9-12VDC supply, so the V+ at the trigger terminal group may only be 9VDC. Does the trigger input really need to see 9-12VDC, or can a lower voltage signal (3-5VDC) do the job?


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

I have never tried. I should pull one out and play around.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

Cool, thanks. Let us know what happens. If the Pico trigger needs to see the same voltage as it's supply, then I'll revise the circuit to include a switch (transistor or relay) to send the V+ to the trigger when the PIR goes high.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

I contacted Fright Ideas with my question, and Travis sent me this Tech Note. It shows how to wire up a 5VDC PIR for triggering a PicoBoo. Easy to do. I'll rebuild the little perf board and revise the parts list. I'd like to make it as close to plug 'n' play as possible.

http://www.hauntforum.com/picture.php?albumid=919&pictureid=13280


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

I know this thread has been totally HiJacked, but it had been inactive for so long I didn't think anyone would mind, besides it's probably a good thing that the earlier info is still within the thread.

WOW Gary, Thank you!!! I think you should post your final version in it's own PIR thread. I can think of several diffferent variations that could be included in the future depending on your final solution. I really think many of us will be building these. 

I have found the PIR's are SO Much better than home style garage type motion detectors (Hacked with a relay built in). By putting a tube or some kind of impediment near or around the sensor you can get extremely accurate triggering of a prop. The Garage ones work OK but sometimes get triggered at very different TOT locations. If your prop rely's on timing, nothing beats a PIR. Hopefully your design includes an LED to show when the PIR is doing it's Job.



The only other suggestion for future versions would be a built in Pot for "Post delay" to prevent Immediate retriggering.


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## Otaku (Dec 3, 2004)

OK, the circuit is built and tested. It works as advertised. I'll start a new thread for this item and move the latest posts on this subject over there.


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