# Looking for alternatives to iPod's



## VashTLD (Jul 1, 2013)

Hello everyone! I have been doing a bit of research for the last few weeks trying to figure out an alternative to our current system for ambient sound. Our basic setup for our haunt right now is that we use Gilder Fluke SD 50/0's for our house sound, which are played out of older 80W speakers we have spread throughout the house.

For ambient tracks we are using older iPod shuffles. These are used in a few places in each house, for various sounds such as bugs in a swamp to a circus theme in another house. The only issue is that they are unreliable and a hassle. Each night we must hook them all up, start them and ensure they are working. At the end of the night we then go around and gather them, place them on chargers and repeat the process the next day. It takes a bit of time when you have somewhere around 10 to 12 of these scattered throughout each house and they are prone to failure and have been lost numerous times considering their size.

What I am asking is, does anyone know of a solution to centralize all of our ambient audio? Is there a mixing board I can use which I can run lines from to each power speaker and then output different sounds depending on the room? It would make life much easier and ensure better consistency. Thanks.


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## wandererrob (Aug 8, 2007)

I've been looking for a similar mixer type solution and have yet to find one that allows multiple inputs to be fed to separate multiple outputs. And so I've just stuck to a stack of small amplifiers each with an MP3 player feeding it.

However, for most audio I put separate sounds on each channel of the MP3 players, then feed left audio to one amp, right audio to another. 

I haven't found a better, all-in-one solution yet.


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## shadowswithin (Oct 6, 2013)

Sorry if this gets a little confusing. (I know a lot about computers & sometimes assume that everyone else does too...)

The ideal solution, in my opinion, would be to move all of the audio to a computer and output your individual sounds to the room it needs to go to with audio software. This sounds simple this day and age, but it presents a few problems. 

1. You need a computer. A tower computer with some extra room inside for problem #2.

2. 10 to 12 separate sets of speakers requires 10 to 12 outputs. Even most high-end sound cards max out at 10 outputs, so you would have to install two of them. 

3. This would mean a lot of cable to run. A LOT. Each room would need it's own wire for the speakers. And they would all run right to the back of the computer. It is not easy to hide all of that. 

4. Learning how to use an audio program to route all of the sounds to the proper destination takes time depending on how computer-savvy you are. 

5. Money. You're looking at $250 apiece for the sound cards, more for the cable, and even more for having someone install the cards if you don't feel comfortable working on your PC yourself. 

6. It's a computer. It has the capability to be as finicky as the iPod Shuffle's do. 

All in all though, if I had the money this is how I would solve your sound problem. Plus, as an added bonus you would have a multi-room audio system for the other 11 months of the year...


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

In the 5000 sq ft haunt that I am the tech director of. I am using a large pro mixer for bands and such. Band sound is a side job for me so it wasn't purchased just for the haunt. It is a 24 input mixer with a main out and 8 subgroups. It also has 6 aux outs. As with any mixer all of the 24 channels can be routed to the main mix but with this board any of the channels can be routed to any of the subgroups and main in any combination. Each subgroup has its own output. How ever I am not using this board to its fullest potential yet.
I am using it for a fm broascasted thunder track and for a movie we show outside in our concession area.

Because of the size of the haunt we have bank of amps and cd player in the front and another bank in the back. Our cd player and even some of the amps are starting to become unreliable. I am looking to convert to mp3s. I found on eBay yesterday a DJ style mp3 player. I don't yet know if this will work for me as most DJ style anything doesn't have a repeat function. However this unit is a rack mountable dual mp3 player. You load a SD card in each side of it with your mp3 on it and they can be played independently from each other with seperate outputs. The other downside is that they are 150 or more, so basically you get 2 players for that price.


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## hedg12 (Jul 6, 2008)

As shadowswithin said above, it can be done with a PC. It's actually really pretty easy and can be inexpensive if you have an old PC to start with. Winamp (free download) is capable of running multiple instances on the same PC and can output each instance to a separate sound card. USB sound cards can be had for less than $20 each. 
You can find a writeup about this type of setup here. (You can ignore the parts about X-10 and Girder - that's for remote control.)


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

The cost on the sound cards would be prohibitive for most people.
One of my questions would be how elaborate of a speaker system does each/any individual room/scene need? If rooms don't really need stereo, then you can use one channel for one room and the other for the second room. But it still comes back to money, as well as power consumption, heat issues, and someplace to store it all during the off season.
You might look at using boom boxes in individual rooms. While it doesn't give you the remote location for control, you may find that you can scrounge some from your "slave "
labor force for use for the night or two you are doing your haunt. One of my boom boxes will play music from a flash drive, or any other USB source, as well as CD, cassette (yes, they still make those), or radio. Keep your eyes open in your local throw away paper, they often have stereos for just a few bucks, if you already have CD or DVD players, all you have to do is plug them in to the amp and hook up the speakers.
Because of the rising cost of copper and such, speaker wire prices have gone up a fair bit, again, one of the benefits of having your sound source remain local to the scene or room it's for.


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## camsauce (Oct 16, 2009)

VashTLD said:


> Hello everyone! I have been doing a bit of research for the last few weeks trying to figure out an alternative to our current system for ambient sound. Our basic setup for our haunt right now is that we use Gilder Fluke SD 50/0's for our house sound, which are played out of older 80W speakers we have spread throughout the house.
> 
> For ambient tracks we are using older iPod shuffles. These are used in a few places in each house, for various sounds such as bugs in a swamp to a circus theme in another house. The only issue is that they are unreliable and a hassle. Each night we must hook them all up, start them and ensure they are working. At the end of the night we then go around and gather them, place them on chargers and repeat the process the next day. It takes a bit of time when you have somewhere around 10 to 12 of these scattered throughout each house and they are prone to failure and have been lost numerous times considering their size.
> 
> What I am asking is, does anyone know of a solution to centralize all of our ambient audio? Is there a mixing board I can use which I can run lines from to each power speaker and then output different sounds depending on the room? It would make life much easier and ensure better consistency. Thanks.


iPod shuffles sound perfect to me. What about just working out routing a USB cable to each of them charge them? I'd just leave them on and turn the speakers on/off.


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## VashTLD (Jul 1, 2013)

@shadowswithin

Despite the post I am actually quite computer capable. I hadn't thought too much about sound cards though as I have never had a dedicated one (everything has always been onboard audio). This solution sounds like the best as it seems like the most reliable and exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely be looking in to this solution for next year. Budget isn't too much of an issue, they had talked about dumping $10,000 in to bringing the operation to a new level next year. 

@stagehand1975

Would it be possible to see the link you found?

@hedg12

Thanks for the link!

@fontgeek 

Rooms with ambient audio always have one speaker so they are outputting mono sound. I would like to move away from boomboxes, mostly because the issue becomes in storing them. We have a dozen or so which we have yet to throw away, however nearly all of them are broken. A combination of poor storage, abuse and age makes them mostly all useless. 

They do have their benefits though, last year I used the cassette function on one of them to rip an old set of sounds for a prop we had. Saved my ass!


@camsauce 

They didn't have any onsite. I may go out this weekend and buy some but the show is almost over (we have five more nights) so I don't think they will want to spend the money on something which will not be used next year.


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## NightRider785 (Dec 17, 2013)

*A place to start*

I am also looking at centralizing audio at the haunt where I am tech director. My ultimate choice would be: http://www.alcorn.com/products/ProTraxx/
With 2 channel amps, one could disperse 16 mono tracks with 8 amps! Only a large amount of speaker wire would be necessary.
However, the price for that is pretty high, more than $3k... Anyone know of a similar thing that may go for a cheaper price??


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

NightRider, part of the answer to your question lies in where you need to or will place the source for your sounds. If it's done locally, then you won't need as much wire, if it all is going to come from a single, central location then the wire ends up being a much bigger issue. You would also have to deal with the potential problems/challenges, of the heat and power consumption as well as the wiring, again, this is why many go with more portable, local sources for their sounds (read boom-boxes). There are multi-track recorders/players, but you still end up having to have the amps to provide the power, and the cost of the wiring ends up staying the same. Not to mention that those multitrack recorders/players are not inexpensive either.


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## NightRider785 (Dec 17, 2013)

Yeah, the $3k was for the multitrack player by itself. I'm not too worried about speaker wire cost, and power is not an issue. The big things are the cost of the player, and ventilation (thanks for reminding me about that second part).


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

With the cost of copper being what it is, it's definitely a cost you are going to wrestle with.
I think that if you can use or rent out the use of your stuff in the off season, it would give you a way to afford to use it for a haunt, but as you said, 3K is a hefty chunk of change for just the player. If the amps aren't an issue, I'd look at some of the software packages for sound production you could run on an old computer. If the various channels can be distributed by USB, eithernet, firewire, etc., it may be a cheaper way to go.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

I like the looks if that system. It it is a little cost prohibitive. Are are in the process of going the inexpensive route right now. Although cheap brand. We found technical pro. We are buying 2 different units. One unit is a rack mount SD or USB player stand alone that can also record. The other unit is the same thing with a built in amp. Both units once loaded with media will automatically start and repeat once turned on. They range in prices from 60 to 100 dollars. I found them on eBay. 

I will still be connecting them to the system I described above.


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## Palmdale Haunter (Mar 3, 2012)

We'll you have the option of using something like the pyle PTAU45 amplifier.... It has a built in MP3 player with a USB port built in... I know several people who use these... They can be put in your spaces or centralized.... They go for under $100....

Another idea is to use DAW type software and USB sound cards.... Most DAW packages can handle as much hardware as the CPU can tolerate. Reaper is a shareware ($40 I think) very powerful package... You just route the tracks to different hardware outputs....
You can download it as a full functional trial for free and buy some USB audio cards on eBay for $2 each and try it....


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## diggerc (Feb 22, 2006)

I saw this wifi based set up while shopping this past Saturday and of course thought about the haunt possibilities right away. Way expensive no doubt but It looks like it is the next thng in sound systems.
Bose | SoundTouch® music systems | SoundTouch™ Wi-Fi® Music ..
SoundTouch Wi-Fi music systems let you stream Internet radio, Pandora and ... app to play the same music everywhere or play different music in different rooms.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

I have seen something like that advertised on tv, the one I saw was called sonos. I never thought of using them in a haunt but that is a good idea. You would just need one centralized PC and a good router and the rest is wireless.


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## stagehand1975 (Feb 22, 2010)

I just looked up the sonos music system. Though expensive, it looks to be limitless. It can be wirelessly controlled through WiFi from an iTouch, iPhone, iPad, android phone or tablet. You can even individually control volume level in each room from the same smartphone app, it looked like there are 5 different size options available and a subwoofer to go with. They are all self powered and one option in a 220 watt amp to power existing speakers. If I had the money, I would probably buy some prices to check it out.


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## diggerc (Feb 22, 2006)

I would imagine prices will drop on the technology and the price for the apps will go up. 
By Halloween Wal-Mart may have a version that will be more versatile than any home haunter really needs.


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## Dark Hawke (Mar 28, 2008)

I've created a centralized MP3 player system.
I have 10 MP3 player boards. They play in Stereo of course. Using Audacity I have 2 different sound fx (one on right channel, one on Left), creating the capacity of 20 Tracks. 
Made one for a fellow haunter. 6 boards, up to 12 tracks. All from a centralized location. 
They do require powered speakers like your ipod. 
My latest version has added the ability for triggers.
I can get some pics if anyone is interested.


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## BillyVanpire (Apr 22, 2015)

Dark Hawke said:


> I've created a centralized MP3 player system.
> I have 10 MP3 player boards. They play in Stereo of course. Using Audacity I have 2 different sound fx (one on right channel, one on Left), creating the capacity of 20 Tracks.
> Made one for a fellow haunter. 6 boards, up to 12 tracks. All from a centralized location.
> They do require powered speakers like your ipod.
> ...


pix would be great, is this a wireless system?


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## sanityassassin (Mar 15, 2008)

I found some more information on using a computer for multi zone output 
http://www.breakthrusoftware.com/html/products/soundmgr/outputZones.html
They include information on a multi output sound card as well using multiple usb sound cards and how to make it all work with their software. Even if you don't buy their software it might it might give you some information about how to get it set up.


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