# Opinions Needed: Please Read



## nunviolence (Oct 14, 2014)

Hi, everyone. I'm new to hauntforum, but I was really happy when I discovered it. 
I'm a college student, and for one of my classes I have to write a research paper. My chosen topic is "Amateur vs Professional Haunts". I was wondering if any of you would kindly answer a few questions for me. I won't use your username if you do not want me to, but I will be using some responses as quotes within my paper. Thank you in advance if you choose to help me out!
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1. *What makes a haunt seem "amateurish"?*

2. *What makes a haunt seem "professional"?*

3. *Do effects play a role in classifying a haunt?*

4. *If a person makes a haunt for money, is the haunt considered professional or amateur?*

5. *If a person makes a haunt for fun, is the haunt considered professional or amateur?*


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## Fright Boy (Oct 1, 2014)

*1. For me it comes down to lack of detail and cheap props; or at least props that just don't seem to fit in their environment. It's not about how much a prop costs, but how it is used. A lot can be said for thinking you haunt through.

2. Attention to detail. Music and lighting. Use of shadows. If you have a bubble maker in a cemetery, you're doing it wrong. But if you put it in a lab, alien space ship, clown circus, or vortex room, you have thought out the best use of your props. Pro haunts go that extra step. It's not just about placing some tombstones in the yard, but how to light them. What music would set the mood. Using a fog chiller and hiding it behind a prop.

3. "Whatchu talkin bout Willis?" Do you mean Projectors, peppers ghost or air cannons and scissor lifters? I would say yes to both. And also no. I have seen some nice static scenes that because of the use of light and shadow, and quality props they are what i would call a Pro Haunt.

4. Do they keep the money or is it for charity? This is something else to be considered. I do not think that it matters. If I spend my money to buy and make props and then take the time to lay it all out, maintain it, and then put it all away for next year, and I ask for some money, I think it's ok. Besides, it'll all go back into the haunt anyway.

5.If I liked model cars and I made them and sold them for money, does that make me a Pro? Just because you do it for love and money does not necessarily put you in one box or the other. Most haunters Pro or Am do it because we love Halloween. We love to see people enjoy the work we have put into our haunt. If people stopped enjoying my haunt, it would't keep me from decorating, but I sure would not go the extra step that I do, knowing how they will enjoy it.

Good idea for a paper. Feel free to use my name.
*


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## nunviolence (Oct 14, 2014)

For effects I meant like decorations, lighting, sounds/music, or props. Sorry for the ambiguity there, I'll update the post if I can.

Also, what I said about money, I meant keeping the money for themselves,not for charity. I asked the last two questions because they are relevant to my class. According to an essay we had to read, amateurism is categorized by the fact that the individual does his job/hobby because he loves it while getting no money out of it while a professional does his job/hobby solely for the money. I included both of these to see what people think, then I will compare them to the definitions we learned in class. Thank you for responding, you've been a huge help!


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## RWB (Oct 16, 2012)

Interesting thought.... A professional usually starts as an amateur whether it's a yard haunt or playing a sport. When they find they can do both (play/have fun) and (make money off it) the two worlds collide. 

If you were to go by pure definition as you have stated then yes professional means you're doing it for monetary gain. There are some amateurs who have more talent than supposed professionals but they're not trying to make a living at. I guess at first I questioned if there was some blurring of the lines but I guess money is the bottom line here.


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

I'll mirror some of what Fright Boy said:

1. Quality of the items used and lack of planning as to how they are used, regardless of quality, can say "amateurish".

2. What Fright Boy said - attention to detail. If every scene looks as if it came right off the stage or a good movie set, that gives the feel of "professional". It doesn't have to involve a huge expense, either, just the ability to showcase what you have in the best possible manner.

3. I would say no. I've seen professional looking amateur haunts and crappy looking professional ones. The elements don't define the haunt, but they can certainly define your opinion of it:jol:

4 and 5 - I'll answer these together. What makes a haunt professional is the intent to run it as a business, which means registering the haunt with the city/state/Feds as a business, hiring actors, paying taxes, charging entrance fees, acquiring and paying for all appropriate licenses, paying rent if it's in a leased facility, paying royalties for use of music, hiring costumers and makeup artists as needed, and hopefully making a profit. I'm sure I've missed a few items in that list.

There are amateur haunts that solicit donations for charity or other purposes, but that does not make them professional. It just means they're asking for money without being accountable as a business would be. The classic defining element distinguishing "professional" from "amateur" does indeed tend to be money, but I think it's entirely mistaken to say a professional does what he does solely for money. I've seen many a Halloween special where haunt professionals were interviewed and they almost always express how much they enjoy and love what they do. As RWB noted, many professionals started with a hobby or interest out of love for it or just for fun, and eventually became good enough to make money doing what they love to do.


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## Buzz (Aug 26, 2011)

I think you are going to have trouble with your research paper unless you stick to strict definitions of "amateur" and "professional".

Even if an amateur haunt "seems" professional, it is still an amateur haunt.

I find the distinction pretty easy, yet its not a fair description of the quality of the haunt. Like Roxy said....


RoxyBlue said:


> I've seen professional looking amateur haunts and crappy looking professional ones.


For me...


If the haunt is done for profit, like Kim's Krypt or Bennet's Curse, then its a professional haunt. I expect a higher quality of props, detail, and scare.
If the haunt is free or for charity, then its an amateur haunt and I am much more forgiving about my expectations.


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## nunviolence (Oct 14, 2014)

I just need people's opinions, I will be comparing them to the actually definitions of both words in regards to scare trails. I've been asking many people to see what they consider professional, which is why I worded the questions the way that I did. Sometimes you don't really know all of the behinds the scene stuff, so I want to know what people think from the outside looking in, so to speak.


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## autumnghost (Sep 12, 2009)

Cool idea for a paper. I think it would be cool to read when you're done. Here are my opinions - stress the word opinions.

1. What makes a haunt seem "amateurish"?

Blow up displays. A lack of thought in how things go together. Obvious lack of pride in the work. One sloppily carved/painted tombstone does not a haunt make. Also those spider webs in a bag if they're just glopped on and not strung out until they look real.

2. What makes a haunt seem "professional"?

Details. Details. Details. It doesn't have to be anything expensive or fancy. The right atmosphere with dead tree limbs, creepy carved pumpkins and strategically placed spider webs if they're lit right and have a good background music can send chills up your spine. It's always clear when someone's taken the time to do things right. 

3. Do effects play a role in classifying a haunt?

Effects definitely play a role. I think it goes back to the details. Again, you don't have to spend a ton of money. 

4. If a person makes a haunt for money, is the haunt considered professional or amateur?

I don't think taking money makes the haunt professional. Professional in my mind means a business license, insurance, marketing and all the other stuff that goes into a regular business.

5. If a person makes a haunt for fun, is the haunt considered professional or amateur?

Amateur because none of the things I've mentioned in #4 have taken place. But professional-looking is different than "professional".


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## Troll Wizard (May 3, 2012)

_*Interesting paper your doing......

1. What makes a haunt "amateurish"?

I think there are two meanings to this question. You could be meaning cheap or inexpensive in decorating. The other meaning could be as an amateur haunt or non-professional. If your meaning cheap, well there are those people who can't afford much but still put out something to decorate with. It could be something from a dollar store, or thrift store that they've purchased. Does that make their haunt any less than someone else who can spend a lot of money on better props. People decorate with what they can afford. That doesn't always mean they are cheap. Some don't have the money to purchase the next big thing for Halloween, but they at least put something out. Everyone at one point started out small and then over time built on that. I think the term non-professional or amateur would be better, than amateurish.

2. What makes a haunt seem "professional"?

To me a professional haunt is one where admission is charged and I'm expecting something for my money. Disneyland, Knot's Berry Farm, and Universal theme parks would be what I call professional. There are other local haunts that I would think that come under that catagory, again charging for admission to get in. Props that interact with people, live actors, realistic prop displays, and that they work and work well. Pinpoint lighting to enhance the effect of what is being displayed. Music and having props interact with the music. Detail to little things, such as makeup, hair, and costuming. Having the ability to play on one's fears so to bring out that blood curdling scream that professional haunts can do.

3. Do "effects" play a role in classifying a haunt?

Now if your meaning "Special Effects" then yes they do play a very important role in a haunt today, more than ever. Normally the more money you can spend on a effect the better the haunt. But that is not always the case. Effects can be something a little as a blood spill, or a pattern on a wall. Fog, and lighting can be considered effects. Music, and the way a prop works in conjunction with the scare. A lot of these things can be done without spending tons of money and still can create a great haunt. So usually the better the effect the better the haunt. But you don't always have to have working mechanisms to have a great effect. If your going to a Disneyland or one of the other major haunts, people will expect the best! There can be some really good effects in lesser known haunts in local areas where someone lives as well. I think a lot depends on what kind of money can be spent to create good effects or not.

4. If a person makes a haunt for money, is the haunt considered "professional" or "amateur"?

Well I would say if your taking money for admission, then you would be considered a "professional". No matter how big or small you are, receiving money for a service is usually considered a being professional. Non-profit haunts that take money for charity I think can also be considered professional in a way depending on the type of haunt it is. They are receiving money for a service rendered, but that money goes for a charity or to help someone in need. Can amateur haunts be considered pros, well I don't think so because then they would loose that standing as a amateur haunt by accepting money. Even accepting cans of food for a food drive can be considered a from of money in exchange for a service. Now in terms of what is a professional looking haunt or a non-professional haunt (amateur) is I think....in the eye of the beholder.

5. If a person makes a haunt for fun, is the haunt considered "professional" or "amateur"?

A haunt made for fun only is just that, a fun haunt. Consider it to be an amateur haunt. Even though the haunt can be really great in design and function with great effects it would still be looked at as non-professional. And as most of those have stated earlier, a professional looking haunt is not always considered to be professional. And not all amateur haunts would be considered to be called amateurish either.

The majority of haunts today are in someone's yard or backyard. They are scary hayrides, barns, and creatures along a trail in the woods. They are schools and churches, (although most don't do haunts anymore, but harvest festivals). They are grandparents who put a cardboard ghost or black cats in the window and hand out candy, they are people who dress up and celebrate at haunted parties. They are people who go to pumpkin patches and purchase that special pumpkin to carve and put a candle inside to frighten away evils spirits. They are the hundreds of kids who on one special night of the year, go "Trick or Treating" with their parents or friends.

All of these things are what makes us do the things we do for this one night of the year. It doesn't really make any difference if your a pro or not, it's what one does to create a haunt no matter how small or how big. We all contribute in some way or another to make this one night special for all who partake. That night is Halloween! :jol: 
*_


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## Rahnefan (May 1, 2009)

Tricky. There are pro designers and artists and craftsmen/women who don't charge anything, for various reasons. Say maybe it's a display rather than a walkthrough, or if it's simply done for the love of Hallowe'en.

Edit: you might get more mileage classifying the haunter as either amateur or experienced or pro (=haunts for $) but the haunt as either free, pay, or charity, something like that.


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## Mr_Chicken (Nov 26, 2008)

I draw the line at whether a haunt charges admission. Keeps it simple.

Effects don't necessarily play a role in classifying a haunt as home or pro, but they do play a role in classifying it thematically and stylistically. For example, the type of effects you'll find in the Davis Graveyard are very different from the startle effects you'll find in a walkthrough haunt.

I've been trying to figure out what it is about the use of the word "amateur" that seems off to me, and I think it is this. There's an implication that an amateur aspires to become a professional, when, in fact, many, if not most home haunters don't intend to go in that direction. They would rather improve their _home_ haunt to the best of their abilities than turn it pro. In that way, I think "hobbyist" is closer to what a home haunter is than "amateur."

I don't think anyone gets into haunting solely for the money. It's too weird a business for that, haha.


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