# Light Pollution



## niblique71

Does anyone have a neighbor like this?? 

My neighbor across the street is an otherwise nice woman. However, She has a Lamp post type light that She leaves on 24-7, 363 days a year. She turns it off for 2 days during Halloween NOT because she is being neighborly and helping me with my ambiance, rather, she leaves town (to go to her shore home) because she doesn;t want to deal with the TOTs. It used to be a standard 60w bullb, but last year she switched to a VERY Bright flouresent light. It is Truely annoying, especially since my main night-time hangout is in my front yard patio with a piercing direct eyeball view at this eco-unfriendly, one billion Jigawatt bulb. I have approached her on sevaral occasions nicely, asking to turn it off or put it on a timer, and she says she can't because she can't find the switch. Apparently she turns it off once a year using the breaker switch in the basement. 

Now here's the rub, She has spent no less than $75,000 on home improvements in the last 5 years. She can oviously afford an electrician's bill to install a switch or timer. SHe's apparently a person of high reguard in the white collar business world, Widowed (single) and seems to be totally blowing me off in a "Power play". 

I've let it go for the last 4-5 months and have greeted her with smiles and waves as we see each other. But this is eating me to death. Not only can I not set up my halloween lighting properly every year, I have to wear sunglasses at night to sit on my beautiful patio with my coy pond lit nearby.

My questions to all of you are:

1- Does anyone else have extreme light polution?? For thier haunt or otherwise? What do you do to overcome this??

2-Has anyone else had to deal with a neighbor that just totally refused to be a socially correct with reguard to bright lights??

3- Is there anythning Legally that can be or has been done to enforce a llight pollution or neusance law?? ( that is leagal of course). I'm curious about the illegal solutions too LOL.

4- How did you deal with this if you've expirianced this?? and what was the outcome??

I'm curious about others expiriances with light pollution, not only because of my circumstances, but I think there are probably a few good stories out there. Besides I might learn how to deal with this and not go Insane.


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## Mr_Chicken

As far as your haunt goes, in the Skull and Bone Lighting Tutorial, he discusses how he dealt with a streetlight.


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## Spooky1

Can you plant a tree or bush in your lawn that would block your view of the light?


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## niblique71

Spooky1 said:


> Can you plant a tree or bush in your lawn that would block your view of the light?


 Yea I did that already. LOL I had a 17' tall Rhododendron that I stragically transplanted to help out, but it wasn't very effective. her light is so bright that I can do shadow puppets on my house at midnight.


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## DrUnK3n_PaNdA

Well I can't help but notice you don't seem to fond of her. You've exhausted asking nicely. You could always suggest she unscrews the bulb, and if that doesn't work she's clearly not listening to sense and you should talk to someone else. Ask your local police station what can be done (I'd personally say that the light is outside your bedroom window and is keeping you up at night... but if you can find a way to present this hobby to someone while still sounding mostly sane use that... and tell me how you did it.)

Just remember to call the non-emergency line and ask about your options, it's not a bad backup plan just in case you can't negotiate with your neighbor.

Just remember, you're fortunate! My light pollution comes from a street lamp that shines directly down on my haunt from about 20-25 feet away!


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## joker

If it doesn't bother her she's probably not going to be out the money to fix the problem unless there is a law or ordinance requiring her to. What would it cost to install a timer? Maybe offer to pay for it out of your own pocket.

Any neighborhood kids with a B-B gun up for extra money  .....j/k.


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## RoxyBlue

Your comment about the shadow puppets has me thinking there might be a way you could use that light to your advantage. Maybe you could suspend either moving or static items between the light and your house so you could get Halloween-themed shadows cast on the walls. We discovered this effect purely be accident in our yard last year when we noticed the bright porch light we leave on (so ToTs won't trip and they can't see me hiding just inside the door) was shining through the giant spider web we have on our porch. It cast some very neat shadows on the side of our neighbor's house.


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## tot13

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this situation because I know it's eating your guts up. This is an example of why I live in the woods. We don't have to deal with street lights out here, but our neighbors' dogs instead - some folks think it's ok to let them roam "since we don't live in town." So you buy a bigger dog . . . I don't know if there's enough money to get me to move back to town.


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## tot13

Mr_Chicken said:


> As far as your haunt goes, in the Skull and Bone Lighting Tutorial, he discusses how he dealt with a streetlight.


Thanks, Mr. Chicken, I enjoyed his article.


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## billman

We got a row of these guys..Thuja Green Giant Arborvitae Plants.


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## hedg12

This may well fall under a good neighbor or nuisance law. Call your city office & ask - they'll know who to talk to.


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## niblique71

joker said:


> If it doesn't bother her she's probably not going to be out the money to fix the problem unless there is a law or ordinance requiring her to. What would it cost to install a timer? Maybe offer to pay for it out of your own pocket.
> 
> Any neighborhood kids with a B-B gun up for extra money  .....j/k.


ROFLOL the BB gun has crossed my mind but it'd be too obvious... and not be very neighborly (or legal) in the long run. I want a socially acceptable solution even if it includes a "Gotcha"... for example... I've been mean9ing to ask the town "wanna be's" (township office) if there's a lighting law against a light that is really obnoxious. If not??? I'll put 70,000 watts of light up at her home .,... If she says turn it off?? I guesss we'll have a town lighting neusances law soon.. that will remedy the situation... BTW there is a streetlight involved too... but her light blows this xenon bulb's luminescence away..
I find it sooo silly that a neighbor wouldn't be aware of how rediculous this is... and remedy it for the peace of the neighborhood.


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## niblique71

billman said:


> We got a row of these guys..Thuja Green Giant Arborvitae Plants.


 Deer sushi here.... They would be bare sticks in the time a nascar or IRL pit crew could service your favorite driver.. Great idea though... thanks


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## niblique71

RoxyBlue said:


> Your comment about the shadow puppets has me thinking there might be a way you could use that light to your advantage. Maybe you could suspend either moving or static items between the light and your house so you could get Halloween-themed shadows cast on the walls. We discovered this effect purely be accident in our yard last year when we noticed the bright porch light we leave on (so ToTs won't trip and they can't see me hiding just inside the door) was shining through the giant spider web we have on our porch. It cast some very neat shadows on the side of our neighbor's house.


Roxy...she does turn it off for Halloween for two nights as she escapes the horrors of having to deal with the TOT's. But the halloween problem with this is that I can't set up ANY accurate lighting effects. 
This post is much more than a halloween issue although halloween was the impidous for making this post. Halloween lasts one or two evenings if I have a party. ... However, I try to enjoy my patio for 4-5 months a year. I am truely an outdoor person and spend every non-rainy night on my patio watching my coy do thier thing. I Must say that this woouldn't bother me if it was off 3-4 evenings a week. The only issue is that it is ALWAYS on... cept for two days a year. Obnoxious...


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## niblique71

hedg12 said:


> This may well fall under a good neighbor or nuisance law. Call your city office & ask - they'll know who to talk to.


 This has been the direction I have been Planning on taking.. A more legal approach?? 
I am hoping for a catch-22 situation... If there isn't a lighting or neusance law, than she can't complain about 70,000 watts of light on her home for a few hours now and again.. Or....Possibly using her home as a movie theater screen for 2-3 hours a night??? If there is a law.. then I have legal recourse without being really socially rediculous... I have come to realize that this is truely stupid... I get it....but it does matter to me... it greatly affects my daily quality of life. I still want to try a more traditional approach but with my obvious aganda, I'm fairly sure this won't work...

This post also wasn't soo much about me complaining... but to also see/ hear others sitiuations with townships or neighbors, and how they resolved them... I install landscape lighting as part of my business. and I am UBER concious for the neighbors of the home I have ben contracted to illuminate. I NEVER make neighbors ( or ANYONE)see direct light... Only refelected light. I want to see the result of the Light not the actual light itself..

Also As a former professional rock and roll musician, Lighting was also Uber important... My knowlege of lighting isn't why I am obsessed... IT's a an issue of thier (Sometimes) blatant disregard for thier neighbors and thier quality of life. Nevermind the energy waste.


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## beelce

Maybe ask her in a very friendly non-combative way, if you can install a small visor on the fixture that would shield the light away from your house, but still give her full light coverage of her yard and some of the street as well.

It would only need to be a small piece of aluminum that could be shaped and painted to match her light fixture. It could help if one of your other neighbors would also enjoy a bit of shielded light from the torch of Ms Liberty....That would give you and the coy some nice shade to relax in.

Or you could covertly "mist" the fixture's glass with a little gray spray paint.......


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## Hallowennie315

Well, personally, I think you should put in an even brighter light and shine it at her house to see how she likes it.... Ha ha, just kidding but I can see how this could be a really annoying problem!


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## niblique71

Hallowennie315 said:


> Well, personally, I think you should put in an even brighter light and shine it at her house to see how she likes it.... Ha ha, just kidding but I can see how this could be a really annoying problem!


My first task is to check with the town about a neusance law or lighting regulations. I've already spoken about this earlier in the thread. but my thinking is; if there is a law or ordinance governing lighting, I would have some legal recourse to force some action. If there isn't a law, than I'm allowed to have a bright light as well... Right?? I really don't want to go that route of flooding her house with bright lights as it may affect other neighbors that are very respectful. But believe me I have fantasies of borrowing a stage spotlight or installing some commercial halogens.

I know that this whole topic may seem very trite to many, and in some ways I agree. Her light has been on now for 5 years straight with only a few days off during halloween. It's like chinese water torture. Have you ever encountered someone with a flashlight while walking at night? They will almost always shine it in your eyes just to see what you look like. Innocent enough but it blinds you for a few minutes. This is similar to what I experiance every single day.

I DON'T want this to be an obssesion, but at this point I can't help it.

Some of the things that I've thought about before I posted this thread were:

1) ask again nicely if she can finally fix her light.

2) offer to pay for a new fixture that has either frosted glass or a hat to direct the light more downward. Pay for an electrician.

3) erect a (non living) screen of some kind, Possibly with a large note saying I had to install this because my neighbor NEVER turns off her light (over the top huh??)

4) REVENGE Once researched for legality, Install a light of my own.

5) Place a bucket or bag over the light now and again (Tresspassing issues there)

6) Form a coalition with some other neighbors and apply some gentle pressure that way, but none of my neighbors expiriance her light as intensely as I do.

7) Ask for advice, expiriances or stories from my fellow lovers of darkness (Haunt forum)

Any other suggestions that anyone may have would be very welcome.


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## Haunted Bayou

Tell her that the light only helps thieves see what they are stealing.


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## The Watcher

If you make her mad. Then she might say something about your display at Halloween. I would be nice if that doesn't work. Then what ever you do, keep it to your self. Things happen all the time.


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## tot13

beelce said:


> Maybe ask her in a very friendly non-combative way, if you can install a small visor on the fixture that would shield the light away from your house, but still give her full light coverage of her yard and some of the street as well.
> 
> It would only need to be a small piece of aluminum that could be shaped and painted to match her light fixture. It could help if one of your other neighbors would also enjoy a bit of shielded light from the torch of Ms Liberty....That would give you and the coy some nice shade to relax in.
> 
> Or you could covertly "mist" the fixture's glass with a little gray spray paint.......


That's an excellent suggestion -


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## niblique71

I've definately thought seriously about that... But it's a gold plated fixture. Anyone know how to gold plate aluminum???


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## beelce

I've got some vinyl decal material that look like gold chrome


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## Tish

Check if there is an astronomy club in your area, they might have some ideas.


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## pagan

Shame if some crazy kids ran it over with a truck.. It would have to be replaced. I can't imagine there is not an ordinance regarding a public nuisance. 
If you do decide to employ a projectile of some sort make sure the trajectory doesn't line up with your porch chair.


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## jaege

I can see that would be annoying, and I don't see this as a foolish or specious issue. It is your house after all, and you would like to enjoy it. It isn't any different than a neighbor playing really loud music late into the evening. I would have tried the nice approach like you did then a legal approach like you suggested, then I would go for the all night spots aimed at her windows.

It is times like these that I really wished being inconsiderate were painful.


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## Zurgh

niblique71 said:


> I DON'T want this to be an obssesion, but at this point I can't help it.
> 
> Some of the things that I've thought about before I posted this thread were:
> 
> 1) ask again nicely if she can finally fix her light.
> 
> 2) offer to pay for a new fixture that has either frosted glass or a hat to direct the light more downward. Pay for an electrician.
> 
> 3) erect a (non living) screen of some kind, Possibly with a large note saying I had to install this because my neighbor NEVER turns off her light (over the top huh??)
> 
> 4) REVENGE Once researched for legality, Install a light of my own.
> 
> 5) Place a bucket or bag over the light now and again (Tresspassing issues there)
> 
> 6) Form a coalition with some other neighbors and apply some gentle pressure that way, but none of my neighbors expiriance her light as intensely as I do.
> 
> 7) Ask for advice, expiriances or stories from my fellow lovers of darkness (Haunt forum)
> 
> Any other suggestions that anyone may have would be very welcome.


Do what you will...
[1&2 are so cool of you, if you can!!!) {#5 is not OK...} (Documenting ANYTHING you do for her out of your pocket/Goodness.. IE, save respets & billing Info...)
#1 & 2 are good starts, #3, 4 & 6 are good if that is your last resort & legal...
Check with the local astronimers socity (they HATE upward & BIG lighting at night) & local wildlife socitys(some critters are hurt by big lighting at night, seriously!)

Be Super/sickeningly nice... Appeal to her "Green-ergy" side...:zombie:

If you want some "bad advice" ... After all else has failed... PM an Electrician... Unoficialy! "WINK":googly:


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## debbie5

I can read a book in my bedroom by the light from my neighbor's spotlight, but it doesn't bug me as trees shield the light from my front porch , which I relax on at night.
Hmmm...you can't tell someone to shut their light off. You can show up with a box of 40 watt lightbulbs and beg her to at least make it less bright. Most fixtures are rated for 40 w bulbs anyway, and she may be creating a fire hazard. Lightbulbs can be spray painted with hi temp (barbecue) paint to shield them. The better solution is to coat the inside of the lantern glass, which I am sure she won't go for as it's ugly. Seems like you will get no where with her, as any reasonable person would have politley acquiesced already. Therefore, on to Plan B:
I'd call the city council (or whatever is similar in your place) and ask what to do, or see if you can get a law on the books limiting intrusive light. I love the comparison to having a loud stereo blasting...I'd call the council people (who are regular Joes like us) and ask about having a law passed yet also the police (in one last ditch effort) to ask if they can come with you to discuss & help intervene. I would definitley research other town's nuisance light laws (yes, there is such a thing) and craft a similar one for your town. If you have the city councilmen on board with you, they can pass it right thru. Do NOT tell them u wanna shine lights on her house in retribution. This needs to be kept very "oh pity my situation" without a whiff of retribution, or you won't get people to side with you ;they will see it as simply too-emotional, neighborhood drama. To help get the law passed, drive around at night and see if you can get addresses of people who have similar situations (i.e. live next to an auto shop, drugstore, etc), then on the weekend you can ring their doorbell & ask them to sign your petiton in support of the bill.


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## niblique71

Update!

SUCCESS!!!!!! My neighbors light is now OFF. And she has promised to repair the switch that caused it to be on full time. She's also looking into a wall mount fixture to replace the one that has the Naked bulb. I am SOOO Happy and SOOO MUCh weight has been lifted off my mind.

How it happened:
I wrote her a calm but direct letter that got my point across without being nasty or spiteful. I sent it REGISTERED MAIL after showing it to a councilman downtown. He said it was a good letter and would at least further my cause if it wasn't directly effective in solving the issue. Our town has NO Neusance law yet.

Within 1 day she wrote me back a VERY NICE letter saying that she wasn't aware how much this meant to me (Kinda wierd since I talked to her at least 20 times about it over the last 4-5 years). She also apologized and is taking action to remedy the situation. I was Extremely Grateful and verbally thanked her when I saw her the next day. She has since turned it off and it hasn't been on for two weeks now, which is more excessive than I was requesting but I'm thankful nontheless. There IS PEACE in the neighborhood and a little less light pollution in our town. Apparently she is an extremely busy woman that works excessive hours and this just wasn't on her front burner. I'm just happy that this wasn't an act of spite on her part, She was just to busy to think about it. Thanks to everyone and thier support!!!!


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## debbie5

(the clouds part, rays of sunshine poke through and all the demons in Hell start to sing...)


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## Spooky1

Glad to hear you had a peaceful resolution!


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## niblique71

debbie5 said:


> (the clouds part, rays of sunshine poke through and all the demons in Hell start to sing...)


 You have No Idea how nice it was to sit out there tonight..... Tiki torches going... No shadow puppets....and I could actually see the stars... SOOO COOL..... Now I'm itching to test my LED Lights for a night or two... Thanks for your advice


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## pagan

Glad to hear things worked out. I am also happy to hear there doesn't seem to be any Ill will on either side.


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## corey872

Congrats on the solution. I think some people just can't take a hint. Though I think I have been on both sides of the fence...

The neighbor behind us has a good habit of turning on his gazillion watt porch light and releasing the hounds (his two dogs) every time my wive and I go out to use the hot tub. So a peaceful starry night of crickets and gently rustling wind is always turned into a 6500K electric blue light show complete with incessantly yelping mutts. My reply has been to turn on the dual 500 watt halogen spot lights aimed at his bedroom.

Then the neighbor to the other side is always hinting that 'we' should do something to fix the fence between our two yards. Meaning his mutts always get out and he would like a new fence. But, alas, I have no dogs and no other fence connecting to my house, so I have no real interest in helping him kennel his dogs, so I always pass it off with the usual 'one of these days...'


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## jaege

Excellent. I love hearing about a happy ending.


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## debbie5

Im glad it all worked out. Maybe we need a Neighbor section, as we seem to all have problems..LOL. My neighboor now turns on his drip irrigation hose for hours, and instead of it going into his garden, it runs off the weed barrier (who uses weed barrier in a home garden?) and into my gravel driveway where it runs ALLL DOWN my driveway (120 feet) and into my cellar. I am having to keep the dehumidifier on 24-7 due to HIS water coming into MY basement. Ths guy is such a blow-hard, pompous, perpetua-drunk jerk that I can't even speak to him about ANYthing..I have begged hubby to talk to him and he's scared too...LOL.


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## niblique71

debbie5 said:


> Im glad it all worked out. Maybe we need a Neighbor section, as we seem to all have problems..LOL. My neighboor now turns on his drip irrigation hose for hours, and instead of it going into his garden, it runs off the weed barrier (who uses weed barrier in a home garden?) and into my gravel driveway where it runs ALLL DOWN my driveway (120 feet) and into my cellar. I am having to keep the dehumidifier on 24-7 due to HIS water coming into MY basement. Ths guy is such a blow-hard, pompous, perpetua-drunk jerk that I can't even speak to him about ANYthing..I have begged hubby to talk to him and he's scared too...LOL.


Well depending on your topography, perhaps we could dam it up and send it back to his property. You could create a drywell sump system. Get a pump and send it "airborn style" back to his home. It's his water and your just returning it to its rightfull owner. Your explanation??? when his overflow doesn't run into your yard he won't get it back. I'll bring my caterpiller excavator and we'll have a party. Even better....Recover his water in the same underground reservoir and save it to water your plants for free ...Possibly using just gravity.


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## Goodwitch

Can you spell BB gun?


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## Goodwitch

I wish i could do something about my new neighbors. They installed so many intense driveway and post lights I am afraid planes are going to start landing. They lit the whole street up


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## Just Whisper

My next door neighbors have 2 big motion sensor lights on their garage that point directly into my bedroom and my front yard. I can't ask them to turn them off during the year so I just keep my bathroom door closed at night which keeps the light out. And during Halloween night I only have to ask and they turn them off for the evening. They like my haunt so that helps. My point is...sometimes you just have to ask.


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## Thisaintmayberry

> but my thinking is; if there is a law or ordinance governing lighting, I would have some legal recourse to force some action.


I came into this post late (probationary newbie). I'm glad to read your situation was peacefully resolved. For future reference and for those of you who mentioned similar problems - Yes, there is a law; it's called *The Constitution*. Being in the law enforcement business, I'm rather familiar with it. It says - among other things - that you have the right to "quiet and peaceful enjoyment" of your property. The small claims court process would be the avenue to redress this violation, absent the more preferrable mutual agreement method.

You would not believe the number of daily neighbor disputes one can get involved in. I'm really glad to hear your's resolved amicably.


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## jdsteel82

I need to make my Fiance read this thread. We just bought our house in April, and while it was in its previous foreclosure a few outside lights were vandalized (one motion with 2 150w floods, and a patio light). I guess the patio light was left on and shines into the neighbors kids bedroom, and the flood lights looked to have been shining into at least two neighbors back yards. I fixed the patio light, and my fiance wants me to fix the flood lights, but I tell here it just wouldn't be nice since I can't really find a way to make them effective, but not a nuisance.


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