# Cauldron Creep help



## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

I've been reading through various threads and blogs on cauldron creeps and feel inspired to make this my project for next year. In doing research on this a couple thoughts came to mind. While I'm still in the conceptualization phase I thought it best to bounce these ideas by you for your feed back.

These ideas come from picking up a pole and mimicking the motion of stirring. Paying attention to body position and motion. 

The first observation was the position of my legs. While one was bent and pointing straight forward, my other leg was further back and at a 45 degree angle out from the first. The classic cauldron creep has both legs parallel as in the way a golfer stands at a tee. I'm wondering how difficult would it be to modify the classic PVC structure so that one leg was positions to the rear and at an angle as in the natural stance that I took when mimicking the motions. And would this be just as stable as the classic design or would I be getting myself in a world of headache by trying to shift things around.

The second observation was the motion of the stirring stick and the upper hand and arm. From the various youtube videos of cauldron creeps, it looks like the rotation of the stick in the pot creates a natural up and down motion in the arm. Up as it rotates closer to the figure and down as it rotates away. All of the photos I've seen of the cauldron motors have them rotating on a plane parrallel with the ground. I was thinking that this up and down motion could be exaggerated further by inclining the side of the motor closest to the figure up a little, but not so much that the stick would pop out of the holding cup. Not sure if this is worth doing or not, and whether there is enough natural play in the PVC to handle the exaggerated motion. Which by the way leads to the next and final question (for now).

And that is if anyone can suggest a practical alternation to the PVC elbow joint that would give a little more flexibility for the joints of the upper arm while maintaining its natural posture (i.e. like a spring with a 90 degree bend in it).

Would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the above ideas and whethet they could be accomplish though a few simple down home modifications without turning this into an MIT engineering project. I might be over thinking this, and figured this would be a good time to toss these ideas out to you before I spent too much time on this.

I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts and experiences with building cauldron creeps.


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## SuperCreep31 (Nov 22, 2009)

Well with your leg idea I actually tried that this year and first it made it was too unstable and the swaying wasn't right. Also, almost nobody looks at the legs because they are usually hidden by the cauldron. The second one about the motor idea i'm not sure about but it's an interesting concept. Maybe you could give it a try?


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## GhoulishCop (Sep 25, 2009)

Intrepid,

Having built a Cauldron Creep this year, I can say I wouldn't stray too far from the original plan, particularly as it relates to the stirring motion.

I didn't notice an up-and-down motion with the arms as it's more of an in-and-out motion. What you're seeing as up-and-down may just be an optical illusion with the video. Because the motor is going in a circular motion the "marionette" arm simply follows the motion of the stick while the fixed arm provides a point of stability.

It's like a 3-legged stool with the legs providing two points and the stick as it rests in the PVC cap a third point. It's not weighing down the prop, otherwise the motor would bind, but helps keep the prop standing in the proper position.

You have to take care when positioning the fixed arm as it can bind because of the spinning motion of the motor. I would also think changing the plane of the motor would put additional undue strain on it.

I guess the question I have is _why_ you want to change it?

Rich


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Why? That's easy. I'm a natural tinkerer and was curious about other possibilities. But it sounds like sticking to the classic design is the best way to avoid headaches. This is the experienced feedback I needed and is much appreciated. Thanks!


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

On to the build now. The needed PVC piping and various joints were picked up today. Cutting the tubing to size will begin this weekend. The Skeleton that will be donating its parts to he project is a 5' posable one that was picked up for $25 in the post season sales bin at CVS. The basic framing I assume is pretty quick work. The cauldron on the other hand were it seems a fair amount of creativity and effort is required. Is this a fair assessment of the road ahead? ScareFX's tutorial on converting a 55gal drum into a cauldron may be the path forward for me. Not sure yet. So many decisions to make.


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## niblique71 (Dec 2, 2009)

The up and down movement you see in some creeps is due to the fact that the "Plane" of the circular motion is NOT aligned with the position of the "Static" (Stick holding) hand. It's a tilted Snowcone effect. (Ok... Use some imagination)... So when the wiper motor comes closer to the "Creep" the arm seems to go up and the "Creep" rock backwards slightly... This can be exxagerated by prepositioning the "Spot" of the upper stationary hand. In my opionion it is a very desirable effect.


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Niblique, that's it! That creepy up and down motion of the upper hand when placed off center from the rotation of the wiper motor and with it the rocking motion of the rest of the body.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Well...I am a big believer in taking a previous design and adding something new to it. It sounds to me like you want to experiment yourself. My only suggestion would be to build the armature and experiment with the movement until you are happy with it. At this stage replacing an arm here or a head there is not that big of a deal. Once you are happy with the movement then start working on how you want to add the details. Have fun!


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## cyclonejack (Jun 29, 2011)

I did a stirring witch prop, but used the cauldron creep method of construction. I would also have to say that there is indeed a very slight "up and down" motion associated with the rotation of the stirring stick. I have a video on my YouTube page illustrating the construction, but on this note, there is some extraneous motion in the framework of the prop associated with the circular motion of the motors crankarm. Its visible, and I make note of this in the video. See here-


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Cyclonejack, I notice how you reframed the lever for the head motion. Instead of protruding out of the back it looks like you angled it down to the ground to be less obtrusive. Nice. Is that your innovation?


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

heresjohnny said:


> Well...I am a big believer in taking a previous design and adding something new to it. It sounds to me like you want to experiment yourself. My only suggestion would be to build the armature and experiment with the movement until you are happy with it. At this stage replacing an arm here or a head there is not that big of a deal. Once you are happy with the movement then start working on how you want to add the details. Have fun!


Good thought, might just do that. As long as the joints are screwed and not glue, swapping out parts should be relatively easly during the framing stage.

Based on the feed back so far, I'm thinking the golfers stance is necessary for a nice up and down motion. And the other stance probably results in the figure twisting instead. SuperCreep31, was that your experience with the other stance (i.e. a twisting motion)?


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## cyclonejack (Jun 29, 2011)

Intrepid said:


> Cyclonejack, I notice how you reframed the lever for the head motion. Instead of producing out of the back it looks like you angled it down to the ground to be less obtrusive. Nice. Is that your innovation?


 No, not an original innovation unfortunately. Just not that clever myself!


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## SuperCreep31 (Nov 22, 2009)

yup! exactly! it twists real weird and it just didn't work for me so I jumped back on the original plan and the results were rewarding... about 4 neighbors asking for their own


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## Lilly (Jun 13, 2006)

I wouldn't mind making one of these myself/ 
Cyclone do you have a how to or what did you make the armature that bends (that purple looking arm) out of. or what is the linkage?


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

SuperCreep31 said:


> yup! exactly! it twists real weird and it just didn't work for me so I jumped back on the original plan and the results were rewarding... about 4 neighbors asking for their own


Awesome!

Hoping to cut pipes and beginning framing this weekend. Wiper motor has been ordered. This part of the build I look forward too. The cauldron on the other hand...well, that could prove the speed bump to the whole project. Will deal with that in turn.

Will keep you posted on the progress. Once again, all the tips and advise here have been a huge help in setting this off in the right direction! I should also mension the following websites too: the Devils workshop, Mr Jinkles, and ScareFX, plus Pumpkin5's thread on her build and many other discussion threads and YouTube video.

Hope I do you guys and gals proud with this!


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Lilly said:


> I wouldn't mind making one of these myself/
> Cyclone do you have a how to or what did you make the armature that bends (that purple looking arm) out of. or what is the linkage?


Lilly, these links will get you started. But be cautioned, once you start it becomes an obsession.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutorials-step-step/108421-mr-jingles-cauldron-creep-part-one.html

http://devilschariot.blogspot.com/2009/08/cauldron-creep-how-to-or-how-it-was.html

http://www.scarefx.com/project_witch_cauldron.html


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## cyclonejack (Jun 29, 2011)

Lilly said:


> I wouldn't mind making one of these myself/
> Cyclone do you have a how to or what did you make the armature that bends (that purple looking arm) out of. or what is the linkage?


The video is kinda the tutorial, just without the exact measurements. I didnt have measurements to begin with either, just eyeballed the approximate size and followed the angles of what others were building at the time. The linkages I used were simply zip-ties that looped through holes I drilled through the pvc to make the marionette arm. The purple arm is 1/2 inch pvc fed through pieces of pool noodle.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2012)

Intrepid... I'm glad I found this thread. I'm building a Caudron Creep for2013 too, and had the exact same goals in terms of exaggerating the arm/shoulder movements. I too have noticed that some versions look fairly "static" aside from the stirring stick and head-bob. Others seem to capture additional movements that add another layer of creepy realism. I'm pretty sure Niblique nailed it with his snow-cone concept. Let me know how you make out. I probably won't break ground on this until the new year.


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

The frame was completed in November, then the rest of the year got in the way. Now time for the last minute frantic rush to complete! :-O

Angling the motor did create the desired effect of exaggerating the arm movement. Also made a few other innovations to the design and will post a video.


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Here's a video of the basic mechanics to this cauldron creep.
The areas where I strayed from the standard cauldron was in placing the right leg farther back than the left, and the level mechanism for the head for less protrusion in the back.


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

P.S. how do I create embedded YouTube links?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2012)

Nice job!


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> P.S. how do I create embedded YouTube links?


You were probably logged into your YouTube account when you copied the URL for the video. For some reason, it won't embed properly when you do it that way. I did a search for the video using its title, then copied and pasted that URL into your post. It's fixed now


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Here's the finished Caldron Creep


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## madmomma (Jul 1, 2009)

You did a great job! I'm going to rework my stirring witch for next year, making the head movement lever vertical rather than horizontal as you did. Mine stuck out too much so I made her a hunchback to hide the lever. I like your motion...cool.


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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)




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## Intrepid (Nov 24, 2011)

Another halloween over. Time to get started with next years build.


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

He turned out well!


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