# Any Ideas???



## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:Hey Peeps, I am in a quandary. I am trying to find something that will stiffen cheesecloth, but not starch or glue. The reason being "not starch or glue" is because I want to put it outside, and as soon as glue stiffened cheesecloth gets in NC humidity, it gets limp and soggy. I need something that can be on my covered porch, but won't get soggy if there is rain and the guaranteed humidity that is the NC curse. I was thinking maybe clear acrylic paint or fiberglass resin because I know those two things will harden, but I'm not sure if they won't be too heavy and clump up the cheesecloth. I thought I'd ask if anyone had any experience achieving the look before I start testing. I basically want to make some ghosts that are actually caught in "fly" mode, so I am trying to achieve the look of movement. Much like a dementor from Harry Potter, but white, not black. (I really would like them to glow like my other ghosts)


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## PrettyGhoul (Oct 7, 2005)

Hi Pumpkin5....maybe a UV waterproofing spray and finish with a spray on fabric stiffener. I haven't tried this together but both are inexpensive if you want to test first. 

https://www.amazon.com/Forcefield-P...502638326&sr=8-3&keywords=uv+waterproof+spray

https://www.amazon.com/Aleenes-fabric-stiffener-draping-liquid/dp/B00178QQ02

The links aren't endorsements just examples. I was just thinking about what you were trying to achieve and thought this might work. Hope this helps.


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## MichaelMyers666 (Nov 5, 2016)

If you're going to get it to glow in a blacklight, use some of the Party City Hair Color (spray) and then some clear Krylon spray on top of that, shouldn't effect the black light glow. Matte would be better than gloss, as to not make it look plastic. 

I made a cheesecloth ghost this year (Nebraska gets pretty humid too) but didn't stiffen it. I guess we'll see how it works out, I kind of want it to "blow in the wind" a little bit.


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## Doc-Dead-Inside (Aug 12, 2013)

Have you considered outdoor mod podge, or tripple thick? It wouldn't be entirely water proof, but it would be water "resistant". You could additionally water proof it with some clear enamel, or urethane.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:Thank you PG, I had thought of putting a sealer on the cheesecloth once it was stiffened, but I have not yet, so I will give that a try. I just worry that with the size of these dementors (ghosts) the fabric will get weighted down. Thanks for your suggesting too, MM666, I actually have not tried that Hairspray, I will give it a go. Several years ago, I did stiffen the heads of some ghosts, but left the bodies "stiffener free" so the body would blow in the breeze. Worked pretty good but the heads lost their rigidness after a week. And these guys are going to be much, much bigger and I wanted to get the look of them flying by.
Something like this, but of course, white....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0F27B16D61B3059D7A7F0F27B16D61B3059&FORM=VIRE
I have never used outdoor ModPodge DDI, but it's worth a try. I guess the key to whatever I do is making sure to waterproof it. The dementor shape in the video above it super cool. I like how it looks like it's moving even though it is perfectly still. Thank you sincerely for all the feedback and suggestions, you guys ROCK!


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:I'm going to try the things that you guys suggested, but I also may try making an armature out of wire, maybe chicken wire and just sewing the fabric to that. Although it won't be as wonderful as fabric draped in motion, it should work okay. I'll get back to you with some pictures of what I try.


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## Lord Homicide (May 11, 2012)

I was going to mention fiberglass resin as well. Do a test piece with it to see what the workability is going to be like. I can't remember if there's a way to make that stuff less thick or what.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

Lord Homicide said:


> I was going to mention fiberglass resin as well. Do a test piece with it to see what the workability is going to be like. I can't remember if there's a way to make that stuff less thick or what.


:jol:Yes, you can with a couple of things but I was going to use acetone. It will lessen the strength of the finished product but I really just want some cool looking, flowing ghosts. I'm going to try this at the shop and maybe hang the ghost head first so the body hangs down and cures out with the body billowing out. I can use wires to hold certain sections out as it dries. I will give it a try this week and post some pictures. By the way, I love the smell of fiberglass resin!!! (I know, I'm weird):googly:


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## Lizzyborden (Sep 7, 2012)

My first thought was to stiffen with starch and then apply a clear acrylic spray. But now I'm wondering if the dampness of the acrylic spray would make the starch lose its effect. Interested to see what method you decide upon.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Polyeurathan kills the the UV effect of treated cheesecloth, tried that once before. Back in the day krough used to use paverpol, it stiffens cloth very hard and is waterproof.

I use stiffy, or stiffen from Michaels on ghosts, and being from Central Florida I think I got you beat when it comes to humidity. To hold form with cheesecloth, especially when treated to glow in UV, I have found that you can use any form you want, just paint it flat black and lay cheesecloth soaked in Stiffen on the form. It will adhere to the form and stiffen up. Then you can drap additional cheesecloth where desired, with a elmers glue or more Stiffy.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:That paverpol stuff looks interesting. Here is my first try of anything, and I am pretty stoked. The bad thing about what I used is, it kills the UV effect as heresjohnny said, but I am thinking I can spray it with Wildfire and fix my glow issue. This is one coat of automotive clear paint and it's stiff as a board. 
I'm kind of thrilled.
ghosting (2) by Jana Snipes, on Flickr
I realize that bigger pieces may require a little wire armature or some support with fish line, but the general look is of a swooping ghost. Yay!!!


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## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

Looking good, P5!


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## Hairazor (Mar 13, 2012)

Looks like you are on the right track


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## bobzilla (Nov 13, 2008)

Nice job, P5er!


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## Lord Homicide (May 11, 2012)

Looks like it'll work P-51


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:I'm very hopeful with the current progress, my weekend is full so no ghost making this weekend, but I want to try to make a couple of ghosts next week, and get my painter to spray it when I have a couple complete. With the piece I tried in the previous pictures, I actually just took the cheesecloth and dipped it in the clear then hung it to dry as you would laundry. I will just have to play around with it....with an armature...without an armature...and see what works best. I will take photos and share the information as I make conclusions. Thanks for all the input and suggestions. You guys ROCK!


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

Lord Homicide said:


> I was going to mention fiberglass resin as well. Do a test piece with it to see what the workability is going to be like. I can't remember if there's a way to make that stuff less thick or what.


"fiberglass resin" is a polyester laminating resin, it gives you a fair bit of rigidity, but it would also make your cheesecloth a good bit heavier, and, depending on how heavily you apply it, rigid to the point of being brittle. It will give you a minor bit of flexibility, but not a whole lot. Part of the challenge would be the application of the resin. When mixed with the needed catalyst, it's like a thick able syrup, and you have a limited time to get it applied before it hardens. Spraying it would be a bit of a nightmare (I'm referring to spraying the actual resin itself), and cleaning the spray gun would be an ulcer looking for a place to happen. An HVLP (high Volume, Low Pressure) sprayer would only hold enough to do a couple of square feet at a time. If you want to use a paint roller, then your cloth needs to be laid out on a table or horizontal surface big enough to support the whole panel. Be warned, the chemical reaction of the hardener/ catalyst with the resin makes it get hot, and the fumes are or can be both toxic and flammable. So you need to work in a well vented area, with no source of ignition, and, hopefully, limited heat or sunlight, and be able to let the treated cloth sit for at least a full day before it's moved or handled. Once you have treated your cloth, the panels, as I mentioned earlier will be a good bit heavier, and also pretty rigid, so you need to be able to store them in a safe, protected area when they are not in use. You also need to keep in mind how you plan to adhere or fix them to the supports for your haunt. With the added weight, you can't just use a simple stabler or tacks to hold it up, the broader the support, the longer they will last.

With all that said, why do you need or want the cloth to be stiff or more rigid?
If it's to keep if from blowing around, maybe adding some weights fastened to areas along the bottom of the cloth? That would allow you to have air move through it, have some more natural movement of the cloth without the fight of resin or paint breaking or flaking off when the cloth flexes.
Just thoughts from the cheap seats.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:^Uhm, I don't know if you watched the video of the BLACK dementor, but that is sort of the look I was going for...only white...or rather...UV reactive.... I don't expect to get much if any movement once I stiffen the cheesecloth, but having it rigid is pretty important. I agree with you, I think polyester resin will be too heavy.... I have not experimented with it yet...but in the prior crafts I've done with resin, it is way heavy. My goal is to use the cheesecloth as the base, and add something that I can effectively "sculpt" into ghostly apparitions with the cloth held in a way, as to mimic movement. (much like the dementor in the video) I own and run an automotive body shop, so we paint cars every single day and we have two down draft paint booths at my disposal. Thank you for referencing how toxic it can be, to breathe resin fumes, I would be fully masked and clothed with a respirator and paint suit. Trust me, safety first at all times. The clear coat has proven firm and thick enough to warrant more testing.... I am super excited about my clearcoat ghosts.....I think they may be the answer to my particular quest. Thank you do much for your input.


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## PrettyGhoul (Oct 7, 2005)

Post an update when you can OK Pumpkin5? I'd love to see. Also a lot of great ideas on Pins and Things video, I hadn't run across them before and ended up watching a few.


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol:^I definitely will PG, life has just gotten in the way these past two weeks. I hope to get started on it Labor Day weekend since I have Monday off. I will post pictures and update everyone on the stiff ghost quest.


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## Jack Mac (Nov 28, 2012)

Great information so far in this thread. Thanks P5 for sharing the link to the black dementor; it's now on my to-do list . What brand of clear coat did you use on your first test?


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## Pumpkin5 (Aug 8, 2010)

:jol: We use PPG paint, waterbourne, but the clear coat is still a solvent based. The number is DC4000 and then a hardener no. DCH3085 I promise to post what I make a full ghost or dementor, and how to do it. Though it won't be as easy for everyone as it will be for me since it's the nature of my business, still, it's a great way to add rigidity to a ghost prop. (and it's not something that will get limp and floppy in humidity) Thanks Jack for the feedback, this has been an arduous journey for me to make stiff ghosts.


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## Jack Mac (Nov 28, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing your progress on this one, P5.


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## goneferal (Sep 8, 2010)

I use clear matte spraypaint on my props. It wont stand up cheesecloth all by itself, but it really helps retain shape and we usually get some rain and it seems to hold up to that.


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