# Voltage vs Amps



## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

As most of you know, I'm ignorant when it comes to electronics. 

If somethings uses a 12 VAC or 12 VDC adaptor, can I just cut the wires on the motor that lead to that circle plug thang and hook up a pocket type rectangular 12 v battery instead?


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

Sickie Ickie said:


> As most of you know, I'm ignorant when it comes to electronics.
> 
> If somethings uses a 12 VAC or 12 VDC adaptor, can I just cut the wires on the motor that lead to that circle plug thang and hook up a pocket type rectangular 12 v battery instead?


what!? you cant hook up ac to dc without a adapter ....can hook up at 12vdc to a battery though .......but not a 12vac motor to battery......i belive thats right correct me if im wrong


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## BuriedAlive (Jun 8, 2006)

If the motor is 12VDC, than, yes, you could wire it to a 12V battery. If it is AC, then the answer is no.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Ah. I see...

I have a motor I want to use from a table top fiber optic tree. The challenge is it is 12 vac and I want to run it from a pocket type rectangular 12 vdc battery. what can I do, or is it a lost cause?


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Is there some type of in between I can use to change ac to dc?


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

a adapter like you use for nintendo answer machines phones etc 110vac to 12v dc


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

I wasn't as clear as I should have been I guess. Is there something to change the 12 vac to 12 vdc so I can use batteries?..or did you answer that and I didn't get it?


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

Sickie Ickie said:


> I wasn't as clear as I should have been I guess. Is there something to change the 12 vac to 12 vdc so I can use batteries?..or did you answer that and I didn't get it?


to change 12vac to run off 12 vdc i never heard of anything like that ....maybe somone else can shed some more light on this ...sorry i couldnt help but i have seen a wallwart or what ever you wanna call em adpater etc with 9 volt pulg in......only thing even crosses my mind is a power invertor dc to ac for 12 volt systems on cars


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks anyway Kryptonoff. I appreciate you trying.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Those tabletop fibreoptic trees do use a 12 ac to dc adapter. The motor runs off of 12 volts DC..so, yes, you could use a 12 DC batterey, provided it has enough current (AMPS) to run it. The listing of the Output DC and current should be labled on the adapter the tree usually uses. Just make sure your battery is capable of reproducing that current.


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

i edited post you might not of seen but a power invertor is only thing i can thing of


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

OH, you do have an AC motor in there 
(fiber optic tree)..I just remembered, I have the same thing! LOL! There are no AC batteries....so the answer is no. Sorry bout that!


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Heyya Doc. I'm thinking there's more than one type of tree motor?

On the back of the pot where the adapter plugs in it has written 12 VAC .

The motor itself that I pulled has written on it this:

Synchronous Motor
42TYZ-12
12V-50/60Hz 1.5-2W 5-6r/min

Knowing nothing about this stuff, I'm assuming that means 5-6 revelutions per min. 

Does the 12V mean VDC and it only used the VAC to run the halogen light that was also in there?


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

Sickie Ickie said:


> Heyya Doc. I'm thinking there's more than one type of tree motor?
> 
> On the back of the pot where the adapter plugs in it has written 12 VAC .
> 
> ...


on back of pot says 12vac then its ac motor how many power sources does this tree have and what are they


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Ah...I understand.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

I just hate the idea of running electrical cords all over the ground. :-/


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

ooops i edited again does it take batteries and have a plug in ?


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

No place for batteries. If it did I'd automatically think that I'd be okay with using them


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

i was curious if it was batteries for light and ac for motor ....i dunno this tree so i was just asking


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## Ugly Joe (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm pretty sure your motor is AC...if I'm remembering hertz correctly (fat chance)...

The 50/60Hz means it wants the electricity to cycle 50/60 times a second, so that's an AC motor.


Unless I'm entirely wrong...if I am, someone please step up a give me a dope slap?


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks Kryptonoff. lol I always feel so inferior when asking stuff I know very little about!


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

only hrtz i understand are tuning freq. for sub enclosures


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Heyya Joe. If it helps, I'll slap you anyway?!? PPPP

I appreciate the insight! Thanks!


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

Sickie Ickie said:


> Thanks Kryptonoff. lol I always feel so inferior when asking stuff I know very little about!


dont be like that have question ask ...people learn with these threads i do all the time ...when ever have a ? post it ....


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## SpectreTTM (Aug 22, 2005)

Sickie Ickie said:


> Heyya Doc. I'm thinking there's more than one type of tree motor?
> 
> On the back of the pot where the adapter plugs in it has written 12 VAC .
> 
> ...


When you see "50/60Hz " it means ac.

There are many sites that have both AC & DC adapters.

Here is a nice site.

http://www.candhsales.biz/cgi-bin/shop991/shop.pl/page=start_shopping.htm

Search FOR "Adapters"

I'm pretty sure Low Voltage lighting transformes are 12AC as well


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## Ugly Joe (Jul 13, 2006)

Ya' know...I know just enough to put myself in the hospital...

If it wasn't for my wife, I'd probably be there much more often (thanks honey!)


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

:-d


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Hospitals ain't much fun none.
Halloween's paint such fun some!


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## gmacted (Jan 18, 2006)

The term "Synchronous" motor implies that it is AC. SpectreTTM is correct. You will need an AC-AC adapter as opposed to an AC-DC adapter.


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## .id. (Jul 3, 2006)

What does the amperage on the wall transformer? That would give you an idea what you would have to supply from batteries. It looks like the motor draws about 125-170mA. How many watts is the light? I suspect that it may be in the 15-20W range which is going to put your current draw in the +1A range. You can run this off of batteries using an modified inverter circuit (that kryptonoff mentioned) such as:
http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_ckt30_1.htm
-or-
http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_ckt8.htm
and using a 1:1 center tapped transformer (instead of the 1:12 that it calls for). The thing about doing this is that you will have to have a battery big enough to be able to supply the current that the motor and the light will take (perhaps a 7200mAh UPS battery). It might prove to be more effort than you want.

Another option might be to replace the motor with a DC gearhead (such as http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-276/400400/5_RPM_GEAR_MOTOR,_12VDC_.html) and the lamp with some super-bright LEDs in parallel (same site)....This would simplify the problem and probably use much less power (perhaps a couple of 'D' batteries would suffice). Just a thought.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks, I'm not concerned about the light. I've never seen a motor like that though! Good to know for the future!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

did you ever find the answer you were looking for sickie?


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

I did. heh Basically it's impossible to run a vac from batteries.

Thanks to everyone!

DT, pm me about some of your props you've made for that other site! :-D


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## slimy (Jul 12, 2006)

Sickie, it's easy to go from ac to dc. You first run through a transformer to get the right voltage, then through a bridge circuit to change the wave to dc. It is very expensive to change from dc to ac. 

Good news is there are several types of dc motors available that you could install in your christmas tree. Most of which are not very expensive. Lots of places on the web or locally you could find these motors. 

Good Luck


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

ah! and there we have a slight miscommunication slimy. I took the motor out of the tree to use for a haunt prop. 

I'm learning as I go...slowly...but learning.


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## HibLaGrande (Sep 25, 2005)

to run an AC motor from a DC power supply you will need a power inverter of some sort, and a 9 volt battery will not cut it.


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## slimy (Jul 12, 2006)

That makes my point. Go to Wal Mart ( where America shops) and look in the electronics portion of the store. The 'wall wart' transformers (ac to dc) run for about $6. Then go over to the automotive section and find power inverters (dc to ac) and the small ones run about $40. 

Use the ac motor in a prop where you can plug it in the wall. Grab a dc motor to do whatever you wanted with the batteries.


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## krypt (Oct 25, 2005)

but his prob is he wants no cords and now he will have a big car battery to trip over and car batts are not cost effective for 1 motor


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Did you ever think about getting a different motor? One that runs on DC. Might be cheaper doing it that way.


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## Ugly Joe (Jul 13, 2006)

Question: what's the application for the motor?

Reason I'm asking: if it's a low-torque application, you can probably find a cheap motor to do the job on eBay or elsewhere online...

Hell - if you need cheap, I think you can buy those rechargeable "power screwdrivers" for $5-$10, and use the battery they came with...
(those things are not too hard to disassemble, just be careful not to crack the casing that holds the gears in place, or it's all over)

I have one now, but I don't have a proper application for it yet (not very torque-ey, and the RPM is either too low or too high for anything I want to do) - but it IS another gear motor that has the capacity to run on batteries.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

LOL Yep thought about it and will do so.

Mostly I'm scavenging from broken or thrown away items. Now I'm wiser about vac thanks to everyone here.


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

great idea about the screwdriver! I just wanted it to turn an owl head provided I ever got the owl! heh


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## Ugly Joe (Jul 13, 2006)

I don't think the electric screwdriver will be the best bet for an owl - otherwise it's head's gonna' spin like it's possessed!

Which would be a completely different kind of haunt...The Horrid Cavern of Possessed Barnyard Animals!!

Green pea soup puking cows...roosters spouting satanic vocabulary...goats that eat anything...


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## Sickie Ickie (Jun 20, 2006)

LMAO!!! Mad cows MAd cows!!!


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## JustMatt (Jul 13, 2006)

There might be yet another option, depending on your installation. Are you able to raise the tree off of the floor a little bit? What about running the prop off of a belt drive with the existing motor placed a few feet away?

Remove the motor. Add add a small gear (with teeth or smooth) on the shaft from the tree, and a gear on the motor. The gears can be different sizes if you want, that will enable you to tune the speed. Then run a belt from the remote motor to the prop underneath the false floor. This lets you move the sound and bulk of the motor away from the haunt area.


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