# The Organ Grinder main thread



## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

So I dont start to many threads with my progress and updates this will be the thread I update.

Todays progress.









A co-worker of mine is building this for me, I made the design and all the proportions based on pictures I have seen. It is 1/2 inch birch plywood.
23wx25Hx15D


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Oooo! Looks like you could put on a really good puppet show in that box! Cool design Krough..


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Dr Morbius said:


> Oooo! Looks like you could put on a really good puppet show in that box! Cool design Krough..


That is funny! I was thinking gun rack.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

You have puppet shows in your gunrack, DT? I just learn more and more about you as time goes on.


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## NecroBones (Feb 10, 2006)

Dr Morbius said:


> You have puppet shows in your gunrack, DT? I just learn more and more about you as time goes on.


Hmmm.. ideas!!! Hehehe!!!!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

The Organ is almost done. The builder says he will bring it to me tomorrow. I will probably paint it this weekend. Its going to be very shiny black laquer. With bone white detail painting.


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## Hella (Feb 6, 2006)

that is looking very cool Krough.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

What goes in the opening?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Dr Morbius said:


> What goes in the opening?


Hmm, Well... if you look at most barrel organs you will see small pipes, and or small figurines, that were even sometimes automata. Ill just leave it at that.

Its gonna be cool


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

OH yea...I forgot...duh..You told me already, I think it was in chat. Yea, it's gonna be cool. I remember you are gonna use a cam for the effect. hehe...


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

There is a pic of my cam concept. I needed the ability to drive many objects off a fairly long shaft that has cams on it. instead of using seperate cams for each lifted object I choose to make a few longer cams that can each lift several objects. Of course the final one wont be held together with duct tape. I just used that to honor Vlad


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

That should work...Keep us posted!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Organ build done. We made a few proportional changes. I am very happy with the design. Any ideas on how I should treat the end grain of the plywood so that when I paint it I dont see the layers? Im thinking just use putty and a sander. Probably going to sand the whole thing, then primer it and then paint it flat black with latex house paint, then the detail painting will go in a bone white color, followed by very shiny polyuretane.

Here was the image we used to get the proportions right


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Very nice...If only you could get some guy who does professional comics and a recent BBQ flyer to paint it for you, why you would have it made!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Its funny you say that. I have just the person to do the detail painting


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Ok, as long he also helps in actual BBQ contests, It'll be alright.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Now I was told growing up that I only needed 2 tools; duct tape and WD-40. If it isn't moving and its supposed to use the WD-40, if it moves and it isn't supposed to then use the duct tape. Since Zombie didn't allow animation, I guess we should have built our tombstones out of duct tape.

As long as you're painting a solid color, plastic wood followed by sanding should work. Maybe 2 rounds of applying / sanding. Looking great there krough. Can I have a t-shirt?


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Dr Morbius said:


> Ok, as long he also helps in actual BBQ contests, It'll be alright.


Don't forget the bones, have to send bones....


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

HJ, Please contact my agent Mr DeathTouch regarding the shirt


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

heresjohnny said:


> Now I was told growing up that I only needed 2 tools; duct tape and WD-40. If it isn't moving and its supposed to use the WD-40, if it moves and it isn't supposed to then use the duct tape. Since Zombie didn't allow animation, I guess we should have built our tombstones out of duct tape.
> 
> As long as you're painting a solid color, plastic wood followed by sanding should work. Maybe 2 rounds of applying / sanding. Looking great there krough. Can I have a t-shirt?


Whats Plastic Wood?


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

krough said:


> Whats Plastic Wood?


http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00010504.pdf#search='dap%20plastic%20wood'

There are others, its just a good wood filler.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Got the "mechanism" (small aluminum block, tapped, drilled etc...) from the machinist today. My drill press skills are lacking.
After making it he gave it to me for free, since it didnt take him too long


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Wow! Nice work dude! I am impressed with your craftmanship.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

looking proffesional there krough, very nice work.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Wow...that is starting to look good. You know you are going to need a haunter's permit when you are done. I just happen to sell them at 35 bucks.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

35 bucks , thats a bargain. Ill take 2

I hate cutting plastic. Any help on how to do it? I have been using my dremel.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

scroll saw. I would think that would work good.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

hmm, I dont know if I can justify the scroll saw to just cut plastic. Could I do other cool stuff with it?


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

It is really gooood with cutting foam, and it doesn't hack up the piece. I also use it for computer case mods. I use it to cut the computer case to add plexi-glass as a window.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

maybe ill have to hit the yard sales tomorrow and look for one.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

I have all the servos mounted. Took me all day


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

I am impressed! you are truley a man of many talents!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Playing around with the look of the pipes

















More pipes? less pipes? ideas?

The surface directly behind the pipes is a false back, behind it is about 6 inches of space before the real back. the speakers for the voice and music will be placed in this vertical surface


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

I think putting thinner pvc pipes in between the others ones. But the height being a little smaller.


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

I don't know, how close to the picture do you want to be? I think more pipes closer together would look closer to a real organ, and if you want to be really picky you would need pipes of different sizes. It looks like the size of the skulls limit how close you can get the pipes together, and if I recall the pipes will be going up and down a little, so you could either use bigger pipes, or carve out areas in the adjoining pipes for the skull heads to ride in. You could also stagger the pipes so looking at it, it would appear the pipes overlap. Just some ideas. Looking good, however you do it!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Actually the skulls will be lifting up from the tops of the pipes, the pipes themselves wont move.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

One last idea before I go to bed


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

OK, one more before bed.
ITS ALIVE
http://www.grimvisions.com/images/organgrinder/video/alive.AVI
http://www.grimvisions.com/images/organgrinder/video/alive2.AVI

I am amazed that it actually works


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

YES! Awsome! I knew it would work!..What are you using to control the servos in the video?

Edited] Already discussed in chat...Paralax sofware. Thanks Krough


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

ITS ALIVE, ITS ALIVE!

That last shot of the pipes looks better with less space between.


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## lewlew (Mar 15, 2006)

First let me say... HOLY CRAP! That is fantastic!:googly: 
I can't wait to see the finished product (just like everyone else around here).

What about using copper tubing for the pipes? It's not too expensive and it could be tarnished to give it that nice aged look. It would also give the pipes an authentic look. Plus they're smaller and you could fit more into your space.

How are you planning on getting the skulls to raise up? Air?

Edit [Whoops. Cams. That's how you're doin' it. Gotcha. Sorry bout that.]


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Hey Krough, I would love to see you get a video from the top of it, just to get a better idea of how the mech works..I think I know, but a video would be better than just a still pic...please?!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Yea, video. "Video killed the radio store!" (Deathtouch singing)


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Dr Morbius said:


> Hey Krough, I would love to see you get a video from the top of it, just to get a better idea of how the mech works..I think I know, but a video would be better than just a still pic...please?!


I will get a video of the top view during operation tonight.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Thank you!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Yahhhhh, for Krough. Hip hip, hurray.... Where is my popcorn?


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Still no video? Hmmmm...


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh Quit it.  
http://www.grimvisions.com/images/organgrinder/video/servo_view.AVI

Does that clear things up? If it doesnt remember this. The aluminum block is attached to the skull. the pivot point (neck) for the pan movement is fixed, the skull moves around it, there are bearings in the top and bottom of that aluminum block. For the tilt the other end of the servo linkage is attached to the side of the aluminum block, and the servo is attached to the acrylic platform. the aluminum block rotates on a horizontal axis by way of 2 tie rod ends and 2 bolts


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

thanks Krough..that helped.


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

It is a good thing too. My popcorn was getting cold. I can imagine krough in the background saying, that damn Dr. M and his video. What I would have done is take a video of your dogs fighting in the hallway. Now that is would be cool.


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## PrettyGhoul (Oct 7, 2005)

DeathTouch said:


> It is a good thing too. My popcorn was getting cold. I can imagine krough in the background saying, that damn Dr. M and his video. What I would have done is take a video of your dogs fighting in the hallway. Now that is would be cool.


LOL DT to funny!!

krough that is amazing!!!! I can hardly wait to see it when its done!!!


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## Death Wraith (Mar 23, 2006)

Krough:

If someone (like me) wanted to try this but didn't have access to a machinist to make the aluminum block, could the same thing be made out of wood?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Probably not. There is a fair amount of inertia generated when the servos move the weight of the skull.

I am going to be redesigning the block very soon, and instead of aluminum it will be made of Delrin (a plastic). in about 3 weeks I will have the delrin prototype and could possibly have an extra one made if you want one.


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## Death Wraith (Mar 23, 2006)

Now that would be cool. Of course I'm sure others here will want to try also. But count me in as the first (provided it's not too expensive). Or perhaps I could get the aluminum one after you're thru with it?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

2 coats of exterior black latex


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

That organ is coming along nicely!


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## Fangs (Jun 6, 2006)

Dr Morbius said:


> That organ is coming along nicely!


I agree! Most definitley!! :xbones:


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## Hellrazor (Jun 18, 2006)

Wow neato - Krough you are so talented! What great ideas!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

OK small update
Been playing with jaw movement for voice.

Scary Terry circuit with Bill Cosby track. This circuit always drives to the max when opening or closing the mouth.
http://www.grimvisions.com/images/organgrinder/video/jaw1.AVI

Here it is with VSA driving the audio track, track from Zombie F's site
http://www.grimvisions.com/images/organgrinder/video/mouth1.AVI

I persoanlly like the look of the VSA jaw movement much better


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## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

So Krough. Do you program the VSA step-by-step to controll the jaw movement, and if I'm doing my homework right it will also make the head turn side to side and up and down? Or does the VSA automatically drive the servo for the jaw like the Scary Terry unit does?
Man, if I'm understanding this right, I'm digging this VSA thing. I've got a friend who owns a computer recyling business so stand alone computers to run the show are a piece of cake and a dime a dozen!! But I think I only need one to run the whole show, just need to run phone (serial) lines to each prop to the Mini SSC mounted in each skeleton.
Any input on if I'm right or way off base?


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Oh, my God Krough. I grew up on that album. My parents had it as I was has a kid. You should play buck buck #1. Or my fav is the chicken heart.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

darryl said:


> So Krough. Do you program the VSA step-by-step to controll the jaw movement, and if I'm doing my homework right it will also make the head turn side to side and up and down? Or does the VSA automatically drive the servo for the jaw like the Scary Terry unit does?
> Man, if I'm understanding this right, I'm digging this VSA thing. I've got a friend who owns a computer recyling business so stand alone computers to run the show are a piece of cake and a dime a dozen!! But I think I only need one to run the whole show, just need to run phone (serial) lines to each prop to the Mini SSC mounted in each skeleton.
> Any input on if I'm right or way off base?


You load a audio file into VSA and it syncs the servo to produce jaw movement automajically. and yes it can also control the other movements as well. Its a pretty cool piece of software. If you have a minissc or parallax controller go ahead and download the VSA demo.
I dont know about using one instance of VSA to control multiple props. Ill have to check into that.


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## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

Thanks Krough, that makes it even more promising. So far I don't have anything but just ordered the Scary Terry Audio Server Driver to make my first talking skull. 
I try to gather all info possible then make a decision which way to go.
Looked at the VSA site and it seems to me that each minissc will drive 8 servos at a time. So it won't know if you have 3 servos in one skull to do what you have, then 3 in another and 2 in another for just movements. Just need to run longer wires from a centrally located minissc say at the base of a prop to each servo. And I'm thinking of say three Buckies grouped together with each one taking turns talking so it would be like one big prop.
Maybe at the gate to the cemetary warning people off, or maybe something silly like the three singing ghouls on Fox Productions site.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

krough said:


> OK small update
> Been playing with jaw movement for voice.
> 
> Scary Terry circuit with Bill Cosby track. This circuit always drives to the max when opening or closing the mouth.
> ...


Looks like the applause form the audience in the Cosby track is what is keeping the jaw open, since the circuit can't tell the difference between spoken speech and any ambient sound.


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## Zombie-F (Apr 12, 2004)

Personally, aside from the little problem Dr M noted, I think I like the motion of the Scary Terry board better. The key with the ST board is to make it so that when the motor is at its limit, the jaw is only open an inch or less. All too often I see versions of that board used with a skull who's mouth opens like three inches. Who's mouth opens that wide? I think that's what hurts most people as far as motion goes... the further it goes when it opens, the longer it stays open even during a silent part.

Of course, the truly best way to do this is to program all the motion yourself, but that's such a daunting task I can't even begin to think about doing it that way.


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Dr Morbius said:


> Looks like the applause form the audience in the Cosby track is what is keeping the jaw open, since the circuit can't tell the difference between spoken speech and any ambient sound.


correct, also the comparison isnt that good, since I didnt use the same track for each one. Oh well


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Zombie-F said:


> Personally, aside from the little problem Dr M noted, I think I like the motion of the Scary Terry board better. The key with the ST board is to make it so that when the motor is at its limit, the jaw is only open an inch or less. All too often I see versions of that board used with a skull who's mouth opens like three inches. Who's mouth opens that wide? I think that's what hurts most people as far as motion goes... the further it goes when it opens, the longer it stays open even during a silent part.
> 
> Of course, the truly best way to do this is to program all the motion yourself, but that's such a daunting task I can't even begin to think about doing it that way.


Great Point Zombie. We figured this out after a bit of tweaking the linkages. Im still thinking of just using the parallax board since if we go with VSA its one less piece of circutry. Yeah rarely when I talk does my mouth open more than 1 inch


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Speaking of VSA, I can't help but love how many devices this piece of software can control. If you have an old PC laying around, and many devices to control, this is a great option. http://www.brookshiresoftware.com/vsa_configurations.htm

Quote from one setup from site:

Example 1. In this example, VSA is controlling 24 MiniSSC servos, 2 SMI motors, 12 SV203 servos, 4 SV203 relays, 8 LPT relays, 4 DMX 20-Amp stage lights, 1 DMX X-Y scanning spot light, and 1 byte of generic LPT output. Notice that up to the maximum number of devices can be connected to any one port. For example, as many as 64 MiniSSC devices could be connected on COM1. Also note that in this configuration, the RAPU v3.0 is acting as a "repeater" and retransmitting the MiniSSC and DMX commands sent from the PC. The RAPU v3.0, the Velleman VM116/K8062, or the ENTTEC Open DMX USB is required to generate DMX output.
Can't do all that from a prop-1!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Well, now that the shed is done








I can go back to prop building.
Afterall that shed is empty and needs something to fill it up.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Does that mean you're out of the basement?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh no, the basement is my lair so to speak. Its huge, and all my tools and workbenches are down there


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## darryl (Mar 23, 2006)

Ahhh yes, the basement. I can't wait to finish the last unfinished part of my basement. My wife says it's all mine!!!! OHHHH YEAHHH!! My own little room for Halloween and Star Wars, geek squad unite!!!


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Ah yes, back on track. I Have started work on the supporting structure for the prop and a few odds and ends. Here is the structure









Here it is with the organ and a bit O' clothing. None of this is finalized , I just dressed it so I could see proportions right, and no Im not using that head either.


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## Frighteners Entertainment (Jan 24, 2006)

Looking good and I like the head!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Man that is awesome. I need a T-shirt that says, "You Prop Whore!"


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## Bone Dancer (Oct 7, 2005)

I agree with fe, the head looks good


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## Hellrazor (Jun 18, 2006)

Ya if we ever go to a convention and meet up with Krough, we should have tees that say <---- Im with prop whore

he he


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## TearyThunder (Jul 1, 2006)

Sweet! Once again I am humbled by your creations! 

BTW I like the head too!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

I think you are trying to get my jealous nature going so that I will try to out do you. Well, it won't work I tell. No, it won't. [Blowing raspberry at Krough] Ok, maybe just a little&#8230;


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Very nice Krough, looks like a wicked old man.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

I am so sorry I called you a prop-whore. God!...I am so sorry. By the way, that prop is ganna look awesome!


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## DeathTouch (Sep 6, 2005)

Dr Morbius said:


> I am so sorry I called you a prop-whore. God!...I am so sorry. By the way, that prop is ganna look awesome!


Dr., calling Krough God is even worse. Now he will never get that chip off his Shoulders. At least "Prop Whore" has a nice ring to it. And you can sell lots of T-shirts with Prop whore on it. Not to mention the videos and audio CDs. Ironstock has all their songs, we can have ours, "You are nothing but a prop whore! A dirty little prop Whore!. You silly little props whore!....See? So don't be sorry calling Krough a Prop Whore. It is just another stage of his unnatural development into the world of Halloween Prop making.


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Those boxes in the background...the ones that say "Made in China"..ACC bones by the case?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Wow, Stop disecting my photos, Dr M. LOL
But yes they are boxes from ACC


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## heresjohnny (Feb 15, 2006)

Maybe we should call this thing the bone grinder instead?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Made the motor mount for the side crank today.


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## grim reaper (Aug 18, 2005)

wow looks great so far


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Have you given up on the cam idea?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh, for the animated pipes? No, not yet.
That would probably be a different motor though


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## Dr Morbius (Sep 21, 2004)

Any update on this?


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## pyro (Oct 7, 2006)

wow that is really coming along -again like everyone else can't wait to see it done. are you going to use 12v or a converter for your wiper motor?


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## krough (Oct 7, 2004)

LOL. ummmm... Yes still working on it off and on. More off than on.

The wiper motor will be powered by a http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=29144
from parallax I think haven't decided for sure yet.


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## dflowers2 (Mar 5, 2007)

Krough, Wow! You do some great stuff. Now, I must go and plan. I have to be like Krough. Lol


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