# Making flickering candle lighting?



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Hello again. This year I am wanting to make the fake candles but am looking to use a more permanent form of lighting than the tea candles. I have done some searching and either see nothing on how this is done or I am not understanding what I am reading. I was planning on either doing the PVC pipe candle method or pool noodles if I can locate enough of them. Surely there has to be some way of making the fake candle light that flickers that either runs on larger batteries or something that I can plug the whole array into the wall. Was thinking of making upwards of 100-125 candles if I can come up with a place to display them off the ground. Anyone that can help me with this?


----------



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Found a couple posts but appears those links are so old they are no longer valid or the items are no longer available. The little led boards looked like exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

There are quite a few posts running around. Not sure which you may have seen. We've looked at dozens of ways to do it. Seems like we started with tea lights, tea lights circuits running multiple LEDs through transistors, then flickering LEDs evolved where there was no more separate circuit board and the flicker was built in. We did some circuits with those. Did some circuits with voltage/bar graph drivers to make a lively 'flicker', etc.

In the modern era, the easiest thing would likely be to just get flickering LEDs and use them straight to the power.... no separate circuit is needed - as long as you have outside voltage regulation. You can get them in a whole rainbow of colors or warm white, if you're a traditionalist.

Depending on where you are in the make-vs-buy curve, you can buy 'dancing LED' candles - which we've also discussed. These are probably the closest you come to a 'real' candle without fire.

I also see a bunch of landscape lights and other specialty bulbs coming in a LED 'torch' version which looks relatively like a torch burning inside a cage.

Hope some of this helps, or at least gives you some good search terms.


----------



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for responding with some more info Corey.

In the modern era, the easiest thing would likely be to just get flickering LEDs and use them straight to the power.... no separate circuit (outside voltage regulation) is needed.

This option here, where do I look for the parts to make and how is it put together?


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

Note - I edited my original post to make it clear you 'do' need voltage regulation. I did not word the original very well.

For LEDs, most any of the 'hobby supply' places seem to have them (sorry I think we're forbidden from posting links) but adafruit, ebay, evilmadscientist, frightprops, etc. 

For hooking them up, I would probably look for a nice, regulated 3.0-3.3 volt supply (or as appropriate for the LEDs you choose), then all the LEDs would just be in parallel with the supply.


----------



## RoxyBlue (Oct 6, 2008)

corey872 said:


> For LEDs, most any of the 'hobby supply' places seem to have them (sorry I think we're forbidden from posting links) but adafruit, ebay, evilmadscientist, frightprops, etc..


Just to clarify, you can post a link to an item as long as it's not an eBay or auction site link. Vendors of items must post in the Sponsor and Vendor forum.

Now back to your regular thread


----------



## Front Yard Fright (Dec 23, 2005)

SirOvenMitt said:


> Hello again. This year I am wanting to make the fake candles but am looking to use a more permanent form of lighting than the tea candles. I have done some searching and either see nothing on how this is done or I am not understanding what I am reading. I was planning on either doing the PVC pipe candle method or pool noodles if I can locate enough of them. Surely there has to be some way of making the fake candle light that flickers that either runs on larger batteries or something that I can plug the whole array into the wall. Was thinking of making upwards of 100-125 candles if I can come up with a place to display them off the ground. Anyone that can help me with this?


I'd use these for your light source: 5mm 12v Pre-Wired Flickering/Candle Yellow/Gold LED - Ultra Bright (Pack of 10). Depending on how many you want, you can get a cheap 12v power supply from Fright Props or on Amazon as well. Allen Hopps of Stiltbeast Studios has a great video that explains some of the ins and outs of using LEDs in haunts.






Stiltbeast Studios also did a great LED Candle Tutorial for help/insight on how to pull off the candle forms. Jake also does a great explanation of practical lighting effects as well. 




Hope this helps! :biggrinkin:


----------



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Those look very promising. The video makes it look fairly easy to easy to wire. Any good place for the power supply's? Then i just need to weather proof it.


----------



## Front Yard Fright (Dec 23, 2005)

SirOvenMitt said:


> Those look very promising. The video makes it look fairly easy to easy to wire. Any good place for the power supply's? Then i just need to weather proof it.


Fright Props is a reputable vendor in the industry. Otherwise you can look on Amazon and save a few bucks. (I prefer to support haunt vendors, though!)

Just make sure you get 12v DC. Amperage is depending on how many LEDs you want to connect. The rule of thumb is each LED pulls 20mA meaning a 1amp power supply can power up to 50 LEDs.

Good luck! :jol:


----------



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Didn't the first video say batteries are DC? 
I was wondering about putting some on battery packs so I don't have to worry about running ext cords to those locations. I found this https://www.sciplus.com/aa-battery-holder-58791-p but it doesn't say how many mamps it puts out or if it is DC.


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

All batteries, by default, will be DC. The milliamp output will be somewhat dependent on the batteries you use and how long you need the power to last. Alkaline AA cells typically run in the 2000 - 2800 millamp-hour capacity range. So very roughly, you would get ~2000 mA for one hour, ~200 mA for 10 hours, 20mA for 100 hours, etc. Though in reality, a heavy draw tends to kill the battery sooner, where a very light draw can help get all the power out of the battery.

That ad doesn't seem to say if this is 4 cells in parallel - which would be 4x the milliamp hour capacity at 1.5V, or if it is 4 cells in series, which would be the same capacity as one but 4x the voltage (1.5 x 4 = 6 Volts)

That brings up the next issue - voltage. The flickering LEDs mentioned earlier were "12 volt" - so this battery pack would not run them. You'd need at least 8 alkaline batteries in series (1.5 V x 8 = 12 volts). Based on your earlier mention of "upwards of 125" candles, you'd probably be better off with a small lead-acid rechargeable battery, or a set of 18650 lithium rechargeable batteries.

This also hints at another issue - If you're drawing power from the wall, it's wasteful, but not a huge deal to 'burn' all the excess voltage as heat. Those "12 volt" flickering LEDs are actually ~3.0-3.2V LEDs with a big resistor to drop the 12 volts down to 3. So you're basically burning the 9 volts as heat. When you go to batteries, you're much better off to have a 3 volt battery drive a 3 volt LED with essentially no waste heat. Otherwise 3/4 of your power is just an electric heater.


----------



## SirOvenMitt (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks for pointing out the battery volt issue. So far the lowest power supply i see is 1a, is there something I can install to lower the voltage coming from the PS?


----------



## trachcanman99 (Sep 4, 2015)

as long as you understand Ohm's law the right resistor will provide the right voltage drop and serve as a current limiting device for your LED. here is a basic tutorial on how to. you need to decide if you are going to hook up all the lights in series, don't suggest yo go that route, or parallel which I do recommend. If you hook them in small clusters of series then hook everybody together in parallel if one LED burns out you only lose that one cluster. if you hook everything in parallel and one LED burns out you only lose that one candle.

http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Basic_Light_Emitting_Diode_guide


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

'Mitt - You will actually want the supply to have a larger amp rating than what you need. You mentioned 125 LEDs and we will assume 20mA per LED or 0.020 amps. 125 LEDs x 0.020 amps = 2.5 amps. So ideally, you need a 3 amp or larger supply.

The voltage does need to 'match'. Earlier you mentioned '12 volt' LEDs, so you would want a 12 volt / 3 amp (or higher) supply. This is fine from a wall supply - the LEDs actually need 3.0 - 3.2 volts, so the extra ~9 volts is just burned off as heat in a resistor. Though if you run a battery, 3/4 of your power is just an electric heater and 1/4 going to make light. 

trach' - Your suggestion is good for regular LEDs though any of the 'effect' LEDs typically pass their effect in the current flowing through. So if you try to series two flickering/fading/blinking LEDs then the next LED in series sees the flickering/fading/blinking current of the others. This can be a benefit if you want LEDs doing the same thing, but only have one effect LED - series them and they all do the effect! But for normal operation, all effect LEDs need to be parallel only.


----------



## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

In the Stiltbeast video they mention the flicker circuit is within the black heatshrink. Anyone know how much of the tubing is the circuit? I'm curious because due to space constraints in my project I would need to bend the wire in an L with the LED at the top of the L. 

Planning on putting 2-3 mini lighted jacks in my Terrorium project. The jacks will be about 1.5" tall with the lights mounting from the underside of the jack. The wires would extend down about another 1.5" - 2.0" beneath the substrate before heading out bottom and into the base where the wiring will be.


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

He does say that, but I don't know that it is true. Every flicker LED I have seen has the circuit inside the LED body, itself. It is a tiny 'grain of salt' sized speck of silicon. ie:

https://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/partsmenu/353#

In the photo of the yellow LED, you can see the glowing yellow LED die on the left and the 'black box' flicker circuit on the right.

Since those are being billed as "12 volt" LEDs, there is a resistor in the heat shrink - but that could go anywhere in the wiring. I've also had great luck running flicker LEDs directly from 2 series alkaline cells for 3 volt power - no resistor required. It seems the flicker circuit itself is doing some current limiting.


----------



## Terrormaster (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks Corey, I like those. I'll probably have more technical questions in a new thread someplace once I plan out all the lighting in this project.


----------



## Batbuddy (Sep 3, 2014)

SirOvenMitt said:


> Didn't the first video say batteries are DC?
> I was wondering about putting some on battery packs so I don't have to worry about running ext cords to those locations. I found this https://www.sciplus.com/aa-battery-holder-58791-p but it doesn't say how many mamps it puts out or if it is DC.


Yes those are DC. Anything that has a battery is DC. The average milliamp hours(MAH) of a AA battery is 2000 to 2400, so if you are running one LED that is consuming .2 milliamps then it will run for 12,000 hours. Those battery packs you posted are 4 AA batteries which makes 6 volts, but the milliamps do not combine. That pack will be 6 volts 2400 milliamps. Most LEDS nowadays just need 3 volts. And 6 Volts will burn them out. If you want to just buy bulk LEDs look here. They are from China and are under $5 for 100 LEDs. Most flickering LED candles run off of CR2032 watch batteries which have 235 MAH so if they are running one LED they will run for approx. 1175 Hours. Two LEDs? cut the time in half. etc. As you can see it may be easiest and cheapest to use CR2032 batteries and LEDS from China.


----------



## Batbuddy (Sep 3, 2014)

corey872 said:


> He does say that, but I don't know that it is true. Every flicker LED I have seen has the circuit inside the LED body, itself. It is a tiny 'grain of salt' sized speck of silicon. ie:
> 
> https://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/partsmenu/353#
> 
> In the photo of the yellow LED, you can see the glowing yellow LED die on the left and the 'black box' flicker circuit on the right.


 with all due respect to Cory, who incidentally is a great guy and contributor to this forum...

I bet these LEDS are the same ones from China. My opinion is if its made in China, Then buy it directly from China. I see no reason to pay over 5 times more for something just because someone else imported it for me...


----------



## corey872 (Jan 10, 2010)

I suspect everyone knows all of that by now. But forum rules prevent me from posting a link to those sources - so I grabbed a domestic sample.


----------



## trachcanman99 (Sep 4, 2015)

I think all the LEDs come from China, the only difference is a company with a supply of them in this country will cut delivery time to days instead of weeks required if shipped directly from China. but I think I got a couple of orders from china in less than a week, most of the time anything I order from there takes about a month to arrive.


----------



## trachcanman99 (Sep 4, 2015)

corey872 said:


> '
> 
> trach' - Your suggestion is good for regular LEDs though any of the 'effect' LEDs typically pass their effect in the current flowing through. So if you try to series two flickering/fading/blinking LEDs then the next LED in series sees the flickering/fading/blinking current of the others. This can be a benefit if you want LEDs doing the same thing, but only have one effect LED - series them and they all do the effect! But for normal operation, all effect LEDs need to be parallel only.


 that is why I said I recommend hooking them up in parallel, those Christmas tree led lights are hooked in series and look at what a mess they are to try to keep working.


----------

