# Gilderfluke???



## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

Can the mini-brick4 control other sound devices besides the sd-10??? Any suggestions?


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

my guess is yes - all the minibrick 4 is really doing is sending power to the channel specified when the program tells it too - so it just acts like a trigger for the sd 10 (i think) so im guessing you could wire this to any other sound device you wanted to that will trigger via a 9-24 vdc input - - what are you plannin on doin with it? - btw - any pic updates for us?

jim - brckee1 - would be a good one to ask this about instead of me - im sure hed be able to give you a better answer - good luck man - riley


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

was thinking the same thing. Im just trying to come up with a cheaper way to have sound to one of my props. The sd-10 is really expensive. sorry, no pics to update..........actually, I probably wont post many more until after the Haunt. But if you want em, I can PM you some. Are you using any other sound devices with your props?


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

What about an AP-8 from EFX-TEK

Whats the good word about these? Which speakers can you use with these? Seems they have an amp built in.........hmm...


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

i dont know anything about the efx tek products - after this season i really need to do my homework and get a general sense of what ALL i have to choose from so that i make the right choice when ordering a specific porduct for a specific need - what type of sound are you looking to get/what type prop is it? just a more simpler pop up with a 5 second scream or do you want some dialogue in it as well that would be longer than your average prop - i think i have 2 sd 10's in addition to the one for my bed guy (ughh that reminds me i need to make a shorter program for him) for some of my simpler hacked job pop ups i think im just gonna try to use the digital voice recorder hack to nice pc speakers - i think we talked about this a little before on the phone - about the whole mounting them so they are basically in the guests ears instead of under the prop to make up for the lack of sound they kick out - however - when i say the voice recorders are a real hack job i MEAN it - i wouldnt be surprised if they failed at any point - last year i had 3 of these and they all worked flawlessly, but if youd see the way i made them youd be surprised they lasted the night

so basically im kinda in the same shoes - i would like a reletively inexpensive yet reliable way to get good sound to decent speakers - if i cant think of anything else ill prolly just try more hack job dvr's and try to make them to the best of my ability - - - however all aspects of sound are by far my weakest link in haunting

something really bare bones that we did last year - (warning - what you are about to read is very very primitive and not suggested to aspiring prop makers) we had a few pneumatics that just didnt have time to have sound added to them - the first night they were by far the weakest prop and only got maybe half the people - the reason was obviously because of sound - er lack there of - so heres an "in the trenches" method of solving it - all our props are triggered manually and prolly always will be - sooo when the actor pushed the button they simply let out a scream to go along with it - worked like a charm  - now like i said - thats obviously not something you want to plan to do - but if some sound fails on you durring a run through theres not much else you can do - 

something else you can do is actually have 2 seperate switches with 2 totally different circuits - thats what i do with the dvr anyway - cause i use 110 to run a lot of my props if i put a little dvr on the same circuit it would fry it - so i have 2 seperate triggers - just mount them right beside each other on a board - then attatch the 2 switches - i just use 2 position light switches - with a piece of wood or popsicle stick or somthin so that the actor flips the piece of wood and it trigers both switches - so in actuality, , unless you want the prop and audio to start at different places in the sequence - you could have the audio totally seperate from the brick4 - on a different circuit - and just hit both switches at the same time

anyone have ideas for cheap and easy sound with decent quality and good volume that we didn't mention here? what do you guys use? - riley


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

Anybody??


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## ScareFX (Aug 18, 2004)

I don't have one but according the Br-miniBrick4 manual, it can be used to control a wide variety of things.



> The Br-miniBrick4 can be used to control animated shows and displays, fountains, fireworks, lighting, sound systems, slide and movie projectors, fiber optics, window displays, motors, pneumatic and hydraulic systems, special effects, signs, machines and machine tools in process control, or anything else that can be controlled by an electrical signal.


I've been using the Cowlacious ISD® Chipcorder® Recorder/Player Board ( http://www.cowlacious.com/AudioProd.htm ) for a couple of my props. I used amplified speakers to get the volume I needed. The sound quality is not great but they are pretty cheap and work well. It should be no problem to control one of these boards with a miniBrick4. Just be aware of the sound quality limitations.

I used one with this prop.





And this one as well.


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I have a new triggerable mp3 player control board that allows you to put an mp3 file on the provided mp3 player via your usb port, then you plug it back into our control board and when triggered will play the mp3 file. Output is via a 1/8" jack that you have to run to some powered speakers (guitar amps work good). It's around $90. I will put together a spec sheet and get it up on my website asap.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

thanks guys - much appreciated - 

so SFX - i read the page quickly and it looks promising - but im not quite sure exactly what i need - am i correct in saying that the first product listed - the chip recorder - puts your sound effect (can you use mp3 files from the net or mixed mp3 tracks from audacity) onto the chip board and you can pla it from that unit - - - - so what is just the player board for? does it JUST play the sound and you have to record it on your chip from one of the recorders??

am i correct in sayin i really only need one of the recorder/players and just get a player board for each of my props and use the recorder to put the sound on a chip and pop it into the player?

i think this might be really good for some cheap sound and id prolly get several - just need some clarification as to what would be the best way to put 5 different sounds on 5 independant props that can each be triggered seperatly - thanks for the help! - riley


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I just got info added to our site about our new one. http://evilusions.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=990


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## ScareFX (Aug 18, 2004)

1031fan said:


> thanks guys - much appreciated -
> 
> so SFX - i read the page quickly and it looks promising - but im not quite sure exactly what i need - am i correct in saying that the first product listed - the chip recorder - puts your sound effect (can you use mp3 files from the net or mixed mp3 tracks from audacity) onto the chip board and you can pla it from that unit - - - - so what is just the player board for? does it JUST play the sound and you have to record it on your chip from one of the recorders??


Correct. The recorder/player does both and you need at least one of those. You can record from any source but I use a PC.

The player just plays. You have to remove the chip from the player and put in in a recorder/player to record. Then put it back in the player.



1031fan said:


> am i correct in sayin i really only need one of the recorder/players and just get a player board for each of my props and use the recorder to put the sound on a chip and pop it into the player?


That's correct.



1031fan said:


> i think this might be really good for some cheap sound and id prolly get several - just need some clarification as to what would be the best way to put 5 different sounds on 5 independant props that can each be triggered seperatly - thanks for the help! - riley


For five different props you would need at least one recorder/player with a chip and four players each with a chip. Plus you will need amplified speakers for all five.

The optional ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) socket makes it much easier to take the chip on and off the player board.

I trigger mine with a simple relay attached to a switch that powers on the prop.

Please keep in mind the sound quality of these chips is not very good. It's mono and it's fine for growls, screams and that kind of thing but voice tracks are not going to sound very good.

If you need high quality stereo sound, look for one of the mp3 products


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

awesome! thanks for the info! glad my thinking was on track - two other little questions - 

the ZIF - do you need one for every player? or can it be used just as a tool to put the chip on the player? if you dont have the ZIF - what is it like to do the connection??

also - do you just get the wall transformers that they sell on their sight? - 7.50 or whatever for those dont sound bad - thanks! - riley


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I put a zif on everyone, you usually need a screwdriver to remove an isd chip and I have bent alot of tabs on them. You can get power supplies alot cheaper from jameco.


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## ScareFX (Aug 18, 2004)

1031fan said:


> awesome! thanks for the info! glad my thinking was on track - two other little questions -
> 
> the ZIF - do you need one for every player? or can it be used just as a tool to put the chip on the player? if you dont have the ZIF - what is it like to do the connection??


If you are doing four boards I'd at least get one ZIF for the recorder since that's where you will be swapping the most chips. It's a totally optional thing however. It's not that hard to swap the chips. A removal tool is best but I've used a small screwdriver to pry them out of the socket. You just have to be careful that the pins are lined up properly and you don't bend them.



1031fan said:


> also - do you just get the wall transformers that they sell on their sight? - 7.50 or whatever for those dont sound bad - thanks! - riley


You can use any supply from 8v to 24vDC. I've been getting mine at the local thrift store for $2 to $3. People donate those things all the time.


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

Excellent information everybody, thanks....

SFX, have you used their PETIII timers? I am hoping to control a few of my props with these and I am looking for their limitations.....thanks again.


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## ScareFX (Aug 18, 2004)

buggybuilder said:


> Excellent information everybody, thanks....
> 
> SFX, have you used their PETIII timers? I am hoping to control a few of my props with these and I am looking for their limitations.....thanks again.


Sorry buggybuilder. I have not used one of their timers. Not sure what the limitations might be. Hopefully someone else will chime in.


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I have used them alot, I stopped using them when I had my own designed. Now I run about 15 of them in my yard haunt and use my own designs in the big haunt. What did you want to do with them? I don't know exactly what limiations your looking for.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

good call buggy - i was browsing and saw these too - would be cool to have something for the more simpler props that dont need a brick 4 or 8 for - any info on these would br great

thanks everyone for your input - and evilusions - i like ur site alot - got some cool stuff

thanks! riley

EDIT - you guys must have posted while i was writing - as far as limitaions - heres what id like to know - how do they compare with say the minibrick 4 - with it you get four channels that are completely independant - meaning i can run a prop with 4 independant cylinders - or 2 cylinders and 2 lights - or basically any combo of four things up to 24 vdc - the show can be pretty long - at least 5 min i think

so what can the PET series do? how many channels? how long of a "show" can i program with it


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

The pet's are single channel (two seperate relays that are triggered at the same time).

http://www.cowlacious.com/SupportDocs/PET-III-R2 Manual v1-1.pdf

http://www.cowlacious.com/SupportDocs/Vari-PET _with case_ Manual - 2005 v1.1.pdf

The PET is programmed by exact on and off times, for example: trigger, 2 second delay, relays on 2-1/8 seconds, relays off 4-1/2 seconds, repeat on and off 3 times, then stay off for 10 seconds before being retriggered.

The VariPet is programmed like a key banger, you can set an initial delay after trigger, then it plays back the timing of you hitting the button, and then can be repeated and have a hold off time like the PET.

They are 10 amp relays that can be used for AC or DC.


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

So with the PET timers you can't control the 2 relays independently? This is the limitation I was looking for. I was thinking that 2 PET timers could do the same show as the Mini-brick 4.........I guess this is not the case. It looks like I will be using a combo of 3-4 mini-bricks and the rest will be controlled by the PET. I have yet to check out your site gadget-evilusions, but that is my next stop. Thanks again all for the help. I would still like some input on the AP-8 sound board, as it has a bi-level built in amp that would simplify some of my props. Has anyone here used these?


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I have 3 ap-8's, just havent got a chance to play with them yet.

Have you looked into the prop-1's and prop-2's from efx-tek? It would be a much cheaper route than 3-4 mini bricks. And it gives you alot more control. I just got a shipment of another 10 prop-1's in today.


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

gadget-evilusions said:


> I have 3 ap-8's, just havent got a chance to play with them yet.
> 
> Have you looked into the prop-1's and prop-2's from efx-tek? It would be a much cheaper route than 3-4 mini bricks. And it gives you alot more control. I just got a shipment of another 10 prop-1's in today.


 I have looked into them, but i am not confident I could program them effeciently. I dont mind paying for some convenaince, especially during crunch time.......right now time is money to me! I think m aybe next year I will do more researc on the prop-1..........


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

Just some info on the AP-8 from Jon at EFX-TEK.....thanks Jon:


The AP-8 can store up eight audio segments; in serial mode you can
start any
one of them, in manual switch mode you select the sound to play with
the DIP
switches then press the play button (or do it remotely via the Play
input header).

Move audio into the AP-8 is identical to the Cowlacious product: you
play the
audio from your PC into the board via a 1/8th" cable. Since you're
using
manual mode set your switches to slot 0 (switches 0, 1, and 2 set to
the
Closed or On position). Detailed instructions start on page 5 of the
AP-8
documentation.


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## JonnyMac (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry to join the discussion late....

The AP-8 is a chipcorder-type product; what we did was added an amplifier and allowed for segmentation of the memory (up to eight segments). You can use the AP-8 with the MiniBrick, but only in basic play mode (play the selected segment). If you want to take advantage of the ability to play multiple segments (assuming you've put multiple sounds into it), you have to do it through software control. It's not difficult, believe me, and we're here to help you every step of the way. If you look through our forums (http://forums.efx-tek.com) you'll see that we do our best to respond -- oftentimes with code -- in very short order.

The reason that the MiniBrick became so popular, I believe, is the "GUI" programming environment of PC*Macs -- well, we've got something like that now, too. The difference is that once you do develop a bit of confidence you can program your Prop-1/Prop-2 normally and take advantage of features simple sequencers (MiniBrick, et al) do not offer. This is like getting an upgradable "brick" for $35 (Prop-1).

This forum post shows how to use the cool freeware program, Vixen, as a GUI programmer for the Prop-1 and Prop-2.
-- http://www.efx-tek.com/php/smf/index.php?topic=140.0

I feel pretty confident that if you asked our customers they'd tell you that they don't regret purchasing our products. We do our best to keep our prices haunter friendly, and beat the big boys at every turn with customer service.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

jonny - thanks for the great info - sounds like you guys are relly working hard to get a great product out to us all - so heres my question...

im doing a haunt - i dont have much time to spare - i have used gilderfluke before with great success - however - i dont have much money to spare either and they seem to hurt me in that catagory - - - so would a noob at programming and electronics be able to work your stuff? ive heard there is apretty big learning curve to overcome - which i wouldnt mind doin like in the offseason - actually i KNOW im gonna try to learn that over this winter - but i was just wondering if you would suggest trying to do simple stuff now and not have to waste too much time learning - i wouldnt need incredibly long sequences - just some simple pop ups with lights and sound possibly - maybe some thrashing action of a few props - thanks for your help! - riley


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## JonnyMac (Apr 5, 2007)

I like to quote Henry Ford:

"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right."

At the risk of sound harsh, the only people who have trouble with our (and similar) products are those that assume they're going to -- attitude affects everything. John B. and I have taught tens of thousands of people to program small controllers (remember, we used to be with Parallax and our products use Parallax micros) so we know that any person who puts in a tiny bit of effort can in fact do it.

Now, we also realize that there is often a time crunch, so we're here to help. I think if nothing else, we offer great customer service. I just received an e-mail from a Disney Imagineering employee asking for a Prop-1 program; it took just a few minutes to write. I'll do that for you too -- all you have to do is look at our forums to see that it's a pretty common event for me to write a customer program to get them going. By doing that in our forums you get a program and others can learn from it, too (so post your specific Prop-1 questions there, not here).

In the end, you can only do so much with a sequencer -- and when it's programmed it will always do the same thing. If you learn just a little about programming you can add randomness to your props which really help them stand out. The cool news is that a Prop-1 and Prop-2 controller can behave like a simple sequencer if you want them to, and when you're ready for more there is no need to buy new product.

If you decide to go with EFX-TEK we're here to help -- whether your programming request is simple or complex, we probably have the experience to handle it.


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## buggybuilder (Jan 23, 2007)

JonnyMac said:


> I like to quote Henry Ford:
> 
> "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right."
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info.... I think I might be going EFX-TEK....even in crunch time. We will be in contact soon. Thanks again.


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

I also have used many Gildefluke products. I really like them but it seems that they are adding more features that I don't need and raising the price. A MiniBrick 8 is now $210.00

I decided to give the prop-1 a try. I admit that there is a learning curve. It will take some time before I am proficient with writing programs. Recently EFX-TEK teamed up with a software called Vixen that allows you to do limited programing using software. It looks very similar to gilderflukes software. You just draw in a timeline. You can program 6 channels with the prop-1 and 14 with the prop-2.

Go to the EFX-TEK website and check it out. You can download the software for free. This is a great way to get started with EFX-TEK controllers. You can't beat the price and the customer service is really good.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

so with this downloadable software - is a simple thrashing type movement - or say a simple pop up basically really simple? the price really is unbeatable - and i dont mind a little work - is it something i could prolly figure out in a few nights if i just played with the software? jim - how long did it take you to get something that will move a prop the way you want it? - sry for all the questions - i just want to get as much info before i start throwin some money around - last thing i want is to buy a few of these and have them still sitting in the box after halloween is over cause i didn't ahve time to learn the program - this does seem to be the route to go though since once it is learned it seems like it can to just as much and more than the other controllers at a fraction of the cost - riley


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

Let me drop my 2 cents here also. Before Midwesthaunters convention 2006 I wouldn't even look at the ParallaxEFX (became efx-tek shortly before then) stuff beacuse you needed a computer to program it, and you needed to learn another programming language (i know too many already when it comes to cnc programming). I sat down with Jon for about an hour that sunday and he taught me everything I needed to know to go home and make two differnt items for our haunt Fright World www.frightworldohio.com that month. Since then anytime I haven't been able to figure something out he has helped me, usually in less than a couple hours. The efx-tek forums have loads of programs that he has already made for other people that probably already do what you need for a basic program, or can have just a couple numbers changed to work. At Midwest Haunters Convention this year I was even turning away some potential sales for my prop controllers and sent them over to Jon and John because the Efx-tek products provided a better solution for what they needed. And now even cooler they have the vixen set up, for people that dont have time to learn the language right now, or just have a lot of ons and offs you can program it on a time line like the pc-macs software. It took me about 15 minutes to set up vixen and spit out my first program with it. Ok, I am done.


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## 1031fan (Feb 6, 2007)

thanks gadget - great post - i think im about sold here...ill have to check out the forum and stuff - download the free software when i get home and play with it - this is prolly showing my noobness here, but what else is there other than the simple on offs in different time intervals and on different channels? thats basically what the minibricks are arent they?


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## gadget-evilusions (Jan 26, 2007)

I am sure Jon will give you a much better answer, but you can also control servos, interface all kinds of different sensors, switches and triggers, you can hook up potentiometers to change timing in your program in real time without changing the program, i love the pulse with modulation (pwm) feature when controlling leds, you can fade them in and out any rate, and probably the greatest feature in existence....RANDOM. You can actually program in to have different parts of your program randomize on each trigger, so that it's not always the exact show everytime a prop or scene is triggered. You can also serially interface with the other efx-tek products, the dc-16 output expander (adds 16 more on/off outputs), the ap-8 sound player, the rc-4 relay board for controlling 110vac loads, and the awesome new FC-4 which is a 4 channel 110v light fader board.


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## Brckee1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey Riley,

Yeah, I agree and concur with everything Brian said.  The vixen software works much like gilderflukes. Just download it and you will figure it out pretty quick. All the info. and instructions are on the EFX-TEK forum. If you can work the software, you can use the controllers. After you draw your program in the software, you export it to the Basic Stamp editor and it writes the code for you. You just load the code into the controller and it's done. It really is simple and it makes this controller something anyone can use.

I am probably going to need to buy more of their products this year too. They have some really amazing stuff already and are always working on new things. This is one company I really want to see succeed.


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## JonnyMac (Apr 5, 2007)

We did the work with Vixen because so many new customers asked us to -- they wanted simple on-and-off events type sequencing; yes, very much like a "brick" sequencer. One could argue that our price beats the big "brick" vendor price to death, and most think our service is pretty good, too.

The real difference is this: Once you get bored with simple sequences and decide to learn a few PBASIC commands (about 12 are all I ever use), you can do just about anything: fade LEDs on and off, move servos, control external devices like our FC-4 fader board, the works -- and you don't have to buy another [control] product to get these cool features. Learning PBASIC is not hard; if you committed to 15-20 minutes a day starting today, you could be creating killer programs like I do in a couple weeks. Its sounds like a lot of time when viewed as one big chunk, but it's really not, and probably less time than you've spent developing other Halloween-related skills (yes, programming is simply a skill and anyone can learn it).



1031fan said:


> thanks gadget - great post - i think im about sold here...ill have to check out the forum and stuff - download the free software when i get home and play with it - this is prolly showing my noobness here, but what else is there other than the simple on offs in different time intervals and on different channels? thats basically what the minibricks are arent they?


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