# flame machine



## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

I was asked by a laser tag field owner to come up with a way to use laser tag guns to fire off pyrotechnics.

This is the (extremely) rough prototype. I hacked the IR targets, running two with the speaker outputs wired in parallel to trigger a relay, which in turn triggers a Maestro, to time the bursts.






Now I just need to make a weatherproof box for the target, (with a transparent target for the face) and a pop-open weatherproof container for the flame cannon, and im good to go.

On a haunted hay ride, you could kill the sound effects of the laser tag gun, and have an operator (like the tractor driver) shoot hidden targets to activate props, rather than have a huge fob of remotes, or actors triggering things. Maybe its not a good idea, dunno, but you could.

The range with the old WOW starlyte phaser gun is about 50 feet, max. With two more targets in the array, and a better gun, Im sure I could shoot it from a long way away.

anyway, something I made today.


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

Oh man! I want a flame shooter!
I've never seen one of those. 
I could have so much fun with that thing.
Good idea Hippo!


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Thanks, Lunatic. You should see the liquid propane cannon. It stops traffic on the road, and everyone in the industrial park comes outside. Awesome, if i time the ignition right. Big air/fuel burst.

I got permission today to make a prototype vortex flame cannon, I want to shoot 20 foot wide fire rings into the air. But that will be a couple months away, I have to make a small one first, see if I can get it to work.


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## Haunted Spider (Sep 6, 2010)

so..... when are you doing a tutorial on the flame cannon?


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

^^^^^
And what are the legalities?


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, you can get the flame machine from china, but you might have to buy a few. And, they are kinda wonky. I do a lot of rework, to the point where I am basically buying the case, the pulse igniter, and the dmx board. Everything in the china flame machines needs to be adjusted or reworked to be reliable. 

I make my own for propane, using just a gutted case. They are way better. But I would honestly be a bit nervous about doing a how to on a pyrotechnic device. I would feel bad if someone got burned, and if you don't have a good grasp of the electronics side of it, it would be really easy to wire a switch wrong and get hurt. 

I don't know. I'll think about it. 

As far as legalities, IF you use the standard low pressure regulators, and an unmodified gas grill propane tank (or the flame machine model with the solenoid fitting for a starter fluid can) then they are fine. Its like a gas grill, its all LP, no legal shenanigans required, from the research Ive done online. But that flame machine is going to make you sad, with its 2 foot flame. Then, you are better off with the starter fluid one, and changing cans more often. At least it puts out a good flame, and I could do a how to on wiring in different switches.


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

I love it but I would be nervous about accidental injury or worse. 
I'll leave that up to you to figure out the technicalities.
Very cool just the same!
Post more when you get the chance. I'm interested in the progress.
You must be the coolest guy in town!
Thanks!


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## Haunted Spider (Sep 6, 2010)

you could always make and sell one in the classifieds  haha


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

Haunted Spider said:


> you could always make and sell one in the classifieds  haha


I'd buy one!


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, I thought it over. I suppose, if you're comfortable with wiring, and LP gas (like, you would install your own furnace ) then it its ok to try to make one of these.

For my part, I was an avionics tech on F-14s in the first gulf war, and I worked with airframes on and off, and worked on private planes for a little while after I got out of the service, and then worked as a contractor for Chrysler, ADM, Nestlé Purina, moving machinery, working on robotic cells, doing structural steel, a lot of confined space work and certified welding in hazardous atmospheres, so I'm ok with UEL and LEL's, and I've had lots of OSHA training and certifications (which doesn't mean much, really, just classes) and I'm a Seimens Whestinghouse and G.E. certified gas turbine technician. I used to travel, A LOT!

Anyway, all that up there is just to say, I'm pretty comfortable working with all this stuff, and I really try not to get complacent with the little things, because I want to die a bitter, old man. You don't need to be any kind of technician, just please know when to say "I just don't have the experience to try this" and it should be fine.

I will have to youtube a vid of the parts, with a voice explanation. I can't get separate photos to work. If only there were a class for that, lol. I'd be golden.

I'll edit in the vid in a bit, from the pc.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, I tried to edit, and it kept showing up blank, and it made me nervous, so I will put it here.


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

Looks like you have all the right training and experience Hippo.
You have the ability to take this type of entertaiment to a level most shouldn't consider indulging. That's what makes it so exciting. You go with your bad self!
Can't wait to see more. Thanks for sharing!


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Lunatic,

Training, yes. Experience, yes, even licenses and certificates. But... I still have a lot to learn. You never stop learning. I have lit the shop on fire. Not a big fire, I have made bigger (Im famous at Sterling Steel and Wire, lol) but it happens. I just want to stress, you don't have to be an expert, but you really do need a firm grasp of the fundamentals. Its just LP, its propane, it needs oxygen to burn, so it wont back-burn into the lines like acetylene will, you don't have to have back-flow preventers in the line, but its still plenty hot. The worst case scenarios are plugging in the cannon, with the switches already on (I will cover that, and the fix) and the propane valves open. Then you get burned. Or, someone trips on the hoses, and the cannon falls over and aims at the tank. Also, to be avoided. I will cover that, too.

But boy, if you do it right, you get giant flame columns, like movie effects, and its cheap and pretty safe. Fun, fun, fun.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, here it is basically built. Nothing to it, really.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Here it is outside, with a standard propane tank nut on it. It doesn't show in the video, but the nut itself actually holds pressure in the line after it is disconnected from the tank. It shuts everything off.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Here it is, from start to finish, about 2 hours to making flames. Its really basic. Later, I will check and see whats getting hot, what needs to be tweeked, and make a nice, weatherproof case. And, make some fogger remote switches, so you can use remotes, a Maestro, a Picoboo, a Frightimer, whatever you want.

The propane is just better, and you get hundreds and hundreds of shots from 1 tank.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

I have an arthritic back, and holy cow do I walk like it. lol. No wonder I am camera shy!


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

A car stopped, and asked what I was doing. I told them what I do for a living.


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

Wow Hippofeet!! Definitely an attention getter. 
Crazy cool fun stuff.


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## Haunted Spider (Sep 6, 2010)

That was pretty cool. Bigger flames than what I would want. If I did it, I would definitely have to leave the regulator in, although that was very cool.


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## fritz42_male (May 5, 2009)

Nice work! If you tried one of these in Aus without all the licenses you'd be arrested and put away.

I've been toying with the idea of vertical foggers for a similar effect like the Chauvet Geyser.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Dqwq5PO03tI&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Dqwq5PO03tI

Not the same impact obviously but much safer in my hands.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

I looked up all the Wisconsin laws, regarding pyrotechnic/flame displays, and the only permit required is if I do a display for an audience (like at a game, or some such) which I am not doing. I need to store the fuel separate from the machines (I do) and I need to have some basic fire firefighting things on hand (fire blanket, extinguisher) which I also have. Im going to go ahead and get a low explosive rated magazine to hold the individual fuel canisters, and Ill put the propane tanks and Co2 cylinders in some stands I will make. That will make me more than legal here, and the fire safety inspector will smile upon me. But as far as the law goes, its no different from a weed burner, at least here where I am.

I will do a vid of an air pressure regulator on the tank, or a welding regulator ( which would go to a much higher psi than needed) to make the flame adjustable. I think I might set up 3 or 4 of them in parking lot, and time up a display on a controller.

it would be super easy to stand pretty much any old fogger upright, and use some cheapo led's in a ring, to get the effect. You would still want a fogger with decent output. Hmmm. IM pretty sure they make weatherproof LED rings that go over the output of small pond fountains. Not sure about the cost, but it cant be hard to make.


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## Haunted Spider (Sep 6, 2010)

If you put together the whole assembly, minus the stand it is attached to, but with all the solenoids, and spark stuff and hose hook ups attached, I would definitely buy one. I can mount it to a stand easy enough and supply my own LP, but getting the rest right, would be a bit above my level of comfort. I love the idea though. I actually wanted to make a flame spitter for a dragon head. I thought that would be awesome. Anyway, Keep the fun videos coming.


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## BIGANT (Jul 13, 2010)

I need to stop looking at the flame cannons because now I gotta have one!!!!


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## fontgeek (Jul 24, 2006)

For as dry as it's been in Ohio (and many other states), I'd be really hesitant to use real fire in a haunt. I'd also talk to your insurance company to see if and what they will cover.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

LOL. They are super fun. I get stopped traffic, people pulling in to talk to me, sometimes crowds, just when I test. I can go a little bigger yet, before I get into high pressure powdered or liquid bursts. That would be the easy way to go really big, but I would certainly get called on it.

What Im doing now is still in the realm of ok, IMO, and even if you needed a permit where you are, you could get one running LP gas, without a pyrotechnic technician on hand. Usually. A lot depends on what you know, and your local regulations. 

Like here, I need a permit to do public displays, even running the propane. But not for testing, since our parking lot is not a public venue. For a public display, my Resume would be submitted as the pyrotechnic technician. Its not a state certification process, it seems like its a judgement call for the city. Here.

If I was making matches, though, holy cow. Regulation city! But, look into it. Its a weird thing, and its not common, so there can be confusion. And some localities don't seem to regulate flame machines at all, only fireworks. 

I think if you are doing small stuff, like from a starter fluid can, and you have an extinguisher and some planning, you would be fine, IMO. 30 or 40 feet tall flame columns, and timed to do detonations of the air/fuel mixture, I would err on the side of caution, and look into permiting. I mean, lets be real, that's going to freak someone out.


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## scarybill (Oct 7, 2012)

Fantastic effect, 
could you provide a list of parts you used? I really have to have one


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## scarybill (Oct 7, 2012)

BTW, im just down the road to the south of you


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, the first problem is the Pulse Igniter. The ones you want are from china, they are already set up, but you may need to order a few.

I haven't really had to use anything else, igniter-wise, I already had the ones I am using.

But just a part list, here goes:

Chinese LP gas furnace/stove igniter http://www.haodongheater.com/pid11890111/GM-103+Pulse+Igniter.htm

1 AC on off switch, look for one that has spade connectors on the back, you will need to wire several things to this one switch.

One 1/2 inch AC solenoid. Pricey, but smaller doesn't really cut it.

One 1/4 solenoid, AC coil.

1 20 foot (hopefully) LP rated hose.

A non regulated gas grill propane tank fitting.

A 1/2 NPT to 3/8 flare fitting.

Some 1/4 inch NPT nipples, and adapters to make the hose work on the propane tank.

Pipe thread tape.

A grill propane tank, and a smaller throw away propane bottle. Igniters don't to like to ignite the liquid propane, you need the smaller bottle, and smaller solenoid, to pre-ignite, then set off the liquid propane.

A 1/2 inch solenoid muffler, the flat ones. The coned ones spray the propane too much to the side.

Some sort of body, or case, that is metal. You could just weld up what I made, or something similar, but really, the only limit is your imagination.

A power cord, that is going to wire into your switch. I would REALLY get a fogger pendant switch that will run AC. Basically, you want to NOT be able to set off the flame cannon, if you are within like 5 feet, at least. If you wire in a long extension cord to the switch, then you can use it.

Im at work right now, so I will look at this tonight. I will PM you later.

Just down the road to the south? Monroe? Maybe Orangeville? When I get the parts in, you could just come up to the shop. On a weeknight, I would have no problem showing you how its all put together.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Im starting to wonder if this should go under how-to's, but I don't think the videos are in depth enough. Mods, its up to you, move if you feel the need.

Two vids on the flame cannon: timing, and some safety.











tonight I will shoot some vid of the timed flame, and see what kind of result I get.

I want to make a REALLY burning witch scene soooo bad. First, I love classic Halloween stuff, and witches are my number one. Second, it would be so easy to set up a flame bar ring with this thing. I think I could put a large fan under the witch prop to prevent it burning, and have awesome huge flames around her.

Ahhh, well. We will see...


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## scarybill (Oct 7, 2012)

Hippofeet, I am in Janesville. That would be fantastic if you could do that. I will send you a private message with my number


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## Lunatic (Oct 3, 2006)

Waiting patiently for additional videos....Keep'em coming Hippofeet.
It's like building a Frankenstein monster!
We appreciate your effort and sharing your knowledge.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

I built all the same parts as last time into an old fogger case. It just looks better than the open skeleton flame shooter I did for the tutorial.


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## Dead Things (Apr 4, 2009)

I am on this site multiple times a day. How the H-E double hockey sticks did I miss this???? Hippo, I am a licensed pyrotech and have been wanting to build something like this for the last couple of years but the cost seemed prohibitive, as my senior pyrotech had built some of these and the cost was several hundred dollars just for the guts. I would love to turn my smoking gargoyles into flame throwing gargoyles (however, I am sure the ToTs would appreciate if the jaws were pointing up, not down, and also there's that whole pesky thing that the gargoyles are made from paper mache and fiberglass resin. Details, details). We have really strict rules regarding pyrotechnics in this city ($25,000 fine if a made guy like me gets caught shooting without proper permits, and it is tough to get permits). However, propane pyro does not fall under those regulations, so .....


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

True. Some places dont regulate propane, its a low pressure gas. For a public flame display here in town, the permit is the same as for a firework (pyrotechnic) display. 250 dollars. I can TEST all I want, I have already been over it with the fire inspector. Although I am NOT a pyrotechnics tech, I do have an OSHA 16 and 32 hour, and some experience, with hazardous materials, and I am working as one now. (I also make flash cotton, and flash powder, and those are considered low explosives). Come time to do a public display, I should be ok, depending on how long they want me to have been on the job (there is no licensing here in WI).

If you PM me, Dead Things, We can go over the cost for a kit. It was sort of an iffy thing, we were worried about liability if we sold a kit to someone and they got hurt. But, if you are already into Pyrotechnics...

Cost? Less than several hundred dollars. It all depends on what you can find yourself, parts wise, and how long you can wait to get them. The builds are really easy, straightforward wiring, and safe since you can test without the propane.

The flame cannon I am firing in the videos is always made of the same parts, and runs around 200, but that is pre-assembled and ready to install in something.

The hardest thing to get your hands on is that 18KV transformer igniter, and the spark gap probes. Once you have that, you can pick and choose your solenoid, pilot set-up, case, and trigger. I can totally see doing it under a hundred dollars, it would just take more time to find the stuff.

Ill be setting up a display with 3 flame cannons, and an upshot fog machine, done to music (with a controller) next week. I will try to get some vid.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

I should add, I HOPE they consider what Im doing to be working in some sort of pyrotechnic field. Im not making any fireworks, and since there is no licensing, its really hard to say. Personaly, I think the law here is talking about bonfires when it says flame display. But Im sure the propane devices fall under it somehow. I still don't think it would matter for a small one at a home haunt, but for big displays at a pro venue, I think it would. But then, you could easily afford the permit fee.

I keep picturing a flame organ, that shoots flames when it plays. Im probably just tired.


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## Halloween FX Props (Jul 14, 2013)

Hippofeet, you are doing great work!


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## scarybill (Oct 7, 2012)

I was invited to stop and see Hippofeet at HalloweenFX tonight. What a great time it was talking to him and checking out the stuff. I have to say, that flame blaster is fantastic! What a good guy and a gracious host. He answered questions, showed me his toys, and even provided refreshments. I want to give a big thanks to you. And after seeing the flame blaster I want one more than ever(OK, I want three). Thanks again


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Hey, no problem Bill. I had fun, and it was nice to meet you. Sorry I took so long to respond to your post, I haven't been online much for a few days. Good luck with your project, and I will talk to the Big Cheese when he gets back from Canada. But I think it's going to happen.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Finally! I got the aluminum housing welded up, and the flame cannon redesigned, to be weatherproof. I will find out in a bit just how weatherproof, by hitting it with the hose while I run a flame test. Still not firing off the laser tag target, the voltage at the speaker is NOT 5 volts, oh factory engineer guru who showed me the schematics, it is 1.5VDC, so now even though I don't bench build boards, ever, ever, never, I am building a relay board. Thanks for that.

Anyway, a video.


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## Hippofeet (Nov 26, 2012)

Still needs some work, and I would like to maybe change the main nozzle, the wind affected it too much.


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## BIGANT (Jul 13, 2010)

Great work so far! Love the aluminum box for it


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